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Old 06-04-2014, 05:28   #76
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Re: Sailboat went off course into Algeria

Regarding cyber command....well I guess you missed the joke. It was a wry comment about the OP who said he could not locate the US embassy online. You must have missed that part in the earlier posts. As for weather, yes I am well aware that Malta is not Algiers but I tried to find what I could about Algiers and Malta. It was not clear where they were when they changed course (west of Algiers? East of Algiers?)but again, if you read previous posts you would have seen there was good to moderate conditions in Algiers--did you see that? Nothing near Force 9. Anyhow, again you want to poke fun of me. You think I have all the burden of proof, which is wrong, but I am trying to learn what I can so somebody cooks my goose over that too and insults me. Look, I'll say it again--of course the story may be true but too many things do not add up and still don't. Your weather comparisons don't really add up either for a variety of reasons but I got what information I could not knowing exact dates or locations. I have never presumed to know about the Med as I am sure you and others do but I do know how far Malta is from Algiers. As I had said in my last post "I'm done here unless I find something new or enlightening...(ok everyone breathe a deep sigh of relief...) which I will share--even if it means I was wrong... ! Thank you."
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Old 06-04-2014, 05:36   #77
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Re: Sailboat went off course into Algeria

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Originally Posted by Paul Annapolis View Post
I do know how far Malta is from Algiers.
A quick look at google maps would have told you there is a long distance between the two and yet you accuse the OP of being fake because they could not find who to contact.

Maybe you are fake?
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Old 06-04-2014, 06:17   #78
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Re: Sailboat went off course into Algeria

Again, we do not know exactly where the boat was or when it changed course. The synoptic conditions were of course for a large part of the Med that likely included Malta and Algiers but I DID post info about Algiers actual observed weather conditions. Yes--maybe I am fake but if nobody seems to care if a hoax has been perpetrated, so what? Maybe this is a hoax too! Again--I am trying to get real facts and on the one hand I am accused of investigating and on the other I am accused of not investigating properly. Remember the boat delivery froim Nassau thread a few weeks ago? Nothing added up there either and many agreed with me that it seemed quite odd but the acrimony here is really distressing. When I can ascertain the story I will apologize if I am wrong but it still seems odd. So...
It is discouraging how many people are shocked by honesty and how few by deceit.
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Old 06-04-2014, 06:29   #79
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Re: Sailboat went off course into Algeria

Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckr View Post
we are in tunisia and there is a real nasty out there right now -- we got 25-40k winds in the marina around the coast and in protection -- a very substantial low came thru the area and if the capt saw it he headed in as any smart sailor would do -- and yea probably not a lot of wifi in that part of the world -- kinda controlled you know

not surprising at all

but i got to love those annapolis sailors -- most are just the greatest sailors in the world who can't find their way out the bay -- great sailors no doubt but --- the only place we sailed to and stopped a couple of times and never ever want to go back to as we got verbally abused for anchoring to close, should not be here regardless of what the chart shows, threats of calling the harbor master ect -- never had that problem anywhere else just annapolis -

as for why here -- maybe the gf told him about this site or maybe a hoax -- if true then good to go -- if false then it was nice to see that this forum helped someone out who needed help and just shows the knowledge base here --
pity you never looked at passage weather,or the ais locator for the yacht,but why let facts get in the way of a good story!

these guys are actually THERE NOW,and corroborate the WX for the last few days...........
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Old 06-04-2014, 06:46   #80
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Re: Sailboat went off course into Algeria

Oh here we go again....I looked at observed actual weather for Algiers for the period of late March and early April. There was nothing near Force 9 winds. Again-it showed 10-25 kts. Yet some continue to beat me up about this. As for the weather in the last few days, that has nothing to do with weather from late March and the first few days of April. Huh--April Fools Day? How could I or anyone use the AIS locator--assuming there was one if we do not know the name of the boat? And yet you know we know nothing about an AIS locator! You ask "Why let facts get in the way of a good story?" Again-I am trying to ascertain the facts and on the one hand you pummel me for doing it and then you claim I am not interested in facts and then you claim my facts are wrong. Making fun of every singly sailor from Annapolis or the Chesapeake is well, you know that that is. I will again state that this story may be true but many things do not add up. And whether or not there was bad weather or not is not really the issue. It's about the odd things that don't add up. This is a political diplomatic thing and not a sea safety story after all. The boat was always safe-yes? Te worry was over the crew in a foreign port. And I will again write "When I can ascertain the story I will admit it and apologize if I am wrong but it still seems odd." So how about YOU stick to the facts--if you can ascertain them?
It is discouraging how many people are shocked by honesty and how few by deceit.
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Old 06-04-2014, 06:47   #81
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Re: Sailboat went off course into Algeria

Going back to arcticcatmatt's original post, he mentions a GPS tracker:

"The GPS locator says it went off course all of a sudden about 2 days ago and headed right towards Algiers, Algeria. [...] They went right to the Navy/Military spot on the dock, then last dot is 100 yards away at the shipping dock parking area. [...] they can only send messages back here if they can find wifi. Starting to worry as the dot hasn't headed back out to sea in a couple days."

Sounds like it might be a SPOT with tracking turned on, and no one bothered to hit the "OK" message button because they didn't consider that anything extraordinary had occurred.

So if it's a SPOT, and if Matt hasn't utterly abandoned this crazy thread, maybe he can post a link to the SPOT page for the boat. That ought to settle things a bit. . . .
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Old 06-04-2014, 09:00   #82
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Re: Sailboat went off course into Algeria

Wow....

The reality is we don't care whether the story was true or fake. It had a good ending. If fake, it didn't hurt anyone. If someone comes to me begging for money, then I care. Someone asks me a question online then I really don't care. I'm not personally hurt. I'm not robbed of anything. The board integrity wasn't damaged as the advice still is worthwhile. No one was given false information which will get them in trouble.

I care about fake if it hurts anyone. But otherwise, I'm just going to assume those here are telling the truth. If I didn't I'd be miserable. I would bet 30% of those here have embellished a story at one time or another. I don't care. Ok, the fish was 3 pounds, not 4. The waves were 6, not 8. The wind was 20 knots, not 25. And their boat cost $200,000 not $250,000. They spend $6,000 per month, not $3,000.

Are we going to now require everyone posting to undergo a lie detector test? Take a truth serum?

I'm far more bothered when the forum takes an ugly turn into personal attacks or bitter political fights, that whether a story like this one is true or not. Story should have been over when person found safe. End of story. Frankly, I'd rather read some creative fiction than ugly fact sometimes. Web forums are like reality television shows. We don't know how much is real but we can still enjoy. And don't say no one enjoys reality tv. The ratings prove otherwise.
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Old 06-04-2014, 09:06   #83
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Re: Sailboat went off course into Algeria

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Originally Posted by hoppy View Post
Maybe you are fake?
Oh he may be in more ways than won.
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Old 06-04-2014, 09:49   #84
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Re: Sailboat went off course into Algeria

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Annapolis View Post
Oh here we go again....I looked at observed actual weather for Algiers for the period of late March and early April. There was nothing near Force 9 winds. Again-it showed 10-25 kts.
Do you understand that the weather conditions/forecast for a coastal city can be very different to the conditions experienced as little as just a few miles off shore?

I would expect that you should know that as you proudly boast that you come from "the sailing capital of the world" LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL
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Old 07-04-2014, 07:07   #85
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Re: Sailboat went off course into Algeria

Enough already. Yes I fully understand that sailing conditions can be different at a coastal city than further offshore as I've been in such situations hundreds of times--but that's not the point here. Puhh lease! The acrimony, unpleasantness, negativity and insults here are astonishing as I am made out to be a bad guy, an idiot, a terrible sailor, narcissist, a nutcase ad infinitum as nauseum because I raised questions and tried to answer them.
I still believe my concerns were and are legitimate. I still believe that hoaxes are wrong and must be brought to light. I still believe this is a good forum where mostly good sailors do try to enhance boating for the greater good. I have tried on numerous occasions to provide information, answer questions and be of assistance. Having said that I am also more than happy to concede that this was probably--and I say probably not a hoax because I've not been able to corroborate anything except a couple of private messages from the OP. I received no response from the MRCC.
Nobody on this site has really been able to verify weather details because we are unsure of the exact place or date but when I tried to do so, my sanity and everything else was questioned and I got dragged over the coals. What this appears to be was that a particularly naive and inexperienced person was worried about a friend and came here for help-something about which I think we all agree, and he really had no clue about much of anything--the boat, the route, the weather, the location. ALL and I mean all he had was a GPS tracking device which led him to believe the boat was at a navy dock in Algiers and he was worried because there were State Department travel warnings. All legitimate...or so I think. Even by his own admission to me there were no Force 9 winds. He was guessing and he knows nothing about sailing anyhow. He still did not say why the boat diverted and why nobody contacted him. But--hear me out please. At this point this was a political and diplomatic not a sea safety issue--yes? The boat was safe at a port but maybe the crew was in danger.
This OP who claims to use a GPS, does mechanical work and run an online forum himself told me he did not know how to dial outside the US, could not find any information about the Department of State (claiming that two phone numbers given to him here were inoperable although I found they did work), told me he was unaware that there was not a US Embassy in the states but only in foreign countries, and never explained why he had no comms with his friend in Algiers,, although now it is pretty clear he could not dial outside of the US because he did not know about dialing a country code first (which may not have mattered with a cell phone...maybe but he told me did not know how to do it)
In any event, it was never my intention to malign anyone as I raised questions and sought answers. I know that many good people on here jumped to action to respond and that's great and worthy of respect--as I indicated previously. Their actions helped this person--or so it appears, and he did need a lot of help.
However, if our intent is to build a community, and that is based on mutual respect and honesty, then I believe that some of the respondents here should think twice about the nastiness and mean spirited nature of some of their comments directed toward me. While I genuinely raised questions and sought answers I became the subject--the subject of a smear campaign yet all along I said that if I were wrong I would admit it.
So was I wrong? Apparently I was, if it can be based solely on the private messages I received from the OP. He insists he had no reason to lie. I believe he was in a panic, over reacted and did not have the experience or problem solving ability to figure what needed to be done which was to simply contact the US embassy. A simple web search of keywords such as US citizens abroad or US citizens help in foreign countries immediately brings up good information and contacts for the US Department of State. Yet again--he was even provided two working numbers here but said they did not work. I think it is pretty evident as to why he could not reach the State Department.
I am a naturally skeptical person but I got labeled as a conspiracy theorist wearing a tin foil hat! That's really silly.
I am glad this man was helped. I am relieved his friend is safe. I am pleased that people here helped him--or at least tried. What this really appears to be is the story of a boat that may or may not have been in danger, that may or may not have been in a full gale and that for whatever reason, went to Algiers. Yes I am the only one here who questioned that but I stand by my reasoning for raising these questions.
Again, based only on two private emails from the OP which provided no details, no corroboration or further information (and he was unable to provide anything else online either) it appears that his story is true. I have only his word to go by.
If we lived in an age where a person's word meant everything, where there were no internet impostors or scams and were everything was as it appears to be, this would never have happened. I would certainly have replied with information about contacting the US Embassy in Algiers but others beat me to it but when he said he could not reach the US Embassy...well I had to wonder.
My intent was never to rub anyone's nose in anything, but to get to the bottom of this.
So again, and finally, and please, no more....can we be done? The basic story of his friend's boat seeking shelter in Algiers is probably true and I apologize for causing any offense. Let's put this bed with whatever lessons we all may have learned. Fair enough?
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Old 07-04-2014, 07:19   #86
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Re: Sailboat went off course into Algeria

Of all the comments you make the one about Americans not being as to dial numbers outside their own country is the one that rings true.

Perhaps instead of the draft all Americans should be sent on a gov paid vacation to a foreign country

Dave
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Old 07-04-2014, 07:26   #87
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Re: Sailboat went off course into Algeria

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Originally Posted by Paul Annapolis View Post
Enough already. Yes I fully understand that sailing conditions can be different at a coastal city than further offshore as I've been in such situations hundreds of times--but that's not the point here. Puhh lease! The acrimony, unpleasantness, negativity and insults here are astonishing as I am made out to be a bad guy, an idiot, a terrible sailor, narcissist, a nutcase ad infinitum as nauseum because I raised questions and tried to answer them.
I still believe my concerns were and are legitimate. I still believe that hoaxes are wrong and must be brought to light. I still believe this is a good forum where mostly good sailors do try to enhance boating for the greater good. I have tried on numerous occasions to provide information, answer questions and be of assistance. Having said that I am also more than happy to concede that this was probably--and I say probably not a hoax because I've not been able to corroborate anything except a couple of private messages from the OP. I received no response from the MRCC.
Nobody on this site has really been able to verify weather details because we are unsure of the exact place or date but when I tried to do so, my sanity and everything else was questioned and I got dragged over the coals. What this appears to be was that a particularly naive and inexperienced person was worried about a friend and came here for help-something about which I think we all agree, and he really had no clue about much of anything--the boat, the route, the weather, the location. ALL and I mean all he had was a GPS tracking device which led him to believe the boat was at a navy dock in Algiers and he was worried because there were State Department travel warnings. All legitimate...or so I think. Even by his own admission to me there were no Force 9 winds. He was guessing and he knows nothing about sailing anyhow. He still did not say why the boat diverted and why nobody contacted him. But--hear me out please. At this point this was a political and diplomatic not a sea safety issue--yes? The boat was safe at a port but maybe the crew was in danger.
This OP who claims to use a GPS, does mechanical work and run an online forum himself told me he did not know how to dial outside the US, could not find any information about the Department of State (claiming that two phone numbers given to him here were inoperable although I found they did work), told me he was unaware that there was not a US Embassy in the states but only in foreign countries, and never explained why he had no comms with his friend in Algiers,, although now it is pretty clear he could not dial outside of the US because he did not know about dialing a country code first (which may not have mattered with a cell phone...maybe but he told me did not know how to do it)
In any event, it was never my intention to malign anyone as I raised questions and sought answers. I know that many good people on here jumped to action to respond and that's great and worthy of respect--as I indicated previously. Their actions helped this person--or so it appears, and he did need a lot of help.
However, if our intent is to build a community, and that is based on mutual respect and honesty, then I believe that some of the respondents here should think twice about the nastiness and mean spirited nature of some of their comments directed toward me. While I genuinely raised questions and sought answers I became the subject--the subject of a smear campaign yet all along I said that if I were wrong I would admit it.
So was I wrong? Apparently I was, if it can be based solely on the private messages I received from the OP. He insists he had no reason to lie. I believe he was in a panic, over reacted and did not have the experience or problem solving ability to figure what needed to be done which was to simply contact the US embassy. A simple web search of keywords such as US citizens abroad or US citizens help in foreign countries immediately brings up good information and contacts for the US Department of State. Yet again--he was even provided two working numbers here but said they did not work. I think it is pretty evident as to why he could not reach the State Department.
I am a naturally skeptical person but I got labeled as a conspiracy theorist wearing a tin foil hat! That's really silly.
I am glad this man was helped. I am relieved his friend is safe. I am pleased that people here helped him--or at least tried. What this really appears to be is the story of a boat that may or may not have been in danger, that may or may not have been in a full gale and that for whatever reason, went to Algiers. Yes I am the only one here who questioned that but I stand by my reasoning for raising these questions.
Again, based only on two private emails from the OP which provided no details, no corroboration or further information (and he was unable to provide anything else online either) it appears that his story is true. I have only his word to go by.
If we lived in an age where a person's word meant everything, where there were no internet impostors or scams and were everything was as it appears to be, this would never have happened. I would certainly have replied with information about contacting the US Embassy in Algiers but others beat me to it but when he said he could not reach the US Embassy...well I had to wonder.
My intent was never to rub anyone's nose in anything, but to get to the bottom of this.
So again, and finally, and please, no more....can we be done? The basic story of his friend's boat seeking shelter in Algiers is probably true and I apologize for causing any offense. Let's put this bed with whatever lessons we all may have learned. Fair enough?
You write a mile long thing saying "no more....can we be done?" Do you just have to get the last word in? You could have written nothing more and it likely would have been done. I just love it when someone talks and talks and talks and then says "discussion over" right as the other person starts to speak. lol

Has the fat lady sung?
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