safety

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

Your boat your rules! It's not a democracy.

We don't allow people back on the boat a second time who won't listen and follow instructions.

[SV Bacchus]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

We don't allow people back on the boat a second time who won't listen and follow instructions.

They are a liability you don't need and I'm not talking financial.

[StuM]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

We don't allow people back on the boat a second time who won't listen and follow instructions.

+1

[SailingFan]

Ha! There was a VERY cute FWC officer here (well, in Palatka) who told me that if we did not have our life jackets on while on a boat in the St. John's River, we were getting citations. FWC lost an officer the weekend before, and they had really amped up rules enforcement.

Now, that is an inland waterway in Florida, it flows into the Atlantic ocean, we were in a dingy, and I think we had an outboard mounted, but she was pretty darned assertive about it.

She did mean to hand us tickets, had the book and pen at the ready, gun on hip, and the 9mm casehead earrings to go with the gun. She was not teasing us (but my brother in law was whispering he wanted her to take interest in him if she was not arresting anyone that day-she was cute!). They do take that seriously here, all the gear must be on board, jackets on while vessel in motion, etc. They can be any form of jacket that is approved for the locale, but you have to be wearing it. Properly at that.

Florida does not allow drinking and operation of a boat at the same time, either. They take dumping of waste in the water seriously, and they actively patrol to ensure that folks are not making idiots of themselves most of the time (I did have one patrol craft hit us with a 6 foot excessively short period wake once, from VERY close to us, as he was rocketing out to the Jacksonville Inlet and not watching what the hell he was doing or where he was going, managing to launch my wife about three feet into the air over the settee she was sleeping upon, but our boat handled it fine and the fellow never even looked back).

Outside Florida? I don't know. But I will say that if someone, regardless of who they are related to, refuses to follow the safety procedures on my vessel, we are either going to return to port and offload, or they are not going to come back once we do offload them. There is just no room for that sort of misbehavior when other lives are at stake on a vessel that counts on the actions of her crew to ensure that all the passengers and crew make it home again. Of course, I was Navy trained, and it stuck. Others may be used to shoddy crew behavior, I am only stating my position on it and why. If that fellow is critical to the action at discussion, so much the more important that (s)he behaves as an adult and safely performs tasks, because until someone else learns his job, he is irreplaceable while he does it. If you lose him, you are in trouble (definition of irreplaceable crewmembers). If he is not that irreplaceable, well, "See YA!"

Now, there are some pretty unobtrusive and inexpensive life preservers out there as others have already stated, and if that guy wants to not be encumbered, I get that. As others have also stated, there are some danged poorly designed and bulky, hot, preservers out there. He needs to get one of those other more comfortable ones, and use it, and then the problem goes away for everyone.

Otherwise, everyone is on the hook every time he goes forward with a risk of falling over the side and sinking (because most drowning victims are NOT wearing vests, and many are pretty strong swimmers to boot), requiring the vessel to come to a halt and retrieve him in the MOB process he likely never wants to practice either, and he likely does not know where the fire extinguishers, spare lines, extra knives, or repair inventories are, or what items currently exist in the first aid kit or how to use them. In short, he is a liability to you as crew in an emergency, just when you will need him most, if he is running the show and has no desire to ensure he is still on board if somehow he gets bashed by a boom or caught in a shredding sail or a large wave.

He gets on the ball on my boat or he gets to watch from the beach or someone else's boat. But that is my opinion, your mileage may vary, and your law enforcement people may have another idea on it. It is too bad that safety in the open ocean has become so optional that without someone overseeing us, free activity allows us to kill ourselves with stupid actions and so few are upset by things they can personally change when they are in the situation themselves.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

Slam gybe the boat while he's next to the boom. See if he stays on board.

If he does, apologize for doubting him.

Otherwise...see if his opinion changes after you get him out of the water. And take your time going back to find him.

I assume this is a feeble attempt at humor, otherwise.... it's the most inane post ever written on this forum.

[Aden]

Thanks for all replies. especially SailingFan

We have decent crewsaver automatic inflation life jackets on board. Everyone has different perspective of sailing. This relative person is an very experienced skipper but doesn't concern much about the safety procedures.

I agree that people won't be invited on board if they don't agree the rules on boat. If we say this to him, it will jeopardize our relationship. Tough !

[Cherod]

Seems to me we should be learning from the " very experienced " rather than dictating from behind a yellow vest which prob learned its safety culture sitting behind a desk being preached at by some jobsworthy protecting / furthering their own position / employment / career .

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by Aden

Thanks for all replies. especially SailingFan

We have decent crewsaver automatic inflation life jackets on board. Everyone has different perspective of sailing. This relative person is an very experienced skipper but doesn't concern much about the safety procedures.

I agree that people won't be invited on board if they don't agree the rules on boat. If we say this to him, it will jeopardize our relationship. Tough !

We had a guy onboard our Hunter who like your friend, thought he knew better and refused to follow instructions... said he was an experienced delivery skipper. He ended up jumping overboard without a life vest to save his dog which also didn't have a life vest, then I alone had to rescue the idiot and his dog.

I suggest you learn from my mistake.... I did. There's only room for one person in charge on a boat.

Point of fact: your "relationship" will definitely be "jeopordized" if the fool ends up drowning on your watch.

For the record, most people listen an understand even if they disagree. To date, we have only two people who'll never be invited back.

[Quebramar]

Sailing should be fun, I mean safe and fun - both go together I would think.

If this behaviour makes you uncomfortable, why not take the non-violent communication approach: speak about your view and discomfort, explain you enjoy him onboard and want to keep it that way yet that the lack of use of a PFD, largely recommended by authorities and experts even if sometimes just useless, makes an incident potentially turn into a catastrophe. If he maintains his view, meaning the hassle ofwearing the PFD is more important to him than your discomfort or else, then consider the consequences with him. It eventually ends up him making the call on what matters most to him and to you, not just selfishly to himself.

Hope this may help addressing this.

As a pretty newbie, fwiw, my ask is for everyone to wear one at all times except in harbour or on small canals. Nightly going on deck means tethering whoever may go.

[StuM]

While I agree with "my boat, my rules", it's worth pointing out that the OP doesn't say what sort of boat or where they are sailing, so we have no idea whether PFDs are indeed a reasonable requirement.

FWIW, I very, very rarely wear one - I wear a harness more often than I do a PFD

[danielamartindm]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

Slam gybe the boat while he's next to the boom. See if he stays on board.

If he does, apologize for doubting him.

Otherwise...see if his opinion changes after you get him out of the water. And take your time going back to find him.

Um....this could get someone killed.

[Pelagic]

My own take on enforcing lifejacket rules.

People are different and have different levels of comfort moving around a boat.

Especially if they work and live aboard a moving boat....then the boat's motion is 2nd nature to them!

Allow them their comfort level except when in heavy weather when the motion is severe.

[Snore]

Need more data to give good advice.

Where were you sailing? A lake or quiet bay like Tampa on a usual day? Or open ocean? We're conditions calm or was it blowing like snot?

I regularly singlehand chartered sailboats to 53'. When in the bay I am never tethered in. When any boat I am running goes open water, a jackline is set and crew uses a tether from sunset to sunrise and when I say it is too rough. If it is paid crew they follow orders or don't get paid if it was an owner or guest, I would not allow them on deck.

This bring up another question. What level are the OP's skills at? If truly a newbie, did they take ASA classes? Properly taught with a good instructor, they would understand about appropriate safety.

All that said, yes "your boat your rules". But if you told me to wear a PFD or harness when the Bay was a 1' chop and winds 10-15- I would comply on what might be my last ride on your boat.

Feel free to PM

[denverd0n]

Your boat, your rules. And it doesn't really matter if the life jacket is comfortable, or reasonable, or anything else. Your boat, your rules.

My wife's mother and father never wore seatbelts. First time they got in the car with me I told them they needed to buckle up. They balked. They argued. I told them we weren't leaving the driveway until they buckled up, and I did not really care if we sat there all day long. They got angry. I told them that I could live with them being angry at me. What I could NOT live with would be if we were in an accident, and they were killed or seriously injured, because they didn't have on their seatbelts.

They put on their belts, and we never argued about it again.

Your boat, your rules. It's as simple as that.

[hellosailor]

Partner, meaning "co-owner of the boat" or partner meaning, it is their boat, 100%, and you simply choose to live together?

If you are co-owners of the boat, then your partners acceptance of a lower safety standard could easily make you jointly liable if Mr. Gecko slipped off the boat. In which case you need to discuss that liability with your partner. The solution is on them: Change the rules, find a good lawyer and insurance policy, don't sail when Mr. Gecko is going to be on the boat, or...end of boat partnership. Many options, that can all be extended diplomatically to a "partner" of whatever kind.