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Old 21-04-2015, 04:56   #76
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Re: Sailing qualifications usefulness

Quote:
Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
I am not talking about professional qualifications for commercial operation. I am talking about
people doing courses to advance their learning in what is a hobby.

This would include the likes of RYA , ASA and others " certification "
Dave
I think your disagreement has to do with the way you are using the therm qualification. You are use it with the same meaning as certification and that is not correct even if many people confuse the meanings of the two words.

Being qualified too means having the necessary skills, knowledge and training to perform a given function or task adequately and safely, in this case, sailing and navigation.

If for doing leisure sailing and navigation there is the need or a mandatory qualification and the correspondent mandatory certification (licence) is an altogether different matter. It is also a different matter to know if someone having a non mandatory school qualification course has any advantages to submit himself to an examination to get a certification.

In this case my opinion is that the examination that lead to the certification is an adequate way to control if really one has dominated or not the needed skills, Knowledge and experience for that qualification and more then for anything else it should be important to the sailor that is qualifying himself. That represents not his opinion regarding having reached the designated standards of proficiency but an outside and more knowledgeable opinion regarding that.

The need to have a mandatory certification and licence to perform a given activity has nothing to do with it being done professionally or as an hobby but with the social need to regulate social life and activity in a safe and responsible way to all.

Regarding the need of a mandatory certificate or a licence for recreational sailing most countries find it necessary, others not but that has nothing to do if qualifications are useful for sailing or not.

Asking if qualifications are useful for sailing is the same to ask if someone having the skills, knowledge and experience to do it well and safely is useful for sailing. The qualifications can be certified or not. Again, a completely different subject.
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Old 21-04-2015, 09:21   #77
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Re: Sailing qualifications usefulness

Quote:
Originally Posted by Polux View Post
I think your disagreement has to do with the way you are using the therm qualification. You are use it with the same meaning as certification and that is not correct even if many people confuse the meanings of the two words.
This came up already, from the link you supplied....

Quote:
qualification :Capacity, knowledge, or skill that matches or suits an occasion, or makes someone eligible for a duty...

What is qualification? definition and meaning
Further down shows the ambiguity of the definition..

Quote:
Qualification denotes fitness for purpose through fulfillment of necessary conditions such as attainment of a certain age, taking of an oath, completion of required schooling or training, or acquisition of a degree or diploma. Qualification does not necessarily imply competence.
Perhaps there is a better word to use, Qualification is too ambiguous and not limited to your definition.
Seamanship comes to mind..
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Old 21-04-2015, 11:01   #78
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Re: Sailing qualifications usefulness

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Originally Posted by conachair View Post
This came up already, from the link you supplied....

Quote:
Qualification denotes fitness for purpose through fulfillment of necessary conditions such as attainment of a certain age, taking of an oath, completion of required schooling or training, or acquisition of a degree or diploma. Qualification does not necessarily imply competence.

Further down shows the ambiguity of the definition..


Perhaps there is a better word to use, Qualification is too ambiguous and not limited to your definition.
Seamanship comes to mind..
I am not giving "my" definition, I gave several from several dictionaries. There is very few words that have a very precise meaning. Normally when a word has several meanings a dictionary list them by order of relevance and you have utilized from the definition given on one of the several links I posted, the less relevant, the ones that comes after this:

" Qualification: Capacity, knowledge, or skill that matches or suits an occasion, or makes someone eligible for a duty, office, position, privilege, or status. "

Read more: What is qualification? definition and meaning

So there is no doubt that the the qualification is the capacity, knowledge or skill needed to to something and, from what you have posted from the same link: "Qualification denotes fitness for purpose through fulfillment of necessary conditions"

Besides I have not posted only that definition but several from some well know dictionaries and one of them is one of the best regarding the English Language, the Merriam-Webster that gives as more relevant meaning: "a special skill or type of experience or knowledge that makes someone suitable to do a particular job or activity"

Sure, there are always derived meanings, a language is not something that is but something that is changing all the time and in that sense qualification is also refereed as what one needs to be officially qualified for being legally able to perform some job or doing something like the "completion of required schooling or training, or acquisition of a degree or diploma" and it is on that derived sense that a "qualification does not necessarily imply competence".
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Old 21-04-2015, 11:12   #79
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Re: Sailing qualifications usefulness

Quote:
Originally Posted by Polux View Post
I think your disagreement has to do with the way you are using the therm qualification. You are use it with the same meaning as certification and that is not correct even if many people confuse the meanings of the two words.

Being qualified too means having the necessary skills, knowledge and training to perform a given function or task adequately and safely, in this case, sailing and navigation.

If for doing leisure sailing and navigation there is the need or a mandatory qualification and the correspondent mandatory certification (licence) is an altogether different matter. It is also a different matter to know if someone having a non mandatory school qualification course has any advantages to submit himself to an examination to get a certification.

In this case my opinion is that the examination that lead to the certification is an adequate way to control if really one has dominated or not the needed skills, Knowledge and experience for that qualification and more then for anything else it should be important to the sailor that is qualifying himself. That represents not his opinion regarding having reached the designated standards of proficiency but an outside and more knowledgeable opinion regarding that.

The need to have a mandatory certification and licence to perform a given activity has nothing to do with it being done professionally or as an hobby but with the social need to regulate social life and activity in a safe and responsible way to all.

Regarding the need of a mandatory certificate or a licence for recreational sailing most countries find it necessary, others not but that has nothing to do if qualifications are useful for sailing or not.

Asking if qualifications are useful for sailing is the same to ask if someone having the skills, knowledge and experience to do it well and safely is useful for sailing. The qualifications can be certified or not. Again, a completely different subject.
This is english semantic nit picking , The terms qualification and certification are used interchangeably in education and professional training. IN general however certification means that some form of recognisable proof of " qualification " exists.


It matters not, I stand behind the view that in a voluntary leisure hobby, its the learning that counts not the certification.
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Old 21-04-2015, 11:42   #80
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Re: Sailing qualifications usefulness

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Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
...

It matters not, I stand behind the view that in a voluntary leisure hobby, its the learning that counts not the certification.
It is always the learning that counts. A certificate is only a piece of paper (that if the examination is serious) attests that you have learned the standards of that course and are qualified.
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Old 21-04-2015, 18:54   #81
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Re: Sailing qualifications usefulness

I've lost the direction of the discussion between you two. I think you both have very valid arguments, in fact I think you are arguing nearly the same point.

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