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Old 17-05-2016, 05:51   #46
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Re: Sailboats that can be trailered easily.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Irsikm2016 View Post
Great responses, answering a lot of my questions.

Price range: I really would not look at anything over 20k.

Been reading a lot about advantages to each boat manufacturer and wanted some input. I thought it would be wise to look at one that was easier to sail solo. I believe a Beneteau came up with being easy to sail solo with where rigging was located....thoughts??

Cabin is important as the wife will want that. Mainly something with some features that make the space more comfortable.
Relatively speaking, the majority of sailboats 25 ft or under are easy to sail solo. I know guys who solo their 30 ft boats, but I wouldn't call it easy. It's simple to run lines into the cockpit, add a tiller-tamer or auto-pilot etc.

Cabin? That's a big caution flag. In my opinion, just about every monohull under maybe 28 ft has compromises in the cabin. And "big cabin" runs against the goals of cost, ease of sailing, ease of trailering and setup.

When my friend and his wife were looking for boats, her criteria for the boat could be summed up as "a head with a door". They ended up with a MacGregor 26M.

Suggestion: start looking at tons of different sailboats with your wife. Go to boat shows. You both need to agree on the minimum cabin that's acceptable and what compromises to make. This will narrow your search, if the cabin is a dealbreaker.
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Old 17-05-2016, 06:43   #47
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Re: Sailboats that can be trailered easily.

20K won't get you an F-boat, but it's really what you want. If... you aren't against fixing something up you...might...be able to find an F27 in that price range. I think an F24 is probably small, but then some of these small leaners that are suggested are about the same amount of room

Farrier's trimarans are not only fast, but they are comfortable (you can modify easily to your liking) and rigging is quick. We adored our F-27GS, still miss it, although wife has arthritis and had to give the small boat up

Trimaran and Catamaran Designs By Farrier Marine, Inc.
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Old 17-05-2016, 08:30   #48
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Re: Sailboats that can be trailered easily.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Irsikm2016 View Post
Great responses, answering a lot of my questions.

Price range: I really would not look at anything over 20k.

Been reading a lot about advantages to each boat manufacturer and wanted some input. I thought it would be wise to look at one that was easier to sail solo. I believe a Beneteau came up with being easy to sail solo with where rigging was located....thoughts??

Cabin is important as the wife will want that. Mainly something with some features that make the space more comfortable.
Two of our friends both have Beneteau First 235's and we sail with them a lot. I would say that once on the water, they are great little boats and will sail circles around our Seaward 25 in any winds below about 15 knots. Nice open concept cabin. We have had 8 people playing cards down below around the table.

Having said that, they are not the easiest to rig and launch. One of our friends has to strap launch theirs and the other uses a super long tongue extension. Typical rigging time seems to be in the three hour or more range and help is often needed to raise the mast. Most tend to have hank on head sails as the setup on the bow doesn't lend itself easily to a roller furler.
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Old 17-05-2016, 09:58   #49
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Re: Sailboats that can be trailered easily.

There is much talk here of how hard it is to raise the mast. The previous owner of my Catalina 22 raised and lowered the mast often, and he was in his late 70s. I have only lowered and raised it once, but using the A-frame that came with the boat, it takes very little physical effort. I use the main sheet for power, although the previous owner used the trailer winch for the lifting. The Catalina dealer (Catalina Direct) sells a mast holder that has a roller on the top and makes it easy to roll the mast aft enough to fix the hinge pin at the mast step and then start your lifting. It took me an hour or so when I did it, but I had no help or idea of how it was going to work. I did everything very slowly and carefully. The next time will be much faster and I suspect that by the end of summer, I will have it down to a routine. The A-frame could be homemade easily from aluminum tubing. It attaches to the forward lower chain plates and comes together at the bow with an eye coming out the topside and bottom of a plate that holds the two tubes together. Attach the headstay to the A-frame eye bolt (A-frame will be upright at this point) and attach the main sheet to the bottom eye bolt and the stem fitting and start hauling. The uppers and aft lowers dont need to be dis-connected unless you are actually removing the mast from the boat. I dont see that raising a mast on a 25 foot boat would be much harder than on a 22 as long as you dont think you are going to do it all with muscle power. Tomorrow I will take some photos of my A-frame and see if I can figure out how to post pictures on here. Since the OP is driving a heavy pickup as a tow vehicle, I dont see any reason for him to limit himself (and his Admiral) to a 20 or 22 foot boat. Of course this is like everything else on CF. It is just my opinion. ____Grant.
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Old 17-05-2016, 10:29   #50
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Re: Sailboats that can be trailered easily.

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Originally Posted by Lake-Effect View Post
Relatively speaking, the majority of sailboats 25 ft or under are easy to sail solo. I know guys who solo their 30 ft boats, but I wouldn't call it easy. It's simple to run lines into the cockpit, add a tiller-tamer or auto-pilot etc.
This 25' limit is un-necessary. I learned to sauil in an El Toro, that's 8'. Next was an O'Day Day Sailer, 16' and both me and my then ten year old son could each singlehand it, even with a spinaker. Next was a Catalina 22 and we each singlehanded that, too. The last was a Cal 39 which I bought to sail the 1980 Singlehanded Transpac to Hawaii, which I did, and also singlehanded in San Francisco Bay and the Delta - much more of a challenge, especially with many other boats around. So I have some experience in various sized boats.

By far the easiest to singlehand was the Cal 39. Why? Because I could move around, go to the head and galley, without causing the boat to change course. The Catalina 22 was somewhat sensative to my weight placement. The Day Saler I could steer, tack and jibe, by just moving around on the boat. The El Toro was a little different between my large size and the boat's small size there really wasn't much moving around that I could do. But my son did and could control the boat with his weight.

The only place that larger size might have a negative effect is in close quarters - because of the time needed to get around and the boat's carry-thru, and in the cost of repairs if you make a miscalculation. But at sea you've got a working platform that is much more stable and has a somewhat calmer motion.
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Old 17-05-2016, 11:09   #51
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Re: Sailboats that can be trailered easily.

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Originally Posted by secrabtree View Post
This 25' limit is un-necessary. I learned to sauil in an El Toro, that's 8'. Next was an O'Day Day Sailer, 16' and both me and my then ten year old son could each singlehand it, even with a spinaker. Next was a Catalina 22 and we each singlehanded that, too. The last was a Cal 39 which I bought to sail the 1980 Singlehanded Transpac to Hawaii, which I did, and also singlehanded in San Francisco Bay and the Delta - much more of a challenge, especially with many other boats around. So I have some experience in various sized boats.

By far the easiest to singlehand was the Cal 39. Why? Because I could move around, go to the head and galley, without causing the boat to change course. The Catalina 22 was somewhat sensative to my weight placement. The Day Saler I could steer, tack and jibe, by just moving around on the boat. The El Toro was a little different between my large size and the boat's small size there really wasn't much moving around that I could do. But my son did and could control the boat with his weight.

The only place that larger size might have a negative effect is in close quarters - because of the time needed to get around and the boat's carry-thru, and in the cost of repairs if you make a miscalculation. But at sea you've got a working platform that is much more stable and has a somewhat calmer motion.

Well, the OP did say that he wants a platform to learn on, is trailerable, and under $20k, so a 39' boat might be inappropriate. And you, like many of us, progressed to the larger boat.

I don't know that many people who could singlehand a 39' in SF Bay, let alone a TransPac - so... respect!
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Old 17-05-2016, 12:52   #52
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Re: Sailboats that can be trailered easily.

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Originally Posted by Lake-Effect View Post
Well, the OP did say that he wants a platform to learn on, is trailerable, and under $20k, so a 39' boat might be inappropriate. And you, like many of us, progressed to the larger boat.

I don't know that many people who could singlehand a 39' in SF Bay, let alone a TransPac - so... respect!
Two comments.

One - If the OP wants a boat to learn to sail on I recommend an El Toro or an Optimus Dinghy. Both are about 8' long and one person boats. (I like the El Toro better, but that's my prejudice). Then, as the OP learns sailing move to a two person dinghy. An only then move up to a keel boat. Learning to sail on a keel boat is harder. The boat is too forgiving and not responsive enough to give quick positive feedback. One doesn't even have to purchase a boat to learn on something small in any area with a large enough population to offer sailing classes. Don't spend thousands of dollars on a boat until after you learn to sail AND after you know you like it AND after you have a better idea of what you want and why.

Two - You seem to have reversed the order of difficulty. By far it is easier to sail singlehanded across the Pacific to Hawaii than to sail singlehanded in San Francisco Bay with the large number of other recreational boats and the commercial freighters and commercial fishing boats and large number of shallow places and inattention less than an hour you will be aground. And sailing in the Delta, SAILING in the Delta, makes sailing San Francisco Bay seem like child's play - because there are more invisible shallows and they may move a little from the charted position, and the time of inattention allowed is very often single digit minutes.
The biggest danger singlehanding in the open ocean is if you find out you don't like your own company. Skippers have gone crazy sailing alone for a long time. They have imagined (and believed) that a dead person has told them that there are explosives hidden on the boat. There have been suicides of singlehanded skippers. The biggest danger singlehanding long distances is the skipper's mind.
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Old 17-05-2016, 13:23   #53
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Re: Sailboats that can be trailered easily.

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Originally Posted by gjordan View Post
There is much talk here of how hard it is to raise the mast.
I agree that raising the mast doesn't have to be the most physically demanding of tasks. It is, however, an important learned skill and if not done carefully can cause damage or injury. We have a friend who was knocked off a MacGregor when the mast got away from them and came down. He was lucky to have only suffered a compound leg fracture.

There are many systems out there, the A-frame being a popular one, whose purpose is to give mechanical advantage to lifting the mast and keeping it from swaying too far to one side as it is being lifted. The downside to this is the mechanical advantage can make it easy to bend or break things. The Catalina 18 is famous for bending the turnbuckles if the shrouds are not kept in an upright position during raising. It is important that any system allows you to go slow and to stop and look around for things hanging up.

Our boat typically takes 2 to 3 hours to rig and launch. Of that, the actual raising of the mast, including mounting the gin pole and baby stays (different system) takes about 20 minutes. The rest of the time is spent hooking up electronics, stringing halyards, mounting the boom and vang, mounting sails, launching the boat, etc. We have rigged and derigged approximately 30 times now over the past 6 years and pretty much have it down to a science. I can't see it ever becoming significantly faster for us on this boat. On the other hand, our friend's Compac Suncat can be rigged and launched in 45 minutes pretty easily. All depends on the boat and the systems.
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Old 17-05-2016, 14:00   #54
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Re: Sailboats that can be trailered easily.

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Originally Posted by canyonbat View Post
I agree that raising the mast doesn't have to be the most physically demanding of tasks. It is, however, an important learned skill and if not done carefully can cause damage or injury.

Our boat typically takes 2 to 3 hours to rig and launch.
This seems inordinately long to me. For about a decade I kept my Catalina 22 in the water in Antioch CA and raced it almost every weekend in San Francisco By. Between the two places it's about 10 hours by water but only one by freeway, if the tidal current is right. So my practice was to load it on the trailer, de-rig, launch in the Bay at whatever the location was near where the race was going to be held that day, rig the boat on the trailer, and launch her. That entire process, including travel time, was under 3 hours, usually close to two.
The first time that I raised the mast (in 1973) I had the help of my 6 year old daughter. The total time between arriving at the launch area parking lot until the boat was in the water was a little over a half hour. That's total time to rig the boat the first time I had ever done it AND launch it. And with the help of only one little six year old girl.
I'm no superman (actually physically challenged because of a brain operation in 1955), anybody can do what I've done, they just have to think ahead, don't waste moves, but work steady.
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Old 20-05-2016, 06:25   #55
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Re: Sailboats that can be trailered easily.

We have a hunter 23.5, live in Central Alberta, so we have a few lakes with in 1hr driving distance.
By the time I pull up to the ramp, I start to set up, with in 35 min i'm in the water.

I've seen people with power boats or them pontoon barges take longer to get their boat in the water.

Our hunter has a nice big cockpit, nice sleeping quarters, it is perfect to stay a few nights on it with you significant other.
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Old 20-05-2016, 08:11   #56
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Re: Sailboats that can be trailered easily.

As you can see, different boats require different rigging times. The things to look for when considering how long it will take to rig would be:

Do you have to re-attach the shrouds or stays each time? Since our typical travel time is often measured in days, rather than hours, we completely remove the roller furled forestay and the backstay. Having to hoist and tie off the foresail takes a good 20 minutes by itself.

How many instruments do you have to attach? Before the mast goes up, we install a windex, a wind instrument and a VHF antennae. The wind instruments have a plug at the mast base but the VHF antennae goes through a fitting that takes 5 or ten minutes to install.

Another big time suck is installing the rigid boom vang. It never goes on easy and can sometimes take 15 to 20 minutes. And, don't get me started on the pesky flag halyards that Katie insists we rig each time!

Someone mentioned the NorSea 27 in an earlier post. There was one launched here a couple of years ago. If I recall, they took close to 6 hours getting her all rigged up and into the water. Of course they were continually being interrupted by admirers which is a problem for us as well. When friends ask if they can help we always assign them to stand on the ground and talk to the people who come up and ask questions.

One funny thing that comes up when discussing rigging times is the "if I hadn't of had to" time. Kind of like the old saying "not enough time to do it right but plenty of time to do it over".
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Old 20-05-2016, 09:28   #57
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Re: Sailboats that can be trailered easily.

We have had a few trailerable boats. My favorite was a Catalina 22 with drop keel. Very stable and fun to sail. Easy to trailer too. We took ours to Lake Powel from Colorado.

The boat we have been using lately is a Macgregor 26x. This is more of a floating compromise between a power boat and a sailer but it has a lot to recommend it for the right person. Super easy to trailer and step the mast. Draft is shallow and the boat can be beached with the dagger board up. The cabin is pretty comfortable and we have used ours for week long trips for 2.
We use ours on mountain lakes so launching ramps are always shallow but its no problem with the 26x.
Other people even use these boats for the keys.

There are caveats....its not a great sailer. But it does sail. You wont win races.

Still, its a good boat if you trailer often and intend to sleep on your boat. Especially good for inland lakes.

Regarding stepping the mast on both of these, on the catalina we used the trailer winch. On the macgreggor we use their own system. Both are easy to lift. We can have either boat stepped and rigged in under an hour. Im.5 feet tall, 110 lbs. Size isnt an issue but stepping either mast single handed is not advised.
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Old 20-05-2016, 09:32   #58
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Re: Sailboats that can be trailered easily.

We launched Wednesday - first launch after the winter. We try to have as much prep done prior to launch to minimize time on the lot and ramp. Eg outboard was already on, gassed and tested.

The tasks were, basically:
  • put the running rigging back on (could have done this earlier, but heck, was 10 min)
  • antenna and windex on masthead
  • attach spreaders, attach shrouds to deck
  • slide mast back on aft crutch, fit mastbase to tabernacle, rig jibsheet as hoisting line
  • raise mast. We haven't yet made an A-frame; what we do is: I lift the mast as I walk from the stern towards the companionway, and my wife takes the load on the jib halyard as the mast approaches vertical
  • my wife holds the halyard while I fasten the bowstay
  • fenders and docklines lines on
  • ...back in, unfasten the winchline, launch the boat, move vehicle and trailer off of ramp

The whole process took about an hour because there was no time pressure and it was a nice day. We did it slowly, and didn't goof anything up.

The actual time occupying the ramp with the launch was under 5 minutes. I've seen powerboaters really be hogs here: leaving the boat there while they load up, wait for cousin Earl to arrive, corral the kids, douse with sunscreen and stick lifejackets on'em. And hauling out - big fun watching somebody take several attempts at powering onto the trailer pulling out, oh we're not centered, back in do it again. Complete with swearing at each each other, then at us when we suggest they could just float it onto the trailer and pull out slowly. Good times...
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Old 21-05-2016, 21:42   #59
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Re: Sailboats that can be trailered easily.

I've done what you are hoping to accomplish. Here's my $.02.

Rather than spending a huge outlay on a boat with all the accoutrements to allow cruising, get a day sailor with a small cabin. Limit staying on the boat to a simple overnight and instead find a local hotel/ motel to the lake your are cruising. Or bring camping gear and stay ashore. By the time you find a large enough boat that is trailerable and has a lav, running water, cooking facilities, maybe air conditioning and, most importantly, enough room for you and the family, you'll be approaching north of $50,000.

Instead, buy a $5-$10,000 day sailor and just travel to places where a hotel is within an hours drive of where you leave the boat for the night. Going more than an hour away? Fine. Camp on the boat one night, shore the next. Point being, stay away from the cost of hauling a bigger, heavier, more expensive boat. You can get a $60/ night room and not have the mx headaches of a larger boat.

I did this with our Holder20 when my kids were smaller. As they go bigger I was looking as high as a $236,000 Corsair 36 Tri as I needed more room and creature comforts. Instead we bought an RV and doubled towed. Then when the kids wanted to go "offshore" we bought a larger boat. For lakes and inland waterways. Stick to a small boat and "hotel-it" for the overnights.

I like my Holder 20 because it has a retratable keel. I can raise and lower the mast without any help (although two people makes a world of difference) and in a good blow she is wicked-fast. Fast is fun. But the best part. I paid $4,000 for the package. That is boat, trailer, outboard and a new set of sails.

Set up is easy. I usually take my time so that I don't make any mistakes, get stressed out. So I get it all done in under 30 minutes by myself (raise the mast, launch the boat, sialing away from the dock) but I can do it in under 10 if I really needed to.

You can buy a Macgregor but you'll pay 4-10 times that amount.

A Hobie 33 is a good trailer-sailor But the larger size usually means higher cost. And they're hard to find in a retractable keel set up for less than $20K.

BTW, my Holder20 sits in covered storage in TX. I no longer use it. Make me a reasonable offer and she's yours. Those boats are equally hard to find.
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Old 22-05-2016, 04:57   #60
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Re: Sailboats that can be trailered easily.

I've had both a Siren 17 and a Sirius 21. Wouldn't recommend the 17. 21 was ok when I was younger and didn't mind "camping on the water" Fine for a CLOSE couple but no more for anything but a day sail.
I usually sail solo, to be honest boat size doesn't make much difference to me sailing. Docking solo is another skill set all together!
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