Sailboat Age Discrimination - West Coast Ca.

[Montanan]

They have the same application terms and procedures for permanent slips as they do for Guest slips, albeit I suspect the rates are considerably higher for a Guest slip given all the transactional burden of such short stay rental effort and the likely higher market rate acceptance value.

Reviewing a survey is a notable effort and requires a degree of skill to discern which likely is not worth the effort except for dealing with either a large boat which will avail higher value per day and for guests that will remain for a considerable period of time, say a week, two week or a month or more. The marina's insurance policy likely requires a sound survey for older boats and of course that the vessels insurance policy meets specific standards and covenants. It takes an expert to read and write insurance policies, not even one in 10 cruisers have the requisite understanding of the fine points. Just about every cruiser has boilerplate language and scope of coverages in their policies. I know the challenges of dealing with insurance because part of my responsibilities as an officer of corporations is to obtain adequate and full scope of coverages. We utilize a special risk management firm on retained engagement which writes each of our extensive policies and then has the insurance underwriters accept the custom language policies and bid on underwriting based on the specific language. They don't use the policies written by the underwriters, instead the terms are written on behalf of the insured. It costs a lot to have such expertise engaged but it is required to have the venture capital, and private family-equity offices and the key Board of Directors involved otherwise they would not participate as equity participants or as Directors / Officers. Similar thing happened when we asked the Chairman / CEO of Fireman's Fund Insurance to join the board of my previous employer. He had the policies rewritten to his discerning satisfaction and then underwritten by high grade insurance firms [not his company for obvious conflict of interest reasons] before he accepted a position on the pharmaceutical company's board of directors.

Short term "transient" rentals for smallish boats is just likely not their prime business model especially for a major holiday weekend [peak season] when they can lease their marina for higher value and less transactional burden.

Not unlike asking to rent an AirBnB for a single day or just a few days. If the property is in demand one can readily attain a week or longer minimums.

I can fully understand the business perspective. Cross the T's and dot the I's, and besure the $$$ is worthy of the effort of pursuing the transaction.

[Shrew]

Originally Posted by SV Mia Noi

They are providing a service but discriminating against age. Isn't that illegal? Or does it only apply to a living thing?

Civil liberties don't extend to inanimate objects. They can implement any policy they want. They could easily say the boat is too small. The fact that they gave a reason beyond "We have no availability for those dates" is a bit surprising.

This could be part of their insurance to reduce premiums.

[Mike OReilly]

It’s a temporary dock rental, not the borrowing of a Fabergé Egg. Like I said, I’d really want/need to go to this marina to even consider going through all those ridiculous hoops.

The clear message is they don’t really want this business. So why even bother make it available at all? Or maybe be explicit: We only want you if you are very wealthy.

BTW Mark, it’s amusing to consider this as an example of "out of control liberal idiots”. If you wanted to make any political connection, which I’m not sure why you would, then surely the more obvious one is to conservative ideology.

[john61ct]

Snobbery and classism in Real Life actions likely is neutral wrt left-right ideology.

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

maybe be explicit: We only want you if you are very wealthy.

Plenty of businesses are pretty explicit about that, wealthy people are very happy to pay premiums to not be exposed to the hoi polloi.

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

It’s a temporary dock rental, not the borrowing of a Fabergé Egg. Like I said, I’d really want/need to go to this marina to even consider going through all those ridiculous hoops.

The clear message is they don’t really want this business. So why even bother make it available at all? Or maybe be explicit: We only want you if you are very wealthy.

BTW Mark, it’s amusing to consider this as an example of "out of control liberal idiots”. If you wanted to make any political connection, which I’m not sure why you would, then surely the more obvious one is to conservative ideology.

The options are few for a transient slip as the only locations along that southern California stretch are Marina Del Ray, the Royal which has turned you down or Long Beach. And there aren't any sheltered anchorages that I am aware of. So it is a matter of want and willingness to jump the hoops. The want needing to be mutual, the vessel owner and the marina operator.

Kick in attempting to lease for a peak weekend, Memorial Day well then things become much harder. Kind of like trying to get an Uber or Lyft at a peaking event, if available, doubtful, the cost will be far greater, or renting a room or a car when there is a convention in town. Be prepared to pay 2 to 3 times higher than standard and / or to have to travel a considerable distance away.

This issue is about market dynamics and you are dealing with a marketplace with limited supply side so not favoring the consumer of services.

Is your boat trailered, if so I would suggest day / evening sailing and place the boat back on it trailer for the evening and hopefully be able to be able to store the trailered boat at a marina and not have to bother with stepping the mast and removing the sails and outboard to haul it away from a public ramp.

I don't see anything about this that involves anything to do with any ideology or wealth. It does factor in income [the generation there of] and the market for marina services is self regulated by the collective demand of the consumers. As always with economic transactions, one needs to delineate between wanting business [desire and amenability] and needing business, or having the capacity for or allowance for business. I have learned from many business dealings that there are two sides to a transaction and it is best to view the prospect from the otherside before completing the assessment of your side of a transaction.

Hoping the weather will be grand and you enjoy the holiday weekend.

[NorthCoastJoe]

BTW Mark, it’s amusing to consider this as an example of "out of control liberal idiots”. If you wanted to make any political connection, which I’m not sure why you would, then surely the more obvious one is to conservative ideology.[/QUOTE]

I agree with Mike, if it was a liberal run marina, anything goes.
Conservative and uptight might be a better term.

[Montanan]

FYI.

There are a few public guest dock slots at Marina Del Rey, but you and a few hundred others likely will be trying to get them.

Guest Docks & Pump-Out – (Main Channel - between Basin G & H)

Available at Burton Chace Park - 13650 Mindanao Way. For information, call 310.305.9595, between 8:00 a.m. – 8:00 p.m. daily.

Four-Hour Guest Docks: Free of charge. Registration is not required. No reservations taken; available first-come, first-served.

Overnight Guest Docks: Visitors must register in the Burton Chace Park Office located in the center of the park.

A valid photo I.D. and current boat registration are required. No reservations taken; available first-come, first-served.
• Length of Stay: Seven-day maximum stay within a (30)-day period is permitted. Check-out time is 12 p.m. noon on the last paid day.
• Fees: Rate $1.15/ft. per night; minimum fee is $8.00. Slip fees must be paid at the time of arrival. Cash and credit cards (MC/Visa) are accepted.
• After Hours Registration: If you arrive after operating hours, you will be expected to register the next morning and compensate for the night before.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by SV Mia Noi

I sail a 1978 Catalina 22 which I fully overhauled, rebuilt and refitted new hardware in 2015.

I'm proud of my small boat. Small boats make good sailors and I plan to keep on sailing her until I can afford a bigger one, or the wife lets my sell the house so we can go Cruising!

Word. Small boats are big fun.

And we're the best marina customers. They can fit us in anywhere, especially if we have a retracting keel. Does anyone appreciate a hot shower and a porcelain toilet more than a small-boater?

Anyway, I hope you're successful in finding a slip for your weekend.

[hamburking]

Wait till YOU get as old as your boat...you'll find that you become invisible. Getting any kind of service is difficult to get.

[sailorboy1]

a lot of pissing and moaning to the plain fact that some places are just a LOT bigger PITA that others

I have been in mooring fields from Maine to Key West and up to Sarasota FL and couldn't believe how much a PITA checking into my current mooring ball was in comparison to everywhere else

[JPA Cate]

Not everything has to be politicized. Stupidity in policy is not necessarily a conspiracy.

Mia Noi should show them the survey, and be done with it, if he has one. The boat looks okay from the picture, there should be no problem. Most likely at this late date, if they take pre-bookings (many marinas do not), they probably don't have any left for the Memorial Day Weekend. maybe rafted up across the stern of a large power yacht......

I would think most places could squeeze in a Catalina 22, somewhere.

Ann

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by hamburking

Wait till YOU get as old as your boat...you'll find that you become invisible. Getting any kind of service is difficult to get.

Hey, you might be onto something there Hamburking.

If the boat is old, shouldn't it receive senior discounts, say 50% the young boat's rate per foot and senior's privileges.

Senior discounts are provided for many things, including commuter ferry ride tickets.

And if the owner and the boat are old shouldn't they be favored to get double discounts, 50% off of 50%, so say 25% all in.

Senior status is working for me recently, being of 1957 vintage.

As to becoming invisible, that might work really well, because they can't charge you if they don't see you, so just slide the boat into the slip and say, What boat? I don't see no boat?

But you had best keep your AIS transmitting when transiting as an invisible boat could make for some challenging navigational hazards. The COLREG requirement of keeping a watch doesn't work very well with invisible vessels. I'm thinking all invisible boats should consider themselves to be the give way boat and never the stand on boat.

[geoleo]

Originally Posted by SV Mia Noi

I sail a 1978 Catalina 22 which I fully overhauled, rebuilt and refitted new hardware in 2015.

I tried to book a guest slip at Port Royal Marina in King Harbor (Redondo Beach Ca.) for the Memorial Day Weekend. I emailed my insurance details, registration and a photo of my Catalina 22 to the Port Royal Marina Office Manager.

The Manager replied quote:
"Good Morning,

I am sorry but we cannot rent you due to the year of your vessel. We only rent guest slips to vessels that are 1990 or newer."

Anyone else had this happen to them? They are providing a service but discriminating against age. Isn't that illegal? Or does it only apply to a living thing?

I can only assume they want to keep their marina gentrified with newer boats or keep financially strapped liveaboards from setting down roots.

If it's an issue with Port Royal Marina's insurance - that only covers boats newer than 1990, then say that. Don't discriminate against older boats.

I'm proud of my small boat. Small boats make good sailors and I plan to keep on sailing her until I can afford a bigger one, or the wife lets my sell the house so we can go Cruising!

Years ago -2004- I shipped my loved 35ft wood ketch to a boatyard in Tampa Bay, when it arrived I was told they wouldn't unload it because it was wood. Had to scramble to find a decenter place and pay truck a days demurrage.The whole world is unfair! And I am not a democrat.

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by David Mark

Being from So Cal , and in a older marina , C Y M Wilmington Shores Ca . What is happening is , As the old managers leave the new bean counting Corporate P O S 's , that don't now the bow from the stern, take over , they only go by the book and have no clue to take a look at your boat and its condition before making a intelligent decision . the lawyers and insurance people are dictating what they can do , In our marina the office girl can't even go on the dock on a regular basses . Good Luck , as everyone know's California is out of control with liberal idiots running our state and this is just part of it .

FYI.

CYM = California Yacht Marina

The CYM Port Royal Marina and the CYM Wilmington Shores marina having the same owners also have exactly the same terms and procedure of application for slips which terms and procedures for application are the same for either the permanent or the Guest slips.

The Corporate policies are probably identical, but in practice the application of which is often localized as generally there is a local marina manager, albeit the local manager reports up the chain to a corporate manager.

CYM owns:

In the LA harbor:
The Cabrillo Marina and the Wilmington Marina

In the King Harbor:
The Port Royal Marina, the marina this post is about.

San Diego, [not to be confused with Sand Iego].
The Chula Vista marina.

[oleman]

Originally Posted by SV Mia Noi

I sail a 1978 Catalina 22 which I fully overhauled, rebuilt and refitted new hardware in 2015.

I tried to book a guest slip at Port Royal Marina in King Harbor (Redondo Beach Ca.) for the Memorial Day Weekend. I emailed my insurance details, registration and a photo of my Catalina 22 to the Port Royal Marina Office Manager.

The Manager replied quote:
"Good Morning,

I am sorry but we cannot rent you due to the year of your vessel. We only rent guest slips to vessels that are 1990 or newer."

Anyone else had this happen to them? They are providing a service but discriminating against age. Isn't that illegal? Or does it only apply to a living thing?

I can only assume they want to keep their marina gentrified with newer boats or keep financially strapped liveaboards from setting down roots.

If it's an issue with Port Royal Marina's insurance - that only covers boats newer than 1990, then say that. Don't discriminate against older boats.

I'm proud of my small boat. Small boats make good sailors and I plan to keep on sailing her until I can afford a bigger one, or the wife lets my sell the house so we can go Cruising!

First started when California banned 2 stroke outboards and inboards from boats, nobody cared because they were saving some ones version of the environment. Now it's expanded into just age based restrictions. If someone wants to equate old boats into "owned by old people" possibly we could get a chance on human age discrimination that is established in common law. Me, I just grin and bear-it or move to some place where my views are respected.