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Old 21-12-2015, 10:50   #61
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Re: Sailing NORTH along California coast

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Originally Posted by Don C L View Post
So this is just for those motoring the whole way?
I'd motor the whole way unless you had really strong southerlies. Tacking to windward and any kind of sea state allow almost no forward progress when sailing north, and those port tacks will be toward a lee shore unless you're a ways offshore, which would then take a long time to run for shelter, if that was desired. As others have said, I suggest choosing wisely on your weather windows, making sure you have a solid motor with sufficient fuel, and making long (2-day) hops between ports to reassess weather and refuel/recover, if needed.
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Old 21-12-2015, 11:01   #62
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Re: Sailing NORTH along California coast

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This doesn't need to become a "which is bigger" contest. You both sound like competent sailors. I too have spent 3-4 days tacking to get from the Columbia to the Straits, but more often it is about 30-40 hours.
Relax and watch the snow. It will be summer before you know it.
Tacoma, why don't you stop at the river? It really is not bad if you know when to go over the bank, and we have great Tai food. I think it's easier than Grey's Harbor.
With all due respect, take your head out of your (blank). The OP is a first timer asking about advice regarding sailing north of SF. We are giving him advice based on our experiences. To offer your pap of smooth sailing is both irresponsible and potentially deadly. Folks need to know what to prepare for and the hazards they face so they can prepare accordingly. Evidently you are rather cavalier with others' lives.
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Old 21-12-2015, 11:38   #63
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Re: Sailing NORTH along California coast

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With all due respect, take your head out of your (blank). The OP is a first timer asking about advice regarding sailing north of SF. We are giving him advice based on our experiences. To offer your pap of smooth sailing is both irresponsible and potentially deadly. Folks need to know what to prepare for and the hazards they face so they can prepare accordingly. Evidently you are rather cavalier with others' lives.
reed1v:

I agree that a rational account of what to expect is what is needed. However, insulting people does not encourage them to change their mind, and nor does it serve to convince others.

Furthermore, boats vary considerably in their capacities to go to windward against the prevailing current. Without meaning to denegrate your choice of vessel, the Westsail 43 was not blessed with great windward capacity. So I'd say that your experience of little distance made good should serve as a warning for the OP. I'd also say that Tacoma Sailor's figures were perhaps a little optimistic, but may be valid because his personal experience is as valid as mine or yours, and all the other guys who ply this route.

There is an issue hiding in here, too, and it has to do with how we relate to weather and how schedules affect us. So, for the OP, when you are planning your traveling, and assuming that you prefer to sail, rather than motor, there will be times when what makes sense in terms of the weather will be for you to do overnighters. My experience is that you do what you have to do, but you will need rest. Big seas and plenty wind is both exciting and physically tiring. By comparison, a week long passage allows you to get into your watch schedule, and gives the weather time to change. I would suggest your having at least one crew for this trip, as well. There's too much traffic for "safe" singlehanded watch keeping, especially for someone with little experience. Do not base your plan on the expectation of successful motoring; plan to use the sails, and the engine for getting into harbors, if that's what you need to do. Sometimes you get a favorable break with the weather, and you should be prepared to jump on it.

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Old 21-12-2015, 11:46   #64
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Re: Sailing NORTH along California coast

I don't think s/v Beth's post was "pap."

Here's what I remember from it:

Columbia River to San Juan de Fuca Straits has taken 3-4 days, "good trips" 30-40 hrs.

A warning about Grey's Hbr. not being as easy as some think it is.

A caution to allow oneself to "go with the flow", take advantage of weather when possible, and accept whatever it gives you.

Sounds more like good sense than "pap".

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Old 21-12-2015, 13:45   #65
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Re: Sailing NORTH along California coast

These discussions are so interesting because we each come to them with a lot of personal experience, bias, expectations, and lack of knowledge. The comments about my "NM and hours" from port to port going north showed me that I had made several undocumented assumptions and came to conclusions that were based on many years of experience that might be quite different than others.

I can see why some found my comments odd - my underlying assumptions were:

1) no sane sailor in a small boat (less than 60' / 25-tons) would willingly sail north along the US West Coast. once north of Point Arenas. UNLESS they had favorable SE to S to SW winds and cooperative seas.

2) Those conditions are quite rare and short lived

3) Few of us have infinite time and cannot sit in Brookings, Coos Bay, or anywhere else for weeks at a time waiting for a pleasant sailing window.

4) Motoring WNW will be necessary except for the rare few with a fast boat and favorable winds / seas

I base those assumptions on:

- thousands of hours of trying to sail against adverse Puget Sound tides and winds while tacking 15-times to make a few miles.

- two sailing trips NW along the outside of Vancouver Island. On one trip we sailed WNW until we were 85 NM offshore while trying to beat into 7' seas and NNW 15 knots of wind for 30-hours. We eventually gave up and beat back to shore, making 25 NM to the good from where we left the shore to where we returned to the shore.

- An attempt to sail from Neah Bay to Tofino in WNW 15-knots and 20' rollers. There were not breaking seas but the rollers were enormous. We would lose all wind in the trough and then be suddenly exposed cresting the swell and just race down the other side. Five hours of that, being scared to death at times convinced me to turn on the motor, make the scariest gype of my life and motor back to Neah Bay.

- many sailing/delivery trips NW from San Diego to Catalina, Newport, Long Beach, LA, Ventura in boats from 32' to 55'. Even the nicest sailing new, big, fast 55' sloop was hard work going WNW into those 6' seas and 15-knot wind

- two 900-mile delivery trips from Cabo San Lucas to San Diego. They convinced me that trying to pound into 6' head seas with 15-knot winds for 12-hours a day was a losing proposition.

With that background - it seems logical to me that 90% of the time going north would be under power so why not determine the time needed by using a straight line route?

We all make choices based on our past experience, or at least how we remember that past experience. My foggy memory is that heading WNW anywhere from Cabo San Lucas to Cape Scott on the NW tip of Vancouver Island will be a motorboat ride, and a not so nice one at that.

If I had had more positive and pleasant sailing experiences headed NW along the North American West Coast I would probably have different expectations.

Therefore, I am sure others probably have different experiences and expectations and they are as valid as mine.
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Old 21-12-2015, 14:51   #66
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Re: Sailing NORTH along California coast

Reed, with all due respect, you have mentioned once, maybe twice traversing Cape Flattery and no experience traversing the Columbia bank. I have now been around the Cape a dozen times, and have experienced large swells and gales offshore, usually coming upon us despite a clear weather window.
Now I agree that my boat was designed to go to windward in such conditions, and my experiences may not have been as frustrating as yours, but to call my experience useless and yours important smacks of ethnocentrism.
The OP was not going to take our experiences and expect the same as far as I can tell. He was just asking for people who had actually made the trip and their impressions, that is why I contributed.
No reason to be angry, just a group of old salts comparing notes, and seeing whose boat is bigger.
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Old 21-12-2015, 15:44   #67
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Re: Sailing NORTH along California coast

Here is a slightly different take on this trip.

I was delivering a 70-ft gun / patrol boat (the military type) from Cuba to Seattle as deck cargo on my container ship (295-ft) during February.

The cradle that the gunboat was on was a really flimsy aluminum one - it actually was just a storage yard cradle. If a seagull farted within 50-miles of the ship, the whole thing would have blown apart.

So weather and seas were critically important. As luck would have it, I had 5 lows come in towards the coast, one after another, spaced about 3 to 4 days apart.

I adjusted speed (our max speed was only 13-knots) so that we rode the bottom and starboard side of each of the lows - so that we had the wind and seas from each low pushing us the entire time. Winds were 5 to 15-kts, seas were 1 to 6-ft the entire way.

I had a weather fax so were able to plot/plan ahead for each of the lows.
About 40-miles from the entrance we ran into some rougher weather, but the cradle held up and we got in OK.

So lessons learned: watch the weather like a hawk, get 1,3 and 5 day print outs and have bail out anchorages plotted and planned for. And keep your fingers crossed that you get slowly approaching low pressure systems!
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Old 22-12-2015, 08:33   #68
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Re: Sailing NORTH along California coast

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Originally Posted by TacomaSailor View Post
A couple observations:

Noyo River to Eureka 95 NM
Eureka to Brookings 76 NM
Brookings to Coos Bay 99 NM
Coos Bay to Newport 78 NM
Newport to Westport 140 NM
Westport to Neah Bay 114 NM

Assume you can make 4 knots into the swell and wind waves (if you can't you probably should not be out there!) the only legs that are more than 24-hours are the northern two at 35 hours and 29 hours.

The NE Pacific weather forecasting is good enough that you can have a lot of confidence in a 48-hour forecast. So, wait in port till you get a good 2-day forecast and head out with due haste.

Patience and attention to forecasts it key to a safe and not-too-miserable trip up the coast.
+1, Tacomasailor! Good advice, particularly concerning the weather. Phil
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Old 22-12-2015, 08:44   #69
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Re: Sailing NORTH along California coast

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Originally Posted by TacomaSailor View Post
These discussions are so interesting because we each come to them with a lot of personal experience, bias, expectations, and lack of knowledge. The comments about my "NM and hours" from port to port going north showed me that I had made several undocumented assumptions and came to conclusions that were based on many years of experience that might be quite different than others.

I can see why some found my comments odd - my underlying assumptions were:

1) no sane sailor in a small boat (less than 60' / 25-tons) would willingly sail north along the US West Coast. once north of Point Arenas. UNLESS they had favorable SE to S to SW winds and cooperative seas.

2) Those conditions are quite rare and short lived

3) Few of us have infinite time and cannot sit in Brookings, Coos Bay, or anywhere else for weeks at a time waiting for a pleasant sailing window.

4) Motoring WNW will be necessary except for the rare few with a fast boat and favorable winds / seas

I base those assumptions on:

- thousands of hours of trying to sail against adverse Puget Sound tides and winds while tacking 15-times to make a few miles.

- two sailing trips NW along the outside of Vancouver Island. On one trip we sailed WNW until we were 85 NM offshore while trying to beat into 7' seas and NNW 15 knots of wind for 30-hours. We eventually gave up and beat back to shore, making 25 NM to the good from where we left the shore to where we returned to the shore.

- An attempt to sail from Neah Bay to Tofino in WNW 15-knots and 20' rollers. There were not breaking seas but the rollers were enormous. We would lose all wind in the trough and then be suddenly exposed cresting the swell and just race down the other side. Five hours of that, being scared to death at times convinced me to turn on the motor, make the scariest gype of my life and motor back to Neah Bay.

- many sailing/delivery trips NW from San Diego to Catalina, Newport, Long Beach, LA, Ventura in boats from 32' to 55'. Even the nicest sailing new, big, fast 55' sloop was hard work going WNW into those 6' seas and 15-knot wind

- two 900-mile delivery trips from Cabo San Lucas to San Diego. They convinced me that trying to pound into 6' head seas with 15-knot winds for 12-hours a day was a losing proposition.

With that background - it seems logical to me that 90% of the time going north would be under power so why not determine the time needed by using a straight line route?

We all make choices based on our past experience, or at least how we remember that past experience. My foggy memory is that heading WNW anywhere from Cabo San Lucas to Cape Scott on the NW tip of Vancouver Island will be a motorboat ride, and a not so nice one at that.

If I had had more positive and pleasant sailing experiences headed NW along the North American West Coast I would probably have different expectations.

Therefore, I am sure others probably have different experiences and expectations and they are as valid as mine.
Well said, TacomaSailor! I did it because I was paid well but to take on the northwesterly beat into head seas and wind is not something I enjoyed, particularly as it entailed long, cold watches, constant weather consultations with oneself and being wet, miserable, sleep deprived or bored hiding out in one of the many spots you can get into. If you are close enough to shore to enjoy the scenery, you can add to that the danger factor and possibility of losing the boat!
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Old 11-07-2021, 18:38   #70
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Re: Sailing NORTH along California coast

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I've been searching for stories or accounts of people sailing north along the CA coast - either from San Diego or from San Francisco. I've found indications that every year hundreds of boats make this trip south, yet I've only found 1 account of someone sailing north - a single handed trip on SV Nino.

I've search this forum and have found many requests from individuals about sailing north, and the most common response is always - DONT.

Is there a vast graveyard of boats somewhere south of Mexico where all these travelers are ending up?

I expect to be making this trip myself in a year or so, and I am trying to find information from those that have actually done it. Does anyone have any links or books they could recommend with articles about actual trips taken going north, or even north via Hawaii? (not books on planning - got most of those already)
We are currently sailing “Dulcinea” a Downeast 38 cutter we acquired this year. So far we have stoped at Avalon, Redondo, Ventura, Santa Barbara, and now Breakwater cove in Monterey bay. Our plan is to move to Santa Cruz tomorrow and them Half moon bay after that. The trip has been mostly waiting for windows a low wind and several night passages while the wind out of the north is down. Even though we are in July now the weather has forced us to stop frequently. This has also been exacerbated by some mechanical issues with the boat (replacing parts, corroded electrics and minor issues). The current predictions look a bit dismal and I expect we may be at Half moon for a bit. This is what going north is like unless you want to go pretty far out into the low pressure off shore. With this being an old boat ‘79’ and new to us the risks in that seem high. After we do our refit I belive we would take that path.
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Old 11-07-2021, 20:01   #71
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Re: Sailing NORTH along California coast

I can add but little here. However, I did make the leg from LA (San Pedro) to Port San Luis (PSL) in May, 2019. Then eventually on to Morro Bay for a few nights before returning south six weeks after first arriving in PSL. Spent two nights at anchor in transit outbound; the third night we dropped anchor in Port San Luis (destination). We rounded Pt. Conception and Pt. Arguello on the diesel in very light air after departing from Coho in early morning, keeping about 2 n.mi. offshore in 50 fm as per Fagan’s recommendation. After a few days in PSL forecasts of gale warnings began in our zone, Pt Piedras Blancas to Pt Sal westward to 10 n.mi. offshore, as well as in the adjacent zone of Pt Piedras Blancas to Pt Sal westward 10 to 60 n.mi offshore. It was evidently so rough that vessels of the local fishing fleet took refuge in PSL for several days. This was during a record run of chinook salmon along the central California coast that year!!! The gale and SCA forecasts kept up for a couple of weeks, abated for a few days, then resumed, etc.

The coastal area between Pt Piedras Blancas and Pt Sur was very rough much of this time. In Morro Bay we met a boat heading to LA from Monterey Bay that had made that leg overnight in gale winds in a very well appointed Catalina 36! A quite impressive crew. In any event, this kind of “sailing” is clearly not for the faint of heart. As for us, we awaited a much calmer window for the return to the Santa Barbara Channel (Coho) which eventually appeared, and then on to Ventura the next day in 15-18 kt; nice broad reach.
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Old 20-07-2021, 07:32   #72
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Re: Sailing NORTH along California coast

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Originally Posted by SV Dulcinea View Post
We are currently sailing “Dulcinea” a Downeast 38 cutter we acquired this year. So far we have stoped at Avalon, Redondo, Ventura, Santa Barbara, and now Breakwater cove in Monterey bay. Our plan is to move to Santa Cruz tomorrow and them Half moon bay after that. The trip has been mostly waiting for windows a low wind and several night passages while the wind out of the north is down. Even though we are in July now the weather has forced us to stop frequently. This has also been exacerbated by some mechanical issues with the boat (replacing parts, corroded electrics and minor issues). The current predictions look a bit dismal and I expect we may be at Half moon for a bit. This is what going north is like unless you want to go pretty far out into the low pressure off shore. With this being an old boat ‘79’ and new to us the risks in that seem high. After we do our refit I belive we would take that path.
Welcome aboard, Dulcinea!
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Old 20-07-2021, 08:12   #73
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Re: Sailing NORTH along California coast

You will love Half Moon Bay. You can anchor out or if possible get a slip. Obviously anchoring out is a lot cheaper, quieter and safer as there is little security on the docks at night. Once on the main pier there is decent shopping available by foot. Or walk the beach into town and take the bus back.

After HMB, if you don’t plan on going into San Francisco Bay you can find shelter and good holding in Drake Harbor then Bodega Bay. After that hidey holes become more problematic but not impossible to find. Getting past Mendocino and Punta Arena is a biggy but you a few months before the Fall changes everything.

Enjoy we wish we were there now. Enjoy
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Old 20-07-2021, 08:52   #74
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Re: Sailing NORTH along California coast

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You will love Half Moon Bay. You can anchor out or if possible get a slip. Obviously anchoring out is a lot cheaper, quieter and safer as there is little security on the docks at night. Once on the main pier there is decent shopping available by foot. Or walk the beach into town and take the bus back.

After HMB, if you don’t plan on going into San Francisco Bay you can find shelter and good holding in Drake Harbor then Bodega Bay. After that hidey holes become more problematic but not impossible to find. Getting past Mendocino and Punta Arena is a biggy but you a few months before the Fall changes everything.

Enjoy we wish we were there now. Enjoy
We were overnight at Drakes bay and had a misty but uneventful crossing of the approaches to SFB from Half Moon bay with no sighting of other vessels at all. From there we steamed north to Bodega Bay overnight and the a grueling overnight passage to Ft Bragg and the Noyo River. The First 40 miles we nice but the last 40 rounding point Arena was uncomfortable. Our next leg takes us to Shelter Cove for an overnight and then on to Humboldt bay.
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Old 08-01-2022, 09:03   #75
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Re: Sailing NORTH along California coast

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I have two friends that did the trip to Puget Sound

- one from La Paz nonstop 40+ days in a 32' sailboat. I talked to them every couple nights on the SSB. Misery!

- one from San Franciso 7-days non-stop in a Hylas 46 (? or 48?). They sat in San Francisco for over 2-weeks waiting for a weather window and then, when the weather window opened, hit it hard and sailed all the way with almost no motoring. Their slip in San Francisco cost them $1,000 for that two week wait.

I've made four trips south from Puget Sound and have met some very interesting characters going north. I've crossed every bar except Eureka.

- Swan 50 which left SF and I met him in Newport, OR with a blown out main and damaged toe rail from waves. This was their third trip north and the previous two had been uneventful. The bar was closed for another 24-hours.

- 55' Trawler (forgot the type) with a sliding pilot house door that had been ripped off by a breaking wave. They were out of San Diego and I met them in Coos Bay. The bar remained closed for three more days.

- Hans Christian 42 out of Los Angles who limped into Westport, WA a day after they closed the bar due to 18' breaking waves. We had come in the day before (heading south) in 15' breaking waves. He had planned to "ride the SW gales north" but when the waves 20-miles off shore hit 20' he came in. The SW wind was only 25 knots but the storm waves from the SW were interacting with the 6' prevailing NW swell and creating a mess. Six of us (five headed south) sat in Westport for three more days.

- Bob on Pantera, a home built and extraordinary 35' trimaran. Bob and my brother were cruiser friends in Mexico and Bob made the trip from Victoria, BC to Barra de Navidad (~2,500 miles) every year for over a decade. His boat has a 10 HP Honda outboard and 20-gallons of gasoline. Bob said he never had a trouble coming North - but he could sail at about 1.5x the apparent wind and seldom did less than 12 knots.

A example of the north bound problems:
We were headed North to San Diego from Cabo San Lucas in a 42' Tartan offshore race boat. We sat in Bahia Santa Maria, with 15-other boats all being taken north by delivery captans, four days because the 20-knot NW wind had created a very nasty short period wave train. Finally, on the 5th day the captain of an Ocean Alexander 72 went out at 4 AM (the wind and waves are supposed to die off after sunset and not build until after 11 AM) to "check things out." He limped back into the bay at 10 AM.

The waves were too big and too steep and had ripped a port light (bronze in a 3" thick fiberglass hull) out of the owners cabin at the bow. The cabin was flooding. While trying to turn around, a boarding wave ripped the dinghy out of it's chocks on the boat deck 10' above the waterline. We waited another two days.

A little personal insight:

I've done Puget Sound to San Diego four times in three different boats, the smallest being my 40' Caliber. I've done San Diego to SW Mexico and back twice. I've also done about 5,000 Blue Water miles in other boats. My closest friend has sailed his Norseman 447 from Seattle to Ft Luaderdale, Seattle to Puerto Vallarta, Hawaii, Seattle, and twice Seattle to La Paz. We do have some miles on our bottoms. We've both done a lot of heavy weather sailing at sea and have few concerns about our abilities or boats.

I chose to ship my boat, via truck from the Sea of Cortez back to Seattle. My friend has chosen, twice, to ship his boat, via commercial freighter, from La Paz to Victoria.

We both know that shipping/trucking our boats costs about twice what it does to sail north on their bottoms. But, that sailing trip from San Diego to Cape Flattery would be at least three weeks and possibly five or six. Saving $6,000 by spending 30 to 50 days pounding the boat to death and sitting in very expensive harbors, while waiting for the next weather window, is just not worth it.

The trip North up the US West coast can be done safely and comfortably but it will be time consuming and costly. I'd rather spend that six-weeks cruising in the San Juans.

If you have not been out there pounding north you can not imagine how unpleasant it is to be heading into a constant 5' swell and 3' wind waves directly on the nose. The boat speeds up going down the swell and slows down going up it and your body is constantly being accelerated and decelerated on a 10-second cycle. Even, or maybe even worse, when the wind is not blowing, the swell is always right there, always right in your face.

And, when you get a good sailing wind (East-South-West) you then have wind waves colliding with the constant NW swell making for very steep and unpredictable waves. The conditions are seldom treacherous but also uncomfortable. And, cold - in the middle of summer the water temp north of SF is 52 or less, as is the air. It is impossible to stay warm at night.

This is just the personal opinion of two guys with seven trips from Seattle to Puerto Vallarta, two back to San Diego, and 20,000 sea miles.

Sorry to be negative.
Great post! Thanks for sharing!
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