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Old 17-02-2015, 14:16   #271
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Re: Sailing New England to Australia in February

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Originally Posted by KnuckleDragger View Post
Find it hard to fathom that they were able to secure hull insurance on that boat. Isn't a survey always a requirement for insurance?
Yes, and I was thinking the same thing. Maybe Jason was confusing his basic liability insurance with hull coverage. Also find it hard to believe -- hull coverage or not -- that the insurance co. would have anything to do with any salvage effort, unless it's some sort of requirement that falls under the coverage for environmental hazards, etc.
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Old 17-02-2015, 14:49   #272
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Re: Sailing New England to Australia in February

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Originally Posted by Exile View Post
Yes, and I was thinking the same thing. Maybe Jason was confusing his basic liability insurance with hull coverage. Also find it hard to believe -- hull coverage or not -- that the insurance co. would have anything to do with any salvage effort, unless it's some sort of requirement that falls under the coverage for environmental hazards, etc.

Insurance pays if you abandon your boat?
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Old 17-02-2015, 14:55   #273
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Re: Sailing New England to Australia in February

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Originally Posted by letsgetsailing3 View Post
Insurance pays if you abandon your boat?
Sure it does! Do you think that you must go down with the ship to collect?

But I too doubt if they had hull coverage for this voyage. In the unlikely event that they could find an underwriter, the premium would likely be more than the 10 K that they paid for the boat!

Jim
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Old 17-02-2015, 14:56   #274
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Re: Sailing New England to Australia in February

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Sure it does! Do you think that you must go down with the ship to collect?

But I too doubt if they had hull coverage for this voyage. In the unlikely event that they could find an underwriter, the premium would likely be more than the 10 K that they paid for the boat!

Jim

As far as we know, the ship didn't go down.
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Old 17-02-2015, 15:02   #275
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Re: Sailing New England to Australia in February

Exile

The coasties can do alot...and they could have stopped it...at time of boarding it wasnt rough though. Thats the reason i guess they did not stop it at that time. I think they should have said that no rescue attempt would be made in storm conditions. It might have let the two of them think a bit more of their decision to leave at that time. As i posted previously I and many others have been told that by coast guard prior to a storm.



he Coast Guard can terminate a voyage if they feel a boat is being operated in an unsafe condition or if an especially hazardous condition exists. You may be directed to port or told to immediately correct the hazardous situation. Your voyage may be terminated if it is declared a "Manifestly Unsafe Voyage" - the catchall that can be used whenever the Coast Guard feels you are operating in an unsafe manner.

An operator who refuses to terminate the unsafe use of a vessel can be cited for failure to comply with the directions of a Coast Guard officer. Violators may be fined up to $1,000, imprisoned for one year, or both.



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Old 17-02-2015, 15:38   #276
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Re: Sailing New England to Australia in February

[QUOTE=Wrong;1751735]
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Originally Posted by Evenstar View Post

I don't have Cornel's book at hand so am working from memory. As is frequently the case, the best times for passagemaking can vary for routes that appear relative close to one another. So, the best time to New Zealand from Tahiti can be "mid October to November" while the "arrive by" date for a passage to Australia is mid-October. Of this I am sure. Meanwhile, sailing from Tonga or Fiiji to New Zealand may be different still. What does Cornel say about this? The Queen's birthday storm in1994 underscores the fact that regardless of recommendations, unseasonable storms do occur... More likely on some passages than others.

Bottom line is, as this thread so amply illustrates, "when to go" is a fundamental part of planning.
When to go is huge.

Its one thing to skirt the edges of the season with eye on the weather, but the middle of the winter in New England isn't on the edges of anything remotely optimal for a passage.
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Old 17-02-2015, 15:43   #277
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Re: Sailing New England to Australia in February

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Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
Sure it does! Do you think that you must go down with the ship to collect?

But I too doubt if they had hull coverage for this voyage. In the unlikely event that they could find an underwriter, the premium would likely be more than the 10 K that they paid for the boat!

Jim
I think you are right. $10,000 boats are rarely insured.
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Old 17-02-2015, 15:46   #278
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Re: Sailing New England to Australia in February

[QUOTE=Evenstar;1751851]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wrong View Post

When to go is huge.

Its one thing to skirt the edges of the season with eye on the weather, but the middle of the winter in New England isn't on the edges of anything remotely optimal for a passage.
Even without the storm the nights would have been around 20f. Cold like that can sap your strength real fast. They had no cabin heater.
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Old 17-02-2015, 15:58   #279
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Re: Sailing New England to Australia in February

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Originally Posted by Evenstar View Post
When to go is huge.

Its one thing to skirt the edges of the season with eye on the weather, but the middle of the winter in New England isn't on the edges of anything remotely optimal for a passage.
Hell, 3 months ago would not have been remotely optimal, for that boat, and that crew, to shoot straight to Bermuda from Newport... Even those guys on that Swan 46 WOLFHOUND 2 winters ago didn't make it, after all...

Maybe one of these years, folks will start paying attention to the guy who wrote the book on Transatlantic Passagemaking, and sailing south to the Islands from the East Coast:

Don Street's Sailing Routes to the Caribbean | Cruising World

Quote:
Going south in late fall from such New England ports as Newport, Rhode Island, by way of Bermuda is basically playing Russian roulette. In 2011, the bullet ended up in the firing chamber, and as a result, two boats and one life were lost. (See “Hard Lessons Learned in the North Atlantic,” February 2012.) This has happened many times in the past, and it will happen again if sailors keep following that same route. The North Atlantic is no place for a cruising boat with a shorthanded crew when fall gales rile the sea.
...

Sailors heading south to Bermuda in November should stop asking for weather windows, and weather routers should stop providing them: These windows don’t exist except for 90-foot sailing rocket ships that can reach Bermuda in three days. U.S. East Coast weather becomes so unstable in November that forecasts are good only up to 48 to 60 hours.
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Old 17-02-2015, 16:08   #280
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Re: Sailing New England to Australia in February

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Originally Posted by hoppy View Post
This is the post by JMSAILING (Jason McGlashan??) on Sailing Anarchy

Quote:
There was a substantial amount of time and money invested into the boat to make it search worthy, a lot of people say what they want and believe what they think. There is over 25 years of sailing and racing experience for Jason. There was extras on board including a wind generator, that was purchased from a local shop that ended up not working. Almost 200 miles was sailed in the first day heading to Bermuda, then problems started, the alternator on the yanmar stopped functioning properly, wind generator wasn't charging correctly, making it hard for the auto pilot to operate, which was also brand new for the trip, the sails were lowered going into the second night to resolve a remedy, whilst the sails were lowered both the main and smaller headsail were torn,they then started to motor south after around 1 hour of this the motor decided to stop working. The call was put out on the radio, it was not answered, they tried the sat phone and at the same time the epirb was set off, the conditions were only around 15-20 knots at the time the epirb was activated, around 1 hour later the storm hit and both were airlifted off for there safety. If the problems had not happened they would of been around 250 miles from Bermuda when the storm hit, most likely missing any of the storm. There is more detail but not needed for a blog

It seems to me that one of the biggest mistakes was not having a shakedown cruise. Maybe in good conditions Bermuda could have ok for that, but given the conditions, hugging the coast I would have thought better. A storm is not the best place to discover that newly fitted items are not working.
Whoa. Mind. Blown.

They pushed the big red button before the storm even hit? In 15-20 knots of wind? Amazing.

And of course, he obviously doesn't think he did anything wrong... A bunch of stuff broke, how could I have anticipated that?
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Old 17-02-2015, 16:18   #281
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Re: Sailing New England to Australia in February

I'm very disturbed that Jason is defending his decision. It's beyond reason.
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Old 17-02-2015, 16:42   #282
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Re: Sailing New England to Australia in February

There is plenty more of "beyond reason". The father claims to have rescue training from Australia's volunteer coastguard. Upon returning to shore he admits to issuing the mayday call. Which radio did he use ? The VHF.

No one answered. Funny that.
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Old 17-02-2015, 17:25   #283
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Re: Sailing New England to Australia in February

If their sails blew out in 15-20 how would they have made it 9k miles?
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Old 17-02-2015, 18:08   #284
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Re: Sailing New England to Australia in February

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Originally Posted by soverel View Post
Exile

The coasties can do alot...and they could have stopped it...at time of boarding it wasnt rough though. Thats the reason i guess they did not stop it at that time. I think they should have said that no rescue attempt would be made in storm conditions. It might have let the two of them think a bit more of their decision to leave at that time. As i posted previously I and many others have been told that by coast guard prior to a storm.



he Coast Guard can terminate a voyage if they feel a boat is being operated in an unsafe condition or if an especially hazardous condition exists. You may be directed to port or told to immediately correct the hazardous situation. Your voyage may be terminated if it is declared a "Manifestly Unsafe Voyage" - the catchall that can be used whenever the Coast Guard feels you are operating in an unsafe manner.

An operator who refuses to terminate the unsafe use of a vessel can be cited for failure to comply with the directions of a Coast Guard officer. Violators may be fined up to $1,000, imprisoned for one year, or both.



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OK, thanks. Short of a major federal criminal violation -- for e.g. transporting drugs -- I didn't realize the Coasties had the legal authority to turn a boat around for the reasons you cited. I agree that they should, and it would have been a judicious exercise of that authority in this case it seems. Given the forecast, Jason's claim that they instead green-lighted continuing on to Bermuda strains credibility.
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Old 17-02-2015, 18:26   #285
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Re: Sailing New England to Australia in February

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Originally Posted by letsgetsailing3 View Post
Insurance pays if you abandon your boat?
That's why I asked, assuming hull insurance coverage obviously. Typically insurance will pay the full value of the boat if it is a total loss, either because it is literally lost via an irretrievable sinking, fire, theft, etc., or because the cost of repairs exceeds its value. Just not sure what happens insurance-wise if you're rescued and you do the presumably seamanlike thing by intentionally scuttling your boat. Or if you intentionally abandon w/o scuttling and the boat is never recovered. Or if the boat is recovered but the cost of repairs & salvage exceed its value.

Then again, calling for a rescue presupposes danger to life which takes priority over any value assigned to the boat. It also assumes that the boat won't be floating for long or the rescue would not be necessary. So I suppose in such circumstances it is probably irrelevant. Still, it might be nice to know in say, a medical emergency where crew needs to be evacuated but the boat is otherwise fine, what might be the most appropriate action to take.
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