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Old 06-02-2009, 09:10   #61
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Originally Posted by Charlie View Post
Is this true or is it the Coastguard that has the right to board a boat. My understanding (not based on fact) is that only the Coastguard has that right. Not a police officer on the water. I think that if I were in that situation I would break out a video camera and video tape everything that they did. I would also not allow them to bring dogs on the boat. After all it was a video tape that led to the demise of the cops that beat up motorist (not convicted felon) Rodney King.

I would not count this as the ultimate truth but here it is in a court ruling,"
The Coast Guard’s authority to search vessels is found at title 14 United States Code section 89(a): “The Coast Guard may make inquiries, examinations, inspections, searches, seizures, and arrests upon . . . waters over which the United States has jurisdiction, for the prevention, detection, and suppression of violations of laws of the United States. For such purposes, commissioned, warrant, and petty officers may at any time go on board of any vessel subject to the jurisdiction, or to the operation of any law, of the United Sates, address inquiries to those on board, examine the ship’s documents and papers, and examine, inspect, and search the vessel and use all necessary force to compel compliance.”
This statute gives the Coast Guard plenary authority to stop vessels for document and safety inspections, but like any federal regulation, it is subject to constitutional limitations, including those imposed by the Fourth Amendment. (United States v. Watson (9th Cir. 1982) 678 F.2d 765, 771.) The Fourth Amendment impresses a reasonableness standard which calls for balancing the competing individual and governmental interests. In deciding whether a particular law enforcement practice is permissible, we balance the objective and subjective intrusion on the defendant’s Fourth Amendment interests against the promotion of legitimate governmental interests, evaluated in light of alternative mechanisms available.

To my reading this would give me as the owner of the boat to refuse police officers onboard and dogs.
Charlie,
I was not aware that you can refuse all cops the ability to search other than the Coast Guard. It seems worth keeping a copy of that law and court decision onboard in case I run across the a gung-ho "land cop" who wants to search the boat for no apparent good reason.

Thanks for digging that up.
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Old 06-02-2009, 09:42   #62
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Ones' Civil Rights has no relationship to color of white, or black or yellow, or red, or the civil rights act. Clean cut white boys do have Civil Rights.

Civil Rights were here before the act. Many, of all colors, have been charged with CIVIL RIGHTS VIOLATIONS by the feds, simply for violating the rights of others, even though they were tried and found innocent for violating some other criminal law.

Officers cannot violate a persons civil rights reguardless of the crime being investigated, and where the funding originates.

I claim to be no expert, but retired from two law enforcement positions after forty years. I have seen what some police do in person. Items stolen during search warrants, food and beer taken from a suspects fridge, dental tools used to secure a confession, drop knives and guns carried by most officers, and many many more which I cannot discuss. There are those who will plant things on you or your boat to cover theirs.

I finally worked myself into a position in economic crime, at a desk, to excape, as best I could, while attempting to complete my pension time. By the time I left I was totally discusted, but well schooled and know how to protect myself from them.

Yes, there are great officers out there, thank God, but we never know the difference, like picking a doctor from the phone book.
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Old 06-02-2009, 09:59   #63
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Here is the address for the whitehouse.
Contact Us
Everyone should drop am email to them.

Dan
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Old 06-02-2009, 10:50   #64
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This might come as a shock to a few of you..but homeland stupidity can board at will..
IF you have a Federally Documented Boat then the Coasties can board at will and the state/country must ask permission..
If you have a state registered vessel the state/country can board at will and the coasties must ask permission..

If you all do some digging in the gerogia section of the Salty Southeast newsletter website.. (www.cruisersnet.net) you will see last year in april I think it was, that
HS, USCG, and the Ga Marine Patrol set up what is essentially a roadblock on the
AICW and stopped all private craft for 'inspections'... they subjected them hours long interrogations, searched and such... It will happen more and more..

All of you sheeple sat back and let this happen.. when Homeland Security was formed very few people complained and did anything.. after all the terrorist might getcha one day in a small recreational boat..

Do not write the white house.. the obamamessiah cannot and will not do anything..

Complain loudly to your Senators and your Reps.. they can do something.. and believe me they do have the power.. write a letter of complaint to the new Secretary of Homeland Security.. she comes from a state, ariz, that opted out of real ID...
Complain to the ACLU.. writing BO will do nada but get you watched by the secret service and possilbly put on the no fly list.. try the less of two weevils first..

But as I said before.. this was not an illegal boarding... unfortunately...

Anothing point.. if this happens to you... get the names and badge numbers of every individual involved who boards your boat.. if there is any damage sue the heck out of them.. and yes you have a right to refuse...
That attitude of I have nothing to hide is bs..you have a legal constitutional garunteed 'right to privacy'..don't believe me read the constitution..you have it even on a boat..when they asked permission and you said sure.. you screwed yourself... when they hit your boat that is also illegal.. harassment is illegal.. but HS and customs boarding is legal.. unfortunately.. have a great day... remember complain to your Senators, HS secretary, and if it was in the jurisdiction of the country charleston is in.. the local sheriff.. the locals don't like the feds stepping on thier toes at all.. complain to the mayor.. but not the president as some have suggested on other boards this has been cross posted on..
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Old 06-02-2009, 10:54   #65
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Originally Posted by S/V Mother Ocean View Post
Here is the address for the whitehouse.
Contact Us
Everyone should drop am email to them.

Dan
DAn, the white house can and will do nothing... complain to your Senators.. the new Secretary of Homeland Security..

To the rest of you.. You are on a boat, not land.. land lawas do not really applly in this case or any maritime case.. Maritime law does.. look there not land cases..
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Old 06-02-2009, 10:59   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David M View Post
Charlie,
I was not aware that you can refuse all cops the ability to search other than the Coast Guard. It seems worth keeping a copy of that law and court decision onboard in case I run across the a gung-ho "land cop" who wants to search the boat for no apparent good reason.

Thanks for digging that up.
Here is the way it works....
Coasties can stop and board at will any Federally Documented Vessel.. if they want to board a state registered vessel they must ask permission.. If you deny them. they have the right to hold or follow your vessel until they can get the state/county mounties there to board.. and vice versa.. It is one of the first things you learn in uscg captains class.. what your theoretical rights are.
There is no probable cause here.. and most of the time that HS is not invovled.. you get from both the Coasties and State polite checking of your Documents.. its the Homeland Stupidity crowd that is simply over the top and drunk with thier power...
as I said over and over.. start a complaint campaign to your Senators and to the new Secretary of Homeland Security... she is a liberal democrat..
let the ACLU know that HS is over the top.. you do have rights, but on the water they are thin...
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Old 06-02-2009, 11:04   #67
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As crazy as it sounds, there is now yet another chapter to this story.

After all this happened earlier, I informed the police that I will remain tied up to this dock at the boat ramp where it all went down overnight. They ruined any chance of me making it to my next anchorage and the tide was low enough that I was already bumping bottom. Those cops said that was fine (as if I was asking permission). Well, just a few minutes ago, I was walking my dog up in the parking lot and here comes a squad car flying into the lot. They stopped and the interogation began again. I got frisked AGAIN though less sexually this time. They said I had to leave and at this point my boat is standing on the keel and you can see air under the front third of the boat. I mean, I'm high and dry and they want me to move the boat. After much explaining and pleading they finally left me alone. This has been quite a day. I can't WAIT to get away from Charleston. I'll be going offshore if I have to transit this area again.

I could understand if I looked like some kind of thug, but I'm the all-American kid. Short military style blonde hair, baby blue eyes, no tattoos, no piercings, no criminal record, son of a Baptist minister. Seriously, I couldn't be more wholesome if I had to be.

At this point, its starting to feel like harrassment.

I would have said okay.. and then ignored them.. as the boat was high and dry and there was simply nothing I could do.. and I would have called the local station and complained to the watch captain.. and found out who ran the park or boat ramp where I was tied up.. let them know what was up.. if it was state property the cops were out of thier jurisdiction..

you have never clearly stated exactly where you were overtaken. were you in state waters, or county waters? all of this might have been out of the jurisdiction of HS without a state water cop or uscg if your boat is documented.. they might have exceeded thier authority.. all this, you look to young smels to high heaven.. complain to your senator.. believe me.. even HS is afraid of a Senator aide's call to find out wtf is going on..
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Old 06-02-2009, 11:07   #68
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Which by presidential order lays claim to the right to search anyone within 150 miles of a US border and customs jurisdiction. Which, of course, includes almost everywhere in the USA. And any Homeland Security action can be covered under that. There are a number of people who are looking for a test case for that...

Aqua: Very sorry to hear of your experience. If you are interested in following up on it, you might consider calling the ACLU or a more local to Charleston non-governmental organization which similarly acts to protect citizen's rights. But if so... well, it's no longer a cruising topic at that point.
Many countries extend thier 'territorial waters' out 200miles.. mexico comes to mind..
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Old 06-02-2009, 11:15   #69
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I just now was able to get back on my boat. It was sitting on land an hour ago and hanging on by 2 bow lines. Pretty hairy.

Christian, thanks for the support but I believe thats the Charleston city police. This was county/sherrif's dept that ran me through the ringer.
Aquaholic... were you still in the city limits of charleston?
are your federaly documented or a state registered boat?
it makes all the difference.. if you are doc'd.. then HS and
BP still are legally bound, under maritime law to call the USCG
despite what they think..they really don't have jurisdiction over
you..unless the Coasties are there.. if you are state only registered
then they probably were legal, barely..
you should have gotten thename of the one running the show and called
his immediate boss.. complained mightily..
That you apparently had to stay off your boat all night is thier fault therefore the BP and HS needed to put you up..it sounds like you have a very very good lawsuit there.. call ACLU or a local maritime lawyer who can put you in touch with a good shark..
you do have rights.. but not many...
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Old 06-02-2009, 11:17   #70
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There is a move underway to require STATE reg. on all documented vessels. If this is so there would be no way to refuse a boarding by either. I have just completed this process in LA.
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Old 06-02-2009, 12:05   #71
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have heard of that---welcome to fascist us----the doods on this coast sneak up on returnees fron catalina and , in dark, with NO identifiable marks o0n their GREY ribs, holler and bother until the retired major in army says hello and what,,,,,there is a problem with "smuggling" of illegals and drugs----too bad---we had the wrong pres---too bad we have a coast guard emperor who has declared "the biggest threat to national securiuty is the recreational boater".....guess what----we are they!!! the recreational boater----there is no right from unlawful search and seizure in boating world--remember that....one of the constitutional rights we give up knowingly as boaters and criusers....i donot know what to say---i never thought they have the right to mess up our personal stuff for npo reason, but they see it as areason...just owning a boat in this country is a crime now, ya know??? too ofree and needs to be gottten rid of.....welcome to fascism.......
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Old 06-02-2009, 12:07   #72
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for what it's worth, I too would follow up on this, hell I might just get an apartment there and campaign this thing for the next year! It could turn into a law suit with monetary damages significantly high enough to get your face in a few magazines and maybe a new boat, a nice BIG one. All paid for by the gov't. I've read the whole thread and there's links, comments and great advise. Get busy on your investigation. Remember, at teh police station there will be a log of all the calls that day, with names too. Just a thought in case you need to know who it was who violated your rights. And just because you only got a few rights, don't matter... violatioln of even one right is cause enough to file that legal action, and the part about a "Shark attorney" is right on.

Otherwise, high-tail it outta there and never come back. Remember, the squeaky wheel gets the grease.
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Old 06-02-2009, 12:09   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orion1 View Post
There is a move underway to require STATE reg. on all documented vessels. If this is so there would be no way to refuse a boarding by either. I have just completed this process in LA.

sorry about the double post---even kalifornikation isnt trying that on us--but we have to register our tenders to documented vessels for the state treasury---we are still not pushed into state registration of doc vessels--donot let louseyanne talk to governator--he be seeking ways to fill the coffers so they can steal more from us......go figger---you know we are all very very rich --we own boats.....might be ALL we own, but we own boats..what happens whenya sue homeland security??????where do you hide from them?????gooood luck.....keep us posted---thisis an important issue.....
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Old 06-02-2009, 12:14   #74
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Actually, Bill, there was no USCG present. If there were, I think it would not have gone so badly.
From many past experiences with the USCG you are probably correct. I have seen the Coasties basically reprimand customs, bp and HS..

I suspect this is what they are hiding behind..
USA PATRIOT Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

look at the section based on border proection and all that.. unfortunately getting thru to anyone in DC in HS is pretty much impossible.. tried..
my own senators phone seems to be either off the hook busy or the other one is on voicemail period.. but again writing your senators and complaining or calling thier offices and filing a complaint also helps. they are there for you.
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Old 06-02-2009, 12:25   #75
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I have e-mailed the president with a link to this thread, who knows, senators and congress is next. Don't just sit there talking, help where you can! One e-mail won't do it several thousand might get someones attention.
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