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Old 29-03-2012, 01:08   #1
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Sailing Co-op or Other

I really should start two threads, but the ideas are related. So here goes, I would like to forward two ideas. One idea being the possibility of someone with time, knowledge and help from this forum to start a sailing co op in a warm climate. The help from this forum could be in allowing the co op to advertise and be part of the community( as in the social community). Of course the co op should be " non profit". I am just putting the idea forward and see where it bounces. This might make things a little more accessible for the dreamers.
I believe there are more out there than one would think.

Next idea would be for members that are out there cruising to also start a group. This would be a social group that people could see a list and be able contact the person via this forum. Members of this group could be anywhere in the world at any given time. What they offer is for a fee a chance for a person to cruise and learn from them. They could accept clients on their time frame and possibly get to know them a bit better via this forum.
I would love to have a chance to go cruising with some of the posters on this forum. I really love the sense of humor of most of the regulars. And to go for a cruise with them would be great.
Cheers,
Wayne
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Old 29-03-2012, 01:43   #2
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Re: Sailing co-op or other

Interesting. but not for me. I enjoy the company of other cruisers, but like the fact we go back to our own boat and they to theirs. I will not taken on crew, unless there is exceptional circumstances. Our boat is our home and the responsibilities of having some one unknown to us spend time in close proximity would be difficult. At best it could be enjoyable, at worst we lose the boat our home and as captain jail.
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Old 29-03-2012, 01:47   #3
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Re: Sailing co-op or other

I like scheme A

B exists, just apply for the crewing opportunities on this forum, floatplan, etc.
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Old 29-03-2012, 11:44   #4
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Re: Sailing co-op or other

Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Soul Wayne View Post
I really should start two threads, but the ideas are related. So here goes, I would like to forward two ideas. One idea being the possibility of someone with time, knowledge and help from this forum to start a sailing co op in a warm climate. The help from this forum could be in allowing the co op to advertise and be part of the community( as in the social community). Of course the co op should be " non profit". I am just putting the idea forward and see where it bounces. This might make things a little more accessible for the dreamers.
I believe there are more out there than one would think.
There is of course a difference between "not for profit" and costing SFA!

The boat(s) do need to be paid for and maintained - and someone does also need to manage them (and all that costs in time and money)......probably closest thing is some variation of the YachtFractions idea (boats on Timeshares, owned and managed by a small group of individuals rather than a Charter company - usual MO is weeks per year, but no reason why the idea could not be seasons instead. Obviously a cost involved overall and capital to be put up front - with no guarantee of the return (when boat sold)......but certainly "not for profit" - just will have a cost. an uncertain cost at that.

Apart from that I can't see it being a commercially viable thing to do simply on a long term (season / year long) charter basis - once you factor in the capital invested (and the risk of numpties as Skippers) and the time to manage the venture..........but, I've been wrong before!

IMO if not commercially viable and the boat users themselves not willing to put up the capital and pay the maintanence costs (and to take the risk on the return) then will need an extraordinarily generous person to fund the boat(s) in money and time - good luck with that!


Quote:
Next idea would be for members that are out there cruising to also start a group. This would be a social group that people could see a list and be able contact the person via this forum. Members of this group could be anywhere in the world at any given time. What they offer is for a fee a chance for a person to cruise and learn from them. They could accept clients on their time frame and possibly get to know them a bit better via this forum.

I would love to have a chance to go cruising with some of the posters on this forum. I really love the sense of humor of most of the regulars. And to go for a cruise with them would be great.
Cheers,
Wayne
I can see how that could be attractive to someone wanting to get onboard, but really don't see how that would be attractive to Owners or how it differs from simply taking crew onboard who contribute to "expenses" (however that is defined - before becoming a charter fee).


But, FWIW, have been kicking over something vaguely similar by creating a sailing Charity locally - targetted at low income / unemployed / homeless (most of our homeless are housed, and for most unemployment is a transitional thing). The idea being to use 2 or 3 small boats (20 footers - plus or minus) that are very basically equipped for day sailing, and maybe a bit of fishing or simply sitting onboard having a beer . To work around any licensing or training requirements folk would acquire 1 share in the boat for £1 (with a 1 year buy back agreement).....apart from the sailing end of things, an opportunity for some to get involved in the maintanence side (rather than watching daytime TV etc) - But probably another DOJ idea that never goes anywhere .
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Old 29-03-2012, 12:59   #5
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Re: Sailing co-op or other

We actually have started that and will be up and running in Mexico full on next year.
We offer it in a club format and have vessels in Mexico and PNW. We will also include some on shore accommodation in the various popular cruising areas in Mexico. If it works we will put a vessel in Bahamas/grenada and possibly the Med. Send email for details...
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Old 29-03-2012, 13:19   #6
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Re: Sailing co-op or other

Quote:
Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey View Post

IMO if not commercially viable and the boat users themselves not willing to put up the capital and pay the maintanence costs (and to take the risk on the return) then will need an extraordinarily generous person to fund the boat(s) in money and time - good luck with that!.
Kinda like the Red Cross...that place will never make it!

I can see that there would be a lot of interest in this if this becomes a tax deductible donation. It is the operating accordingly so that NPO members aren't gaining substantial benefits so the IRS is okay with it.

I myself am quite curious if this would/could work!
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Old 29-03-2012, 16:52   #7
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Re: Sailing Co-op or Other

In Vancouver there is a sailing club called the Barnet Sailing Club. They offer primarily 28' sailboats ( yes they are not shiny brand new). But for a small fee you can join the club. There are different levels of membership. The highest being around $ 800.00 and this is just a guess because I am not a current member. You can book sailing weeks for this "buy in" , as well go weekend sailing too. They make enough money to pay for all expenses and plan for upgrades.
I think it is a good business model. However, I am only suggesting I would like to see this kind of a co op in warmer climates.
"Option B" as it were already exists. I am only suggesting modify the site
( Cruisers Forum) to have a place were members could leave their advertisement up indefinitely and others could see very easily where these people might be etc. I was hoping someone would initiate a new group ( in the community) that got created for this service. I believe there could be lots of people that would prefer to vacation that way. It would stand to be cheaper than a bareboat rental but also have a tour guide built right in. Obviously,
the boat owner would not be doing this solely for fun. It could help replenish the cruising kitty.
Cheers
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Old 29-03-2012, 17:13   #8
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Re: Sailing Co-op or Other

You know the TransOcean club (Germans) has such outposts. This would be nice to have a CF outpost, sure.

Which area would be most adequate to start with? West Indies perhaps.

Perhaps there is an island out there that would allow for tax-free rum in a non-profit venue? Just thinkin' ...

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Old 29-03-2012, 17:20   #9
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Re: Sailing Co-op or Other

Hi Barnakiel,

I just went to that site. It looks kinda like what I was talking about except I can't read a thing.
That's ok I'll have to invite a German buddy over( just can't afford all that beer)
Cheers
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Old 29-03-2012, 18:03   #10
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There are a few sites up offering registration and boat swapping. The idea is to trade time so that one can cruise various areas. Have been watching a couple of years and they don't seem to have great traction.

I guess the first question I always have is to describe the problem one is trying to solve. Once you know what you are solving for you can start to design solutions.
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Old 29-03-2012, 18:11   #11
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Re: Sailing Co-op or Other

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Hi Barnakiel,

I just went to that site. (...)
Fritz, their man in Gambiers helped us in virtually everything - from laundry to LPG, to fresh eggs and a round-the-island trip in the guy's lorry. Words cannot say how much that support meant to us.

I think their network will be something like at least a couple dozen of world-wide locations.

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Old 30-03-2012, 03:40   #12
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Re: Sailing co-op or other

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Kinda like the Red Cross...that place will never make it!

I can see that there would be a lot of interest in this if this becomes a tax deductible donation. It is the operating accordingly so that NPO members aren't gaining substantial benefits so the IRS is okay with it.

I myself am quite curious if this would/could work!
Not quite sure if the Red Cross is a direct comparison (patching up peasants in far away places vs providing cheap vacations in exotic locations)........whilst I am sure that a tax deduction would be nice, I don't see why folks who were not getting direct benefit personally would put hand in own pocket. But maybe folks elsewhere a bit more generous?

But as I said in my earlier post, I've been wrong before .

The Club idea sounds like it has some merit - would be of interest to hear some details of how that works / some numbers.
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Old 31-03-2012, 11:10   #13
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Re: Sailing Co-op or Other

Here are some links to two other co ops.

http://www.barnetsailing.bc

The Vanisle Sailing Co-op

I just like the idea. Like to see it catch hold in some warmer locals.

Cheers
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Old 05-04-2012, 13:18   #14
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Re: Sailing Co-op or Other

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Originally Posted by Old Soul Wayne View Post
Here are some links to two other co ops.

http://www.barnetsailing.bc

The Vanisle Sailing Co-op

I just like the idea. Like to see it catch hold in some warmer locals.

Cheers

Have been doing a touch of Googling on the subject (principally the Canadian Co-ops).

Seems to be a few common themes / key points:-
  • The Members are local to the boats
  • The Members contribute to the maintenance in time and skills (as well as from the annual fees)
  • The boats date from the 70’s and 80’s.
  • Boats are pretty much mainstream / middle of the road – I guess anything with character costs extra to look after.
  • Boat size is around 30’ (plus or minus a couple of feet)
  • Boat use more about daily / weekend sailing than 2 weeks solid.
  • Boats used locally (albeit in one case that does include the USA!)
  • Outboard Power is more popular than one would expect.
  • Annual Membership fees around the $1000 pa mark (albeit with sign on fees and a variety of fee models)
  • Members get around 300 hours of boat time a year
  • Crew only other Co-Op Members (or family members)
  • Fleets from 2 to 7 boats
  • Membership numbers restricted
However a lot of variety on the precise details / rules for each Co-op, probably a lot to do with things initially developing as they went along and what works locally.

I can see that the Membership being local to the boats would drop the costs enormously, so not so good for replicating the model overseas (in the sun!) – at least not on the same very low cost basis – and usage becomes mostly extended periods rather than simple day / weekend sails which would affect the membership numbers.

My take is that would need at least one person on the ground to manage the day to day operations and the maintenance, even if that outsourced – and for that either need someone who is very generous (with their time) or someone who will be making a living from doing so. I would favour a model built around the latter, as makes the person replaceable (and therefore more sustainable over future years) – otherwise could end up with a few boats stuck abroad and no one to look after them / the costs suddenly going through the roof!…..but obviously that ups the costs……..

I do think there is something in there, just not entirely sure what! – and whether worth the aggro for the return (for me a warm fuzzy feeling doesn’t get folk much!)….including for putting hand in pocket for the boats!
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Old 05-04-2012, 13:24   #15
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Exactly what you are talking about exists in "warm ish" climates

http://www.cal-sailing.org/

Based out of Berkeley. I lived in San fran for 7 years and taught sailing near this club at OCSC. This was a very active and good club, but geared towards dingys not larger boats.

Worth checking out thier website just to see how it can be done.
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