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Old 06-02-2009, 12:55   #76
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Sure would like to have a date on that one.

Thanks.
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Old 06-02-2009, 13:14   #77
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There is a move underway to require STATE reg. on all documented vessels. If this is so there would be no way to refuse a boarding by either. I have just completed this process in LA.

Orion that is been a law in many states. it is nothing new.. for my boat and my fed doc stamp it is a grand total of $9/year.. no big deal..
You just don't have to display numbers..

FYI.. in fla your dingy has to be registered if you put a motor on it.. I am aware the LA does not require that.. if you come south might be wise to carry that law with you.. we had a boat doc'd out of NOLA.. ended up with several tickets over the dingy issue..each time it got thrown out as we are based out of New Orleans and I showed them the law at 'home'...
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Old 06-02-2009, 13:28   #78
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have heard of that---welcome to fascist us----the doods on this coast sneak up on returnees fron catalina and , in dark, with NO identifiable marks o0n their GREY ribs, holler and bother until the retired major in army says hello and what,,,,,there is a problem with "smuggling" of illegals and drugs----too bad---we had the wrong pres---too bad we have a coast guard emperor who has declared "the biggest threat to national securiuty is the recreational boater".....guess what----we are they!!! the recreational boater----there is no right from unlawful search and seizure in boating world--remember that....one of the constitutional rights we give up knowingly as boaters and criusers....i donot know what to say---i never thought they have the right to mess up our personal stuff for npo reason, but they see it as areason...just owning a boat in this country is a crime now, ya know??? too ofree and needs to be gottten rid of.....welcome to fascism.......
Hag.. if you hate this country so much leave please..

the Coasties are consumate professionals.. we do have a serious problem with smuggling illegals in..where have you been.. our borders are NOT secure.. this is not a fascist country.. you need to learn that definition..
As long as you live in this country you are subject to its laws unless you decide to move elsewhere and give up your citizenship..
No owning a boat in this country is not a crime, but if you view it that way ... by all means sell your boat and move to land.

Let me explain to you.. we, as as country in a knee jerk reaction to 9/11 voted in the Patriot Act that should have sunseted in 2005.. but then we as a nation allowed it to be made permanent.
I spoke with an attorney today in DC who workes for the Border Patrol.. she told me that they use thier authority based on Title 19 of the US Federal Code and that Homeland Security's authority to board boats is based on the laws contained within the USA Patriot Act.
Do not blame one or two individuals behavior for those who do keep this nation free and safe.. even if that idividual is a loathsome worm.

It is not facism.. we still have a constitution and we still have rights.

I have never been stopped by the USCG that they have not be consumate professionals and treated me with dignity and respect. I have a uscg license, my papers and the boats papers are all in order..
Do you think that autmobiles should not be registered and tagged? It is the same with boats.. I have both state and federal registration for my boat. I have NO problem with that. I have no problem with being stopped.. I do, however, take complete exception to being 'interrogated' by some pissant who thinks they have a right to interrogate me.
Should that come to pass, I will make a stink with my Senator and my Rep and the proper agency.. take names, badge numbers and all that.. I will do it via the correct channels and news media if it comes to that..

WE still, as a nation, have many freedoms that are denied others in other places and countries.. we should all take a deep breath step back and figure out, collectively, how we deal with this issue.. it will get worse, most likely, before it gets better.. We have a liberal congress in power who can help us.. utilize them..
fair winds to all..

ps... I have a phone number for the chief counsel to the borderpatrol enforcement division should anyone want it to clarify the legality
of what I say..

Aquaholic.. IF I can be of any help in this let me know.I am very very good with phones and ferreting out what I need to...
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Old 06-02-2009, 13:57   #79
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Very Interesting - This a quote from the article referred to above - "No other law enforcement officer, federal or state, has such sweeping authority. None. Someone in this email usernet thread suggested that local cops are sometimes deputized as federal officers and they then get the same power, at least when they are on the water. Not true. ONLY THE COAST GUARD OFFICER, WARRANT OFFICER OR PETTY OFFICER has this authority. All other federal and state officers (except maybe customs) need probable cause to get on board your vessel.

In our town, the Harbor Master says that he has been authorized by the local Coast Guard to board vessels. To whom do we complain when they do board? The Coast Guard won't do anything nor will will the local police for whom the Harbormaster works.
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Old 06-02-2009, 14:04   #80
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i have only some words to say here---bella--you do not know of what you speak--you havent been accosted by these thugs of the sea called homeland security---there is no reason to tell a founding family realist to leave a country except that the felame involve(bella) has followed me since my return from caribean and flamed every thing i have said.there are folks out sailing more than just a dock who are finding out that the words spoken by the commander of coast guard 4 years ago are true----unfortunately.there are fine upstanding retirees from marines, army, navy, uscg--all being harrassed by homeland security who feels has a need to know EXACTLY what each boat is doing ou ton hte water.....they donot do this with respect....they do it out of their feeling of need to intrude and control the people of this allegedly free nation---we have not been free since 9-11......bella---do more research --look up what has been happening on the west coast---does come to you guys ----what happens in california goes to the rest of the country in time---time is now--has been going on here for 4-5 yrs.......goood luck.
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Old 06-02-2009, 14:35   #81
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The search laws and the requirement for obtaining search warrants do not apply to boats, even if your boat is your home. Don't ask my why but they don't. If they want to come aboard, they can and they don't need a reason. This has been fought all the way to the Supreme Court a few times and each case lost.

I totally disagree, but that's how it is.
Boats are governed by maritime law. its twisty, turny and quite convoluted. Some of the time it helps us, others it sorta kinda
screws us. It does, however, define our rights and who can
and cannot board us.. as well as when.. and how..
do a search for 'maritime law'.. some stuff is interesting
other gets a major "huh? what?" reaction.
Some of it harkens back to the days of all sail too.

Other countries have thier own laws.. My take on this is to always
have your papers in order, keep the boat registration up to date..
You do not have to answer questions about where you have been or going.. that is not defined in the patriot act. You do have to show that you have a legal right to be on the boat, in the case of a delivery..
There is no law in the United States that states a US Citizen has to show proof of identity.. do not let the feds or local police snow you..there is NOlaw.. however, if the coasties ask for Id, which they rarely do.. show them your USCG license if you have one. I always just hand over my passport.. it shuts everyone up.. it does not get any better than a passport.

For those who are foriegn nationals.. your passport is really all you need. It is my understanding that you are supposed to let customs or HS know when you move a boat tagged in another country..some areas of the east coast, (what I am most familiar with) follow this rule tightly others are very very lax..I heard a story out of ft lauderdale what was sorta scary.. but that seems to be the only one so far and the boat was Canadian flagged.

I think it all boils down to.. know the law that pertains to you.. keep your boat legal .. do smoke or carry drugs onboard.. and have a great time..
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Old 06-02-2009, 14:42   #82
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Lots of wannabe water police out there, I have counted seven different law agencys working the clear creek channel beside our marina at the same time last summer. I think it is revenue for their agencys they are after with the tickets they write.
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Old 06-02-2009, 14:55   #83
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san diego harbor police:

"we reserve the right to change the laws daily and as we see fit"

figure it out....is universal for local police operations on the water.....
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Old 06-02-2009, 15:35   #84
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Bella and Zeehag, please stop the picking at each other or sherriff Paul will shut us down. (and I won't blame him, either). I'm getting lots of great info from this thread, from everyone. Thanks for all the ideas and support, fellow cruisers. I'll take some pics of the damage to my boat tomorrow when I get to Beaufort and decide then how to proceed. I'll keep you in the loop.
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Old 06-02-2009, 16:08   #85
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<snip>
There is no law in the United States that states a US Citizen has to show proof of identity.. do not let the feds or local police snow you..there is NOlaw.. however, if the coasties ask for Id, which they rarely do.. show them your USCG license if you have one. I always just hand over my passport.. it shuts everyone up.. it does not get any better than a passport. <snip>
In the wake of the Supreme Court's 2004 decision in Hiibel v. Sixth Judicial District Court of Nevada, a person had better know two things: 1 - His/her rights, and 2 - The consequences of asserting those rights but failing to prevail in subsequent court decisions.

See Refusing to Give Name a Crime (washingtonpost.com)

and Cooperate, Or Else!

Also informative is:

www.wcl.american.edu/journal/lawrev/54/stulin.pdf

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Old 06-02-2009, 16:09   #86
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Aqua... You ran into some complete A-Holes out there. Do what you can to strike back, but please KEEP GOING as soon as ya can. Forget all the political BS that this post stirred up and remember, keep your eyes on the prize! When you are sprawled out in your cockpit in the Keys, after a day of trollin' for Mahi-Mahi in the 'stream, you'll look back and KNOW it was worth it. I know, I did it. As for everybody else, please keep your political views to your self on this forum. PLEASE! We all have opinions. Lets just keep it about CRUISING.
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Old 06-02-2009, 17:24   #87
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no sudar mateys--the bella thing is on my ignore list and my posts are very relevant to cruising.i spoke of that which is occurring for real---not what is theory. watch your selves and have fun sailing---jus tbe aware this is happening. be prepared and fair winds.
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Old 06-02-2009, 17:34   #88
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Thanks for all the ideas and support, fellow cruisers. I'll take some pics of the damage to my boat tomorrow when I get to Beaufort and decide then how to proceed. I'll keep you in the loop.
Aqua if you find you're going to be docked Beaufort, SC for longer than a day or so check in with Dataw Island Marina (dial (888) 838-8410, or call on channel 16 or 68). Their rates are much less than the city marina and the folks there are the best! If you need a ride to the local boat shops, grocery store, hardware store, etc... look for Willie or Adam, they will be on A & C dock. I'm sure they or someone would be more then glad to help you out. Prices are anywhere from $2 - $3 less per foot than any where else in the area. Tell them Don and GG said hello.
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Old 06-02-2009, 18:13   #89
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In the wake of the Supreme Court's 2004 decision in Hiibel v. Sixth Judicial District Court of Nevada, a person had better know two things: 1 - His/her rights, and 2 - The consequences of asserting those rights but failing to prevail in subsequent court decisions.

See Refusing to Give Name a Crime (washingtonpost.com)

and Cooperate, Or Else!

Also informative is:

www.wcl.american.edu/journal/lawrev/54/stulin.pdf

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Old 06-02-2009, 18:43   #90
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Aquah0lic thanks very much for posting this...I for one have learned a lot from this thread on a topic that was not on my radar. Thank you also for those that have posted with links to factual information. Aqua I sincerely hope you get some sort of satisfaction or redress for what you have been through.
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