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Old 27-08-2015, 19:42   #76
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Re: Sailing presentation and statistics on women sailboat owners

The problem I have with those type of gender behavioural statements is that it does not inspire change and ironically reinforces them.

I believe that women are more open to discussing their fears, than men... so perhaps those gender assumptions are flawed.....

Many, many timid men out there who hide their fears (sometimes with bravado).... and if true that women have a higher pain threshold than men...... Theoretically, they should perform better in the same trauma emergency?

My focus would be more on the Carly Fiorina's of this world who ignored bias and blazed their own trail.
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Old 28-08-2015, 01:07   #77
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Re: Sailing presentation and statistics on women sailboat owners

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The problem I have with those type of gender behavioural statements is that it does not inspire change and ironically reinforces them.

I believe that women are more open to discussing their fears, than men... so perhaps those gender assumptions are flawed.....

Many, many timid men out there who hide their fears (sometimes with bravado).... and if true that women have a higher pain threshold than men...... Theoretically, they should perform better in the same trauma emergency?

My focus would be more on the Carly Fiorina's of this world who ignored bias and blazed their own trail.
I respect that. But can you prove this statement?

What I am presenting is based on actual studies that suggest why it is so hard for many women to overcome these influences. The presentation is not how to become the next Carly Fiorina, who is the very pinnacle of all women executives - an extremely difficult position to achieve -- but to find ways to overcome their own inherent biases and self-doubt, and be the person who can sail with confidence. I've seen some of these women take years to muster enough courage to get checked out as a skipper on our Cal20s, and still not one them would consider going out on their own even though we have an Impulse 21 that is ideal for single-handing. Nor are they at the point where they can relate to the exploits of Ellen MacArthur, so I feel it is important that they understand that: 1) there's a larger, cultural reason why so few women are on the water, and 2) their current skill level is a very significant achievement indeed. And also if I can do it, then so can they
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Old 28-08-2015, 04:35   #78
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Re: Sailing presentation and statistics on women sailboat owners

Gamayun,
Off course there is a larger "cultural reason" why the genders think and act differently in society. Humans seem to be sort of schizo about gender related to what each can do, should do and so forth.

It all begins with pink and blue and the "difference" are imprinted by parents who accept social and cultural memes.

In an enlightened progressive society and way of thinking we know that each individual is inherently different, each is made unique by the circumstance of their up bringing and the cultural memes are a major driver.

The differences are seen not only in sailing... but in every single genre and niche, industry and so forth. Clearly many see how artificial these imposed values are... and feminists, for example have rightfully demanded that they be treated equally and have the same opportunities as men because in most things the difference in "biology" don't amount to a hill of beans.

Women are perfectly capable of sailing, being an astronaut or the president of the USA. The only thing stopping them is the present cultural zeitgeist and their willingness to submit to it in many cases. And truth be told... many women are perfectly OK with pink... as are men with blue.

Things are changing... but it will be many generations before the biases disappear, if ever.
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Old 28-08-2015, 05:36   #79
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Re: Sailing presentation and statistics on women sailboat owners

G'day,

I have been cruising on and off for more than 35 years and I'm currently halfway through a circumnavigation. I'm glad someone is attempting to quantify gender ownership. Perhaps there is another view to take into consideration. That is joint ownership. I have met hundreds of cruising couples from all nationalities and from dozens of different countries. Some are married, some are not. As to who owns the vessel? I wouldn't have a clue! There is also yet another view which could be considered. Ownership by name only for alternate reasons. Tax, security from other parties, etc.

Have I made it even harder for you?... Sorry

James
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Old 28-08-2015, 10:04   #80
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Re: Sailing presentation and statistics on women sailboat owners

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G'day,

I have been cruising on and off for more than 35 years and I'm currently halfway through a circumnavigation. I'm glad someone is attempting to quantify gender ownership. Perhaps there is another view to take into consideration. That is joint ownership. I have met hundreds of cruising couples from all nationalities and from dozens of different countries. Some are married, some are not. As to who owns the vessel? I wouldn't have a clue! There is also yet another view which could be considered. Ownership by name only for alternate reasons. Tax, security from other parties, etc.

Have I made it even harder for you?... Sorry

James
Nope. Not harder. It's semantics, really.

I had originally started this post as an add-on to an existing post on Sailnet in which the title was something like, "how many women own their boat." Many married couples chimed in. The point that I was trying to get at, but which I did not articulate well because I was mixing metaphors, is how many women (single or married or coupled) truly "own" their boat in the sense that, for example, they could sail it with complete newbies, diagnose an issue, know how everything works, etc. This is all but impossible to answer with any reasonable level of confidence. Nevertheless, it is a start to the conversation, and I think if one were to look into the demographics of CF, you might find that 60% are single males or males whose spouse does not sail/boat with them, 30% are couples whether in marital bliss or not, and 10% are single women or women whose spouse does not sail/boat with them -- at least based on my intuition! (And since I'm female, I must have good intuition, right
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Old 28-08-2015, 10:59   #81
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Re: Sailing presentation and statistics on women sailboat owners

hahahahaha....
Your intuition will be skewed because sailing positive and communication people will join and participate in sites like this and sailnet... a site I am not even sure I've been too.
I am on this one to learn, and share some of my own experience... and maybe meet up with someone when we are in the same place. Why not?
Own is completely the wrong word.
Our marital property is shared. My wife can't drive a car.... and she can't operate a boat. But she technically owns it as my partner.
I think this may be more extreme because many females will adapt, and learn from their SOs and some will go for it on their own or... carry on after the SO has departed. I know one couple where the female got the boat and they had a little marine business together too.. And she went on to live aboard, teach and work in the industry.
But face it... in this culture boys have mechanical toys. But I see lots of young girls learning to sail... so maybe things will be different in the future... or maybe they will cover shoes and clothes and picket fences... more. Hard to know.
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Old 28-08-2015, 11:08   #82
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Re: Sailing presentation and statistics on women sailboat owners

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hahahahaha....
Your intuition will be skewed because sailing positive and communication people will join and participate in sites like this and sailnet... a site I am not even sure I've been too.
I am on this one to learn, and share some of my own experience... and maybe meet up with someone when we are in the same place. Why not?
Own is completely the wrong word.
Our marital property is shared. My wife can't drive a car.... and she can't operate a boat. But she technically owns it as my partner.
I think this may be more extreme because many females will adapt, and learn from their SOs and some will go for it on their own or... carry on after the SO has departed. I know one couple where the female got the boat and they had a little marine business together too.. And she went on to live aboard, teach and work in the industry.
But face it... in this culture boys have mechanical toys. But I see lots of young girls learning to sail... so maybe things will be different in the future... or maybe they will cover shoes and clothes and picket fences... more. Hard to know.
I think those growing up today are even more likely to want both or neither or perhaps something completely unconventional (a one-way trip to Mars, maybe?)...because their decisions will not be so predestined for them

Here's something to ponder - why are the tags on this post: men, sail, sailboat, sailing?
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Old 28-08-2015, 11:25   #83
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Re: Sailing presentation and statistics on women sailboat owners

Not that it matters gamayum, but the first statistic you would have to clarify about CF members is:
How many actually own a boat?

I am all about inspiring anyone (regardless of gender) to maximize their interest in watersports.

I actually made a rewarding career out of it and found that gender stereotypes mattered far less than personal desire to excel once they had gotten over their initial confidence hump.

Of those whom I had mentored, I admired the most .... the success of sailing minorities , be it racial, gender, physically or mentally impaired and abused etc....

I always knew that I was just a useful tool and witness on their determined road to success, many who then became my mentor.

During storm conditions at sea, gender has never played a role on who was the most dependable. It was all about desire and a stubborn commitment to not succumb to fear and seasickness

Often those minorities excelled because they already had developed that toughness.
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Old 28-08-2015, 11:31   #84
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Re: Sailing presentation and statistics on women sailboat owners

I'm sure you already know about this book. It might be useful for your audience. It's Your Boat Too, A Woman's Guide to Greater Enjoyment, by Suzanne Giesemann.

http://www.amazon.com/Its-Your-Boat-...+your+boat+too


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Old 28-08-2015, 11:39   #85
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Re: Sailing presentation and statistics on women sailboat owners

Pelagic, I completely agree. This is the message I convey in the rest of my presentation: "get over that hump, then you'll have fun while challenging yourself."

Tayana, great suggestion! I just bought this book. Someone had mentioned it earlier and it's waiting for me at the post office right now. I expedited the shipping so I would have it in time for tomorrow's presentation because props are always nice to have with a talk.

Thanks everyone! Wish me luck
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Old 29-08-2015, 01:40   #86
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Re: Sailing presentation and statistics on women sailboat owners

Really interesting question you are asking!

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Thanks. I had come across this page. Yet this number (if they were all boat owners) is less than 5% of the lower range of my estimate, and I am sure not all sailors are on FB either. .
The Fb page is pretty international too. Maybe majority US but with a large percentage of other anglophones.
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Old 29-08-2015, 13:22   #87
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Re: Sailing presentation and statistics on women sailboat owners

Gamayun,

Well, today's the day! Good luck. Have fun, too.

If you come back here, I had a few thoughts about risk aversion and women who sail with their husbands and who married before becoming sailors. I think perceived risk is heightened when one is afraid also of losing the support of one's partner. (The fear compounds.) Usually one partner is more the leader than the other one. Wherever there is a teacher/pupil or leader/follower relationship, there often is a one up, one down setting.

So, if you have someone who thinks there might be danger (something to be afraid of) in sailing, if you can separate that one from the partner for the teaching, you can minimize theri fear. You can ease the situation by teaching leaders together and followers together, and do both a favor. I'd imagine they could self-select groups, too. What's difficult is placing the people who switch back between positions, sometimes leader, sometimes follower. Put them with the leaders, I think, if they'll let you.

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Old 29-08-2015, 21:57   #88
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Re: Sailing presentation and statistics on women sailboat owners

Thanks, Ann! I always enjoy reading your posts here. That is a great suggestion and the reason for our women's sailing program.

It turned out to be a GREAT day. We had 15 women in the Inaugural "Take the Tiller" workshop. I was one of the "facilitators" (instructors). There were 3 women on my boat. I could see definite progress just in a half day on the water from initial timidity about what they were doing, to leaning all in as we got around to the last skill, which was a race for each skipper (in which, ahem, we took first, second, and first). Then my talk that evening went really well. I was trying to rush a little to get through in the time allotted, which was 30 min instead of the 45 I initially thought I'd have, so I missed a few stories, but everyone seemed to enjoy it. I got some nice feedback afterwards.

This site is such a fantastic resource, too, in my learning process. I receive a tremendous amount of support and input from the people here. So thanks to everyone
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