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Old 21-03-2012, 14:46   #16
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Re: S/V Tres Hombres, a working sail freighter

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I'm not saying a sailing ship could not work, it's just going to be extremely difficult to compete with the higher costs and slower delivery times.
Agreed. One can imagine, however, a 1000 foot tanker with massive kite-assisted "sail power", and one can also picture less time-sensitive cargos in bulk that might be considerably cheaper to ship if they can be expected in a three-week window.

This relatively modest little ship may point the way much as carvels in the 14th century led to galleons, three-masted warships and eventually powered ships.
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Old 21-03-2012, 16:41   #17
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Re: S/V Tres Hombres, a working sail freighter

All depends upon just how bad things get. Perhaps, if there is some apolictic event, or given enough time sufficient fuel depletion, then sail will return.
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Old 21-03-2012, 18:42   #18
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Re: S/V Tres Hombres, a working sail freighter

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Because of the "proprietary" nature of the chemicals used, and because of the potential that shortcuts will pollute groundwater, I find fracking about the only fossil fuel technology that makes the Alberta tar sands look quite not so heinous.
Pejorative tar sands? They are the oil sands.

Maybe Ralph was right... "Let them eastern bastards freeze in the dark".

Oh, that's right, you guys use coal, not oil. Environmentally clean coal I bet.
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Old 21-03-2012, 19:26   #19
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To suggest any return to sail high tech or not is laughable. Firstly most trade routes these days are from A to B direct. Downwind routes often add 1000s of miles to journeys. Secondly there is the variability

Sorry modern transport demands have completely discounted variable delivery times. There's no going back. I'd say there's a better chance of battery powered cargo ships then any return to sail.

Ps there is stacks of coal around, why not a return to steam !!!

Dave
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Old 21-03-2012, 19:32   #20
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Re: S/V Tres Hombres, a working sail freighter

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To suggest any return to sail high tech or not is laughable. Firstly most trade routes these days are from A to B direct. Downwind routes often add 1000s of miles to journeys. Secondly there is the variability

Sorry modern transport demands have completely discounted variable delivery times. There's no going back. I'd say there's a better chance of battery powered cargo ships then any return to sail.

Ps there is stacks of coal around, why not a return to steam !!!

Dave

i think hybrid natural gas engines are the go now.
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Old 21-03-2012, 20:01   #21
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Re: S/V Tres Hombres, a working sail freighter

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Pejorative tar sands? They are the oil sands.

Maybe Ralph was right... "Let them eastern bastards freeze in the dark".

Oh, that's right, you guys use coal, not oil. Environmentally clean coal I bet.
May the F.O.R.C.E. be with you!

F.O.R.C.E. - fighting for the future of pa coal BK
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Old 21-03-2012, 20:03   #22
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Re: S/V Tres Hombres, a working sail freighter

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Sorry modern transport demands have completely discounted variable delivery times. There's no going back.
Dave
Yeah, that THAT could NEVER change!

Snicker, snicker, snicker!
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Old 21-03-2012, 20:06   #23
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Re: S/V Tres Hombres, a working sail freighter

I pay pretty close attention to the news-many sources-and I haven't heard/read about widespread water contamination from fracking. There has been one prominate instance-I think in Pennsylvania-where several wells were contaminated. I read in the Wall Street Journal the other day that the EPA's initial test results indicated it resulted from an incorrectly installed casement in a well. Whether there are facts to support all the allegations/buzz flying about I don't know. But there was also an article in yesterday's Journal titled "Move Over OPEC-Here We Come", written by a fellow that's head of Citi Banks global commodies research. According to him, thanks to new discoveries/drilling techniques, "North America is becoming the new Middle East. The only thing that can stop it is domestic politics". He predicts a booming economy in the near future as a result. I hope he's right.
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Old 21-03-2012, 20:46   #24
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Re: S/V Tres Hombres, a working sail freighter

All I know is Ive made a few bucks over the years hauling semi-small things to out of the way places, that are FAR from any delivery route! not enough to make a living at the time but it paid for some cruiseing a time or two ! ya just never can bet on anything anymore! I never thought I would see park rangers packing glocks either!!
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Old 21-03-2012, 20:51   #25
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Re: S/V Tres Hombres, a working sail freighter

Check out Popular Mechanics magazine one issue has some large ships that are to be built with sails to help reduce fuel cost. One has already been started. Some live aboard dive vessels use sail power to conserve fuel. Sailing needs to come out of the box and be looked at form a new light. No I do not think Clipper ships will be back but the new container ship may use the wind and current to its advantage.
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Old 22-03-2012, 00:12   #26
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Re: S/V Tres Hombres, a working sail freighter

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Pejorative tar sands? They are the oil sands.

Maybe Ralph was right... "Let them eastern bastards freeze in the dark".

Oh, that's right, you guys use coal, not oil. Environmentally clean coal I bet.
When I was a kid, they were tar sands, because they were made of tar and sand. Perhaps I didn't get the memo from the provincial public relations firm.

My boat uses solar, wind, gas and diesel, in about that order, to make electricity. The house uses electricity from Niagara Falls and a couple of nuke plants. No coal for a few years now, as far as I know.
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Old 22-03-2012, 00:15   #27
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Re: S/V Tres Hombres, a working sail freighter

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Check out Popular Mechanics magazine one issue has some large ships that are to be built with sails to help reduce fuel cost. One has already been started. Some live aboard dive vessels use sail power to conserve fuel. Sailing needs to come out of the box and be looked at form a new light. No I do not think Clipper ships will be back but the new container ship may use the wind and current to its advantage.
That would be my basic point, actually.
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Old 22-03-2012, 00:27   #28
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Re: S/V Tres Hombres, a working sail freighter

Labor intensive....lets modernize it.

Add a battery and small power plant to charge it and for docking along with wind and solar panels. To reduce the crew, you add electric winches in places where you would have several crew hauling on a line. You may have to pay less to your crew, but I bet with unemployment getting up, you could find crew.

Look up the super yacht Maltese Falcon.
The Maltese Falcon (yacht) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 15-03-2013, 13:14   #29
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Re: S/V Tres Hombres - a Working Sail Freighter

Ship is in St Georges at present. On her way back to Europe from Caribbean with Rum, Cocoa beans, Wine etc. Story in todays Royal Gazette Bermuda

Suck it up naysayers
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Old 16-03-2013, 09:36   #30
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Re: S/V Tres Hombres - a Working Sail Freighter

Interesting. Not to toot my own fog horn, but I recently wrote a heavily annotated supplemental article on the whole "cargo-by-sail" idea:
The world encompassed: Cargo by sail barge to New York City? It's more likely than you think.



Being ocean-oriented, I tend to focus on the feasibility of sail- or sail-assisted ocean cargo, but there's a case for at least a partial revival of sailing barges. The ecological brownie points might well be worth collecting, I would imagine, and might translate into profit from the same buyers who witter on about "Fair trade" this 'n' that.

My overall impression is that I could do worse things than weld a few extra heavy-duty padeyes to our decks to provide tie-down locations for some "inter-island inter-modal" transportation. Sail's looking up.
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