Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 25-08-2013, 17:06   #61
Registered User

Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 60
Re: Sailboat about to be clobbered by a 100-foot rouge wave (pic)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt Rottnest View Post
The pic looks to be dragged from sites describing the '98 Sydney-Hobart, so I'd say its from that race, where 5 boats sank and 6 lost their lives. A rough year that one.

Yeah you are right. The pic is from the '98 Sydney-Hobart.

1998 Sydney to Hobart Yacht Race - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And here's the website where I found the image -

Into the Eye of the Storm - the Sydney to Hobart Tragedy
__________________

__________________
watersofdiego is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-08-2013, 17:26   #62
CF Adviser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Boat: Custom Van De Stadt 47 Samoa
Posts: 3,743
Re: Sailboat about to be clobbered by a 100-foot rouge wave (pic)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rakuflames View Post
That's interesting. I've been looking at ATN gale sails. They go from 30 sq feet to 60. I think 60 might be too much for my boat because her bow is so responsive. But I don't know.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rakuflames View Post

I've heard a number of people refer to their 100% sail as their "storm sail."
The offshore special regs define a storm jib as "e) a storm jib of area not greater than 5% height of the foretriangle squared, with luff maximum length 65% height of the foretriangle "

And some believe that is now a bit big (for extreme conditions) for modern race boats with their very high rigs and sail area.


Edit: just to add . . . the ORC also defines a lightly bigger: "f) a heavy-weather jib (or heavy-weather sail in a yacht with no forestay) of area not greater than 13.5% height of the foretriangle squared;
__________________

__________________
estarzinger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-08-2013, 17:47   #63
Long Range Cruiser
 
MarkJ's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Australian living on "Sea Life" currently in England.
Boat: Beneteau 393 "Sea Life"
Posts: 12,828
Images: 25
Re: Sailboat about to be clobbered by a 100-foot rouge wave (pic)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
page 545

You read 545 pages????????????????????????????????????????????? ????
__________________
Notes on a Circumnavigation.
OurLifeAtSea.com

Somalia Pirates and our Convoy
MarkJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-08-2013, 17:53   #64
Senior Cruiser
 
roverhi's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Kona, Hawaii, Carlsbad, CA
Boat: 1969 Pearson 35 #108 & 1976 Sabre 28
Posts: 6,003
Send a message via Yahoo to roverhi
Re: Sailboat about to be clobbered by a 100-foot rouge wave (pic)

In strong winds, there is no way a boat will beat to weather with a storm jib, alone. With all the wind pressure on the sail at the bow, you'll be lucky to get the boat to head up to 90 degrees off the relative wind. If you feel the need to be able to go to windward in storm conditions, you need a storm trisail or a main with reef paints that will pull it down to handkerchief size. You need the sail area aft of the mast that will drive the bow up and counter act the force on the storm jib. In severe conditions, the storm jib can do little more than keep the bow pointing down wind.

Not unusual to read about boats who have been forced to strike all sail and are running under bare poles because tne winds are so strong. Don't know if I'd want to be on the bow hanking on even a very small storm jib in survival conditions.
__________________
Peter O.
'Ae'a Pearson 35
roverhi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-08-2013, 17:53   #65
Long Range Cruiser
 
MarkJ's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Australian living on "Sea Life" currently in England.
Boat: Beneteau 393 "Sea Life"
Posts: 12,828
Images: 25
Re: Sailboat about to be clobbered by a 100-foot rouge wave (pic)

Quote:
Originally Posted by estarzinger View Post
boats very often get into trouble (rolled) after the very worst of the storm has passed and the waves are still large, but the wind has dropped and shifted direction. This often has the boats wallowing and beam on to the waves, and the skippers (who are often fried at this point) don't react quickly enough to the changed situation, and they get popped on the beam by the still 'large enough' left over waves.
.
That would be a good thought to add to your essay on heavy weather sailing in modern boats. BTW can you post another link to it? Mine is lost somewhere and I would like to read it again and save it.


Mark
__________________
Notes on a Circumnavigation.
OurLifeAtSea.com

Somalia Pirates and our Convoy
MarkJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-08-2013, 18:10   #66
CF Adviser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Boat: Custom Van De Stadt 47 Samoa
Posts: 3,743
Re: Sailboat about to be clobbered by a 100-foot rouge wave (pic)

Quote:
Originally Posted by roverhi View Post
In strong winds, there is no way a boat will beat to weather with a storm jib, alone. .
mmmm . . . . . It just so happens that 'upwind with just the storm jib' was in fact one of the most successful techniques employed in this Hobart storm. They would 'close reach' (at 50-60 apparent angle) across the backs of the waves and come up to 'close hauled' (30-40 apparent) to punch thru the crests, and then fall off again to the close reach to avoid 'falling off' the back of the wave.

The general consensus in the aftermath was that the ORC sized trisails were more 'too big' than the storm jibs.

But note . . . . . these were race boats, with full crew, excellent helms, high stability, and great sailing performance. These are not mom and pop on an overloaded cruising boat, which typically can't sail upwind without the motor even in perfect conditions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkJ View Post
That would be a good thought to add to your essay on heavy weather sailing in modern boats. BTW can you post another link to it? Mine is lost somewhere and I would like to read it again and save it.
Mark
Link

That's really focused on the sailing (and drag devices) aspects.

Somewhere I have a piece on storms that looks at the bigger picture of leadership, and when to focus on what. But I don't think it's posted anywhere. I wrote it a long time ago and my thinking has probably changed/evolved quite a bit. I should sometime find it and update it.

By the way, I agree with you about the wind in that photo. One trick/tip - there is very visible 'smoke' in 60kts. Its really a noticeable 'phase change' in the surface, which allows you to easily judge a photo over or under 60kts.
__________________
estarzinger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-08-2013, 18:27   #67
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Toronto area when not cruising
Boat: Bristol 45.5
Posts: 668
Re: Sailboat about to be clobbered by a 100-foot rouge wave (pic)

I find it hard enough to estimate wave nights when I am sitting in the cockpit and here people are arguing about the height of a wave from a video capture from the perspective of a helicopter. Better eyes than I Gunga Din.

Just looking at it, it seems nasty, but not I am going to die nasty. The really horrible happened earlier when it was too windy for a helicopter to be taking pictures.
__________________
Still looking for our next boat. Have decided we want to have something that will keep us happy for the next 10 years or so. By then I will be pushing 80 and if i am still sailing that will be a very good thing.
AiniA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-08-2013, 20:55   #68
cruiser

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Tampa Bay area
Boat: Hunter 31'
Posts: 5,731
Re: Sailboat about to be clobbered by a 100-foot rouge wave (pic)

Quote:
Originally Posted by estarzinger View Post

The offshore special regs define a storm jib as "e) a storm jib of area not greater than 5% height of the foretriangle squared, with luff maximum length 65% height of the foretriangle "

And some believe that is now a bit big (for extreme conditions) for modern race boats with their very high rigs and sail area.


Edit: just to add . . . the ORC also defines a lightly bigger: "f) a heavy-weather jib (or heavy-weather sail in a yacht with no forestay) of area not greater than 13.5% height of the foretriangle squared;

Don't get me wrong. I know a 100% sail is not a storm sail. I think what these people are really saying is "That's my smallest headsail."
__________________
Rakuflames is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-08-2013, 22:25   #69
Registered User
 
Delancey's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Miami, FL
Boat: sunk by irma
Posts: 3,462
Re: Sailboat about to be clobbered by a 100-foot rouge wave (pic)

Quote:
Originally Posted by estarzinger View Post
mmmm . . . . . It just so happens that 'upwind with just the storm jib' was in fact one of the most successful techniques employed in this Hobart storm. They would 'close reach' (at 50-60 apparent angle) across the backs of the waves and come up to 'close hauled' (30-40 apparent) to punch thru the crests, and then fall off again to the close reach to avoid 'falling off' the back of the wave.
+1, have made 7 1/2 knots boatspeed to weather on a fully crewed J-35 with only a No. 4 blade and no mainsail in steady 75 knot winds with gusts to 83 knots. Could not look to weather, helmsman had to hide behind someone to see to drive the boat, had all the meat on the rail. Half dozen boats dismasted and many more retired, but we won our section that year.

I'd likely be soiling myself in that same situation with just my wife aboard our shoal draft cruising boat laden with all our junk. Scary stuff.

R.I.P. to those lost at sea.
__________________
Delancey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-08-2013, 22:55   #70
Registered User
 
Bashleys's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 63
The Wave: In Pursuit of the Rogues, Freaks, and Giants of the Ocean Susan Casey

Everything u ever wanted, or didn't want to know about, "Rogues".
__________________
Bashleys is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-08-2013, 02:08   #71
Registered User
 
Tymadman's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Boat: Farr 6000
Posts: 113
Re: Sailboat about to be clobbered by a 100-foot rouge wave (pic)

Interesting posts guys, but am I the only one to notice that despite the title of this thread the wave wasn't actually red :-)
__________________
Cheers,

Neil
http://www.madmanmarine.com
Tymadman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-08-2013, 02:10   #72
Moderator Emeritus
 
Coops's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Northern NSW.Australia
Boat: Sunmaid 20, John Welsford Navigator
Posts: 9,550
Re: Sailboat about to be clobbered by a 100-foot rouge wave (pic)

That is funny.

Coops.
__________________
When somebody told me that I was delusional, I almost fell off of my unicorn.
Coops is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-08-2013, 04:55   #73
cruiser

Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Palm City, Florida
Boat: Slocum 37
Posts: 228
Re: Sailboat about to be clobbered by a 100-foot rouge wave (pic)

Quote:
Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey View Post
That was also my first thought - holes (in the sea) as big as houses fairly normal........but I think this a bit different, if that a 40 foot boat then they are big (effing big!) waves and not much gap between them. The good news is that they are not breaking!, the bad news is that beam on - could roll (again) I guess but not a certainty..........probably a bit windy as well ...........of course not somewhere I would choose to be, especially with no mast (and no manoeuvrability)!!

In any event, I would prefer to still be on the boat than in a liferaft......or trying to climb up the side of a Ship!.....would think twice about a helicopter ride. lets hope if I ever get into that situation I still have WIFI and can ask CF . Would be like sitting in a washing machine - at that point would want to be on a boat made from more than veneered MDF.....but clearly that a YMMV thing.


Of course if she was racing then likely she was pushing her luck a bit to make progress rather than hunkering down (or running in a different direction!).....hence the rig loss, no guarantee of course would not have happened anyway.
I would have to agree with you on NOT leaving the boat. If she is not taking on water and not breaking up your best chance for survival is staying on board. But like the Perfect Storm what we probably have is a May Day and they are in the helicopter. Remember the captain of the West Sail 32 that survived that storm wanted to stay aboard but was ordered off.

No way would I go into a life raft in those seas unless I was sinking. I would have tried my best to run before it trailing warps or a drogue. Then again I sail a double ender which I believe would be the best thing to do in that type of boat...

RT
__________________
vtcapo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-08-2013, 05:00   #74
Armchair Bucketeer
 
David_Old_Jersey's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 10,013
Images: 4
Re: Sailboat about to be clobbered by a 100-foot rouge wave (pic)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tymadman View Post
Interesting posts guys, but am I the only one to notice that despite the title of this thread the wave wasn't actually red :-)
Beat me to that one!

In any event, I don't see that as being a "rogue" wave - as given the reported conditions a ginourmous wave or 3 to be expected. Unwelcome and inconvenient not the same as "rogue".
David_Old_Jersey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-08-2013, 05:52   #75
Moderator
 
HappyMdRSailor's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2008
Location: North Mississippi
Boat: 48 Wauquiez Pilot Saloon-C22 Chrysler Sunpiper- 19 Potter-Preparing to cruise w/my girl
Posts: 5,980
Re: Sailboat about to be clobbered by a 100-foot rouge wave (pic)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tymadman View Post
Interesting posts guys, but am I the only one to notice that despite the title of this thread the wave wasn't actually red :-)
Not even slightly "marooned"....

__________________

__________________
In the harsh marine environment, something is always in need of repair...

Mai Tai's fix everything...
HappyMdRSailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
sail, sailboat

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 06:08.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.