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Old 18-02-2015, 14:23   #316
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Re: Sailing New England to Australia in February

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While at sea, off shore, out of sight of land? There is no legal requirement that I am aware of where a crew member can demand rescue or force a captain to change course for sure because they want off. Can you imagine the mayhem that could cause with commercial shipping?

The Coast Guard isn't a pickup service for unhappy crew, though they certainly will airlift an injured crew member requiring medical care though I can't imagine the degrees of pissed they'd be if you called them to airlift out someone that didn't want to be on the boat any more.


You can't keep them on board and make them stay with you once you pull into port, however the local authorities may have a very different opinion about them leaving you when you arrive in a different country. Many countries assume that YOU are responsible for the crew you bring in, and responsible for getting them out of the country, which is why you have to post a bond for everyone when you arrive.

We were asked once to "witness" a crew departure from a vessel in the middle of nowhere, where the crew person clearly couldn't stand another day on board and the skipper had had quite enough too. I heard later that the authorities most definitely became aware of the incident and there were some repercussions o another boat that picked the guy up without reporting in properly.
Funny, this was on a commercial vessel I was told this by the captain. I was hired crew. I dont know the legalities on this one, nor why he even mentioned it. Perhaps testing me to see if i wanted off the boat. It was my first time out and two or three days into trip we had a tropical storm on us. Was dicey but not a problem for me.

And perhaps it was a company policy. I dont know. What he said, as licensed captain he was required to take me back to port if i requested. Not call coast guard.

Could perhaps be an OSHA thing if i felt vessel or captain unsafe.

The point I was trying to make in initial post though was that a captain of any vessel is responsible for the crew and passenger safety. Legally, morally and customarily.

One of the articles linked in this thread stated dad called for help. Though others say son did. Alot of misinformation here as well as unknowns.

Myself, if someone on my vessel wanted off, i would head to nearest port and let them off. I would also follow law of any country in.

Your comments definately point out the problems with crew. Another advantage to all lines leading aft and a smaller vessel. Personally, for me the posts on here for crew wanted take on a new light.

And this whole post has words and sayings like held against will, kidnapping and no means no running thru my head. Interesting legal perspectives. If crew gets on voluntarily when do they have right to say no? Its an analogy.







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Old 18-02-2015, 14:29   #317
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Re: Sailing New England to Australia in February

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What...??
Never heard the expression "Eight bells... Watch change..!!"
Bludi wannabe pirates...
It gets worse. There were three of them and they left black footprints all over my boat, inside and out. It took me a whole day to lean up.

What could I do ? they had three guns.
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Old 18-02-2015, 14:36   #318
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Re: Sailing New England to Australia in February

[QUOTE=Wrong;1752704]
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When did you do this? My passage from Bora Bora probably began early to mid-June. It involved one 'turnaround' when after I'd left Bora Bora a weather update revealed a storm was developing in the Australs and heading in the direction of Rarotonga. It was significant enough to have caused damage in Raro, so turning back was a good call. When I got under way a couple of days later the leg to Raro was 30-35 knots with torrential rain. Waves on the quarter were brutal...

Aitutaki, Palmerston and Nui were downwind in typical tradewind conditions. Aside for the gale I encountered shortly after leaving Niue, the leg to Tonga, then Fiiji was a repeat of the passage to Niue. Can't overstate my relief to have arrived in Noumea after sailing mostly to windward after leaving Fiiji. The whole enchilada was sailed between June and late September, arriving in Australia in mid-October.
Left Bora Bora end of June last year, arrived New Zealand end of July. Bora Bora to Tonga was a dream run apart from being headed on the last day or so.

Trip to NZ wasn't extreme in any way just v hard work with a wsw wind and sw swell that pushed us down onto the Kermadecs for much of the trip, went into ssw for the last few days which was good as we could lay our destination in fine style.
While there are closed seasons both in the high and low latitudes I think in the middle latitudes you pays your money and takes your chance. NZ yacht bound Fiji to NZ a few weeks ahead of us was abandoned with rudder loss and I believe some boats coming down in October were hammered.

The nice quarantine lady ( Helen?) in Marsden Cove said that she couldn't understand why everyone came down in October as that was when they always had the crappiest weather and I guess she has seen more than her fair share of arrivals.
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Old 18-02-2015, 14:47   #319
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Re: Sailing New England to Australia in February

'Originally Posted by soverel....' And I believe legally required to remove them from vessel if they request it. So I was told by captain on my first trip offshore'.

Didn't work for me as 16 y.o. on my first trip. Decided I wanted to go home to me Mum the first time I was called at 03dark by some hairy arsed matelot...
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Old 18-02-2015, 14:56   #320
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Re: Sailing New England to Australia in February

God i realy didnt write that how i meant it to read. Lol



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Old 19-02-2015, 07:28   #321
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Re: Sailing New England to Australia in February

[QUOTE=El Pinguino;1752990]
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Left Bora Bora end of June last year, arrived New Zealand end of July. Bora Bora to Tonga was a dream run apart from being headed on the last day or so.

Trip to NZ wasn't extreme in any way just v hard work with a wsw wind and sw swell that pushed us down onto the Kermadecs for much of the trip, went into ssw for the last few days which was good as we could lay our destination in fine style.
While there are closed seasons both in the high and low latitudes I think in the middle latitudes you pays your money and takes your chance. NZ yacht bound Fiji to NZ a few weeks ahead of us was abandoned with rudder loss and I believe some boats coming down in October were hammered.

The nice quarantine lady ( Helen?) in Marsden Cove said that she couldn't understand why everyone came down in October as that was when they always had the crappiest weather and I guess she has seen more than her fair share of arrivals.
Does it really matter WHEN you sail to New Zealand outside the cyclone season, 'cause usually the nearer you are to N.Z. the crappier the weather gets? I've followed the progress of boats sailing to N.Z. on the SSB net while I was enroute to Australia. Seems your almost guaranteed 30 - 35 knots the closer you are to N.Z... Where you leave from will determine wind direction and possibly strength in the long run, but the closer you get...
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Old 19-02-2015, 10:54   #322
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Re: Sailing New England to Australia in February

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Originally Posted by soverel View Post
Funny, this was on a commercial vessel I was told this by the captain. I was hired crew. I dont know the legalities on this one, nor why he even mentioned it. Perhaps testing me to see if i wanted off the boat. It was my first time out and two or three days into trip we had a tropical storm on us. Was dicey but not a problem for me.

And perhaps it was a company policy. I dont know. What he said, as licensed captain he was required to take me back to port if i requested. Not call coast guard.

Could perhaps be an OSHA thing if i felt vessel or captain unsafe.

The point I was trying to make in initial post though was that a captain of any vessel is responsible for the crew and passenger safety. Legally, morally and customarily.

One of the articles linked in this thread stated dad called for help. Though others say son did. Alot of misinformation here as well as unknowns.

Myself, if someone on my vessel wanted off, i would head to nearest port and let them off. I would also follow law of any country in.

Your comments definately point out the problems with crew. Another advantage to all lines leading aft and a smaller vessel. Personally, for me the posts on here for crew wanted take on a new light.

And this whole post has words and sayings like held against will, kidnapping and no means no running thru my head. Interesting legal perspectives. If crew gets on voluntarily when do they have right to say no? Its an analogy.







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I'm no lawyer, but the concept that crew could demand off at any time and you'd have to head in to drop them off posts significant logistical problems to a cruising sailboat. What if they want off when you are say, 1/3 of the way across the Pacific - you'd be compelled to turn around and sail 1,000 miles to the closest port to get rid of them.

My oldest, a very good sailor, heads off to college in September. They we will be three, we have my younger child for three more years - she can stand watch but isn't quite the inspired sailor her brother (who is heading to the UK to study yacht design) is. At some point after #1 son leaves us we will be looking at some longer passages and may want to pick up an extra crew person. So these crew related topics are quite interesting to me too.

It is hard to picture adding an unknown element into our family boat...
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Old 19-02-2015, 11:51   #323
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Re: Sailing New England to Australia in February

Ive searched online trying to answer question myself, difficult finding anything on subject.

Hopefully that means it does not come up often or has been legislated to death.

Captain is in charge of boat though and has ultimate authority.

How exciting for your son. Good luck to all of you.

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Old 19-02-2015, 12:13   #324
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Re: Sailing New England to Australia in February

[QUOTE=Wrong;1753609]
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Originally Posted by El Pinguino View Post

Does it really matter WHEN you sail to New Zealand outside the cyclone season, 'cause usually the nearer you are to N.Z. the crappier the weather gets? I've followed the progress of boats sailing to N.Z. on the SSB net while I was enroute to Australia. Seems your almost guaranteed 30 - 35 knots the closer you are to N.Z... Where you leave from will determine wind direction and possibly strength in the long run, but the closer you get...
Yep, I think that is how it is.... last six months or so was exceptionaly crappy, even the kiwis were complaining, but its just a matter of degree. I reckon the trick is to get as far west as possible eg Sydney before shaping a course for unzud but then of course you will get easterlies...maybe best approached from Hobart.....
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Old 19-02-2015, 12:23   #325
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Re: Sailing New England to Australia in February

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Ive searched online trying to answer question myself, difficult finding anything on subject.

Hopefully that means it does not come up often or has been legislated to death.
Nobody can insist the yacht diverts to a nearby port so they can get off... however... if you have someone on your boat that doesn't want to be there it is probably best to get shot of them asap.

The big ship deal... most on FoC ships ( pretty much everything these days) are employed on contract.....4,6,12 months or whatever. You want off early, fine, but you find your own way home and also pay the airfare for your relief. US flag ships under the Jones Act may be different.

Divert to land you? Dream on... you abandon your yacht in the South Atlantic and get picked up by a ship bound for China...guess where you will next be going ashore.
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Old 19-02-2015, 12:38   #326
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Re: Sailing New England to Australia in February

[QUOTE=El Pinguino;1753885]
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Originally Posted by Wrong View Post
Yep, I think that is how it is.... last six months or so was exceptionaly crappy, even the kiwis were complaining, but its just a matter of degree. I reckon the trick is to get as far west as possible eg Sydney before shaping a course for unzud but then of course you will get easterlies...maybe best approached from Hobart.....
Why bother. Just stay in Sydney and enjoy the beer. :big grin:

As for me having read this thread I think a very well crafted crew agreement/contract should be signed and witnessed before taking on anyone other than immediate family. Could be a whole new business for a lawyer with maritime law under their belt. You could even add punitive clauses such as triple costs incurred if a diversion from the Captains course is required. You could ask for them to also disclose all medical conditions like you would in a Doctors office and if an event occurred related to a non disclosed medical condition than hit them with again punitive damages.

It is a shame that we can't just rely on the goodness of people to do the right ting. Mind you this is an age old problem and why inspire of even Shakespeare's comments on lawyers, is why we have them.

Didn't Pirates use to have sailors sign an oath and agree to a code before becoming part of the crew? I'd be interested to know which lawyer drafted the first Pirates Code or to call it what it was, crew contract.
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Old 19-02-2015, 13:45   #327
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Re: Sailing New England to Australia in February

[QUOTE=El Pinguino;1753885]
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Originally Posted by Wrong View Post
Yep, I think that is how it is.... last six months or so was exceptionaly crappy, even the kiwis were complaining, but its just a matter of degree. I reckon the trick is to get as far west as possible eg Sydney before shaping a course for unzud but then of course you will get easterlies...maybe best approached from Hobart.....
I second GoingWalkabout suggestion. Sail to Australia instead then fly to N.Z. for a visit.
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Old 19-02-2015, 13:47   #328
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Re: Sailing New England to Australia in February

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It is a shame that we can't just rely on the goodness of people to do the right ting. Mind you this is an age old problem and why inspire of even Shakespeare's comments on lawyers, is why we have them.

Didn't Pirates use to have sailors sign an oath and agree to a code before becoming part of the crew? I'd be interested to know which lawyer drafted the first Pirates Code or to call it what it was, crew contract.
The biggest danger is having crew wanting off in a country that won't let them off .... unless they have a ticket out...which you may end up having to pay.....

I knew someone who had his entire crew of 2 jump ship in South Georgia
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Old 19-02-2015, 15:31   #329
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Re: Sailing New England to Australia in February

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USCG boarded me when I was not federally documented while I was anchored at Lahaina. Buggers gave me a ticket for not having a bell. I had never even heard of that rule.
That is just spiteful, because there is absolutely no fog anywhere in Hawaii at sea level (and very rarely and only temporarily is a squall thick enough to reduce visibility).

BTW, Clark Beek had a great series exploring the US CG laws and various roles, though he was advocating for more limitations: Coast Guard Boardings and Your Fourth Amendment Rights, Part 4: Longer and Legaler | Sailfeed
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Old 19-02-2015, 16:08   #330
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Re: Sailing New England to Australia in February

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That is just spiteful, because there is absolutely no fog anywhere in Hawaii at sea level (and very rarely and only temporarily is a squall thick enough to reduce visibility).

BTW, Clark Beek had a great series exploring the US CG laws and various roles, though he was advocating for more limitations: Coast Guard Boardings and Your Fourth Amendment Rights, Part 4: Longer and Legaler | Sailfeed
I know it is a reqt of survey for passenger carrying vessels in Australia and is clearly in the Rules of the road which all mariners should be familar with.
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