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Old 14-02-2008, 09:38   #76
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...The government that governs least governs best.
... If you start enacting rules to govern others behaviour it always ends up being written by the richest, most powerful and the most scared of our society. I don't like the few delagating to the many...
Rules being written by the powerful, seems (to me) more like the many delegating to the few; to which (even as a Pinko Commie Socialist) I’d also object.
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Old 14-02-2008, 09:53   #77
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More rules, regulations, and nanny govmint.

The government that governs least governs best.

I may not like some of my anchored neighbors ways because they aren't up to my snuff but then there are plenty of MYs that think my dinky little 38 Cat shouldn't be seen either. If you start enacting rules to govern others behaviour it always ends up being written by the richest, most powerful and the most scared of our society. I don't like the few delagating to the many. I value my freedom as I see freedom to me. Leave me alone to live as I wish. If others want to drink their lives away on a plastic tub, as long as they don't bother me it ain't none of my business.
I need to stop looking at this thread. It's very upsetting to see how many people miss the point of the thread, regardless of how many (8??!) times I've restated it... [sigh]
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Old 14-02-2008, 09:57   #78
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the people of the United States have chosen to go down a different path than much of the rest of the world including England, Europe and Canada when it comes to such things as social assistance, health care and education. Which approach is correct?
Iraq costs 275 million per day. 4,100 per household. maybe our government assistance is going somewhere else?


I have to agree with others on the forum that the best thing we can do is make it clear that there are two types of liveaboards: those who choose it as a lifestyle, and those "do it" because of poverty and a hint of passion for boating.

It's a very gray area. I myself, would be considered right on the poverty line (making right around 10 grand this year). I bought my boat for cheap. I love to anchor because it is free, and because I can't afford (when traveling) to dock every night.

However, currently stopped and working, I do have a dock. I put a lot of effort into keeping "stuff" off the deck of the boat. I also try to keep the boat in good shape. Varnish, Soap, and a tidy boat are very cheap maintenance costs.

Boaters will stay clear of any governmental backlash if we make it clear that lazy people who drop an anchor off a derelict boat and never move are not in fact boaters.


poverty and cheap boat doesn't mean eyesore.
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Old 14-02-2008, 09:57   #79
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Well though I must admit , you have poor in every city and every town in the USA or just about . They seem to be attracted more to areas where you wont die if you walk outside between Dec and the end of April.
Lots of Boats all along the Gulf and elsewhere for sale that no longer can move on their own but the owners want something for them$$$ . Not too much but something. I am just surprised Marinas allow them to stay. Anchoring out??
In Part its a health concern. By law you need ability to dump waste and NOT in the surrounding water. By law at least in Ill. you need potable water.
Do but a few have the right to turn our neighborhoods and waterways into yet more slums? Dont we have enough slums already that they themselves have caused. Slums are not built as slums, they are made into slums by the residents. Your heart can bleed all you want but be real as well. Your Not Helping that poor distraught soul by allowing him to live in his desired squallier while ruining yet another neighborhood or waterway in the mean time. IMHO not all but most are just lazy!!! They could work but found it easier not to. Just like welfare moms they could work but why I get this much for doing nothing... There are no doubt a few poor needy soul's , deal with them and the rest. . . Get The Boot! You Do Not Have the right to suck off of society!
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Old 14-02-2008, 10:04   #80
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You Do Not Have the right to suck off of society!
Amen.



says i need to lengthen my message to ten characters...
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Old 14-02-2008, 10:09   #81
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Iraq costs 275 million per day. 4,100 per household. maybe our government assistance is going somewhere else?


I have to agree with others on the forum that the best thing we can do is make it clear that there are two types of liveaboards: those who choose it as a lifestyle, and those "do it" because of poverty and a hint of passion for boating.

It's a very gray area. I myself, would be considered right on the poverty line (making right around 10 grand this year). I bought my boat for cheap. I love to anchor because it is free, and because I can't afford (when traveling) to dock every night.

However, currently stopped and working, I do have a dock. I put a lot of effort into keeping "stuff" off the deck of the boat. I also try to keep the boat in good shape. Varnish, Soap, and a tidy boat are very cheap maintenance costs.

Boaters will stay clear of any governmental backlash if we make it clear that lazy people who drop an anchor off a derelict boat and never move are not in fact boaters.


poverty and cheap boat doesn't mean eyesore.
I agree . . .POOR ! Didnt used to mean DIRTY! Soap is cheap!
Your poor but your trying. . . you may have patches on your jeans but your clean! If Your dirty Your Just Lazy and want someone to do it ALL for you. Fine THen. . .we will do it AL for YOU . . . . You then will live over here though ,with all the rest of your kind . These people over here are working and trying your not you belong over there>>>>>>>
Will a few deserving souls fall thru the cracks ? Yes and will a few cheaters get help ? Yes, but less than I see now. I for one am tired of all the cheaters!
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Old 14-02-2008, 10:15   #82
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Funny thing about sewage. If you are a big city you can dump millions of gallons of sewage straight into the ocean and not be fined. If you are a boater you get an onerous fine for not having your Y valve properly fastened. I'm not advocating not using holding tanks just pointing out the irony.

As far as rules go the rich have there own version of the Golden Rule, :He wth the gold makes the rules." Someone with a 150' megayacht might think that these 35' sailboats with gear plastered to the side are eyesores.

Getting back to Sulli's point I don't know how we can police this stuff ourselves. Maybe that's what hurricane season is for. Would requiring salvage insurance (insurance company gurantees the cost of salvaging a boat) work? Possibly. At least that way the local government wouldn't have to pay to remove derelict yachts. But wouldn't people scream if that was required. Precedent is there though most states require you to have auto liability insurance.
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Old 14-02-2008, 10:43   #83
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I need to stop looking at this thread. It's very upsetting to see how many people miss the point of the thread, regardless of how many (8??!) times I've restated it... [sigh]
OK Ok Ok I agree with everything you say and you make the bestest points ever. I feel so unworthy.
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Old 14-02-2008, 10:55   #84
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OK Ok Ok I agree with everything you say and you make the bestest points ever. I feel so unworthy.
Tellie: All sarcasm aside, you failed to grasp the point of the postings and argued a point that I was not making. I'm not sure how many times I have to say I'm against regulations without you thread skimmers missing it. Maybe it should be in bold...

Ah... I give up.

The thread can go where it wants. You can banter about how rich vs. poor, have vs. have nots, pretty boats vs. ugly boats makes a huge difference until the cows come how.

Fact is.... you're not doing anything to help the situation. There have been some creative ideas here... those were great!

Whining about all this rich vs. poor stuff isn't going to change the very good chance that we'll be "caught with our pants down" and regulated by the govt before coming up with a solution from within our own community.
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Old 14-02-2008, 11:01   #85
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Sean:

I think I misunderstood your original post. You're saying boaters should get together a push reasonable legislation to fix this before something happens and we get something unreasonable thrust upon us?

I originally thought you were implying that if we see a boat that fit the description, we'd each go up to them and ask them to change their ways. I hope you understand how I'd find that a bit ludicrous.
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Old 14-02-2008, 11:10   #86
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Tellie: All sarcasm aside, you failed to grasp the point of the postings and argued a point that I was not making. I'm not sure how many times I have to say I'm against regulations without you thread skimmers missing it. Maybe it should be in bold...

Ah... I give up.

The thread can go where it wants. You can banter about how rich vs. poor, have vs. have nots, pretty boats vs. ugly boats makes a huge difference until the cows come how.

Fact is.... you're not doing anything to help the situation. There have been some creative ideas here... those were great!

Whining about all this rich vs. poor stuff isn't going to change the very good chance that we'll be "caught with our pants down" and regulated by the govt before coming up with a solution from within our own community.
Geeesh, I said I agree with everything you said
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Old 14-02-2008, 11:47   #87
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Funny thing about sewage. If you are a big city you can dump millions of gallons of sewage straight into the ocean and not be fined. If you are a boater you get an onerous fine for not having your Y valve properly fastened. I'm not advocating not using holding tanks just pointing out the irony.

As far as rules go the rich have there own version of the Golden Rule, :He with the gold makes the rules." Someone with a 150' mega-yacht might think that these 35' sailboats with gear plastered to the side are eyesores.

Getting back to Sulli's point I don't know how we can police this stuff ourselves. Maybe that's what hurricane season is for. Would requiring salvage insurance (insurance company guarantees the cost of salvaging a boat) work? Possibly. At least that way the local government wouldn't have to pay to remove derelict yachts. But wouldn't people scream if that was required. Precedent is there though most states require you to have auto liability insurance.
#1. If your aware of which cities that dump Millions of gallons of raw sewage every day. . .please list or link I am not aware of ANY except in emergency
#2. the guy with the 150 versus the guy with the 35 doesnt hold water for a lot of reasons , unless the guy on the 35 is already one of those we are taking about. Poor is one-thing. . . Dirty is another... Poor may not be a choice Dirty by all means IS a personal choice. Functional is another consideration. If it no longer can function as a boat then. . . . . . it no longer qualifies as a boat. Plain and simple... Is there a difference between a Raft and a Boat. What was it designed as ? Lots of ways to determine if its just a floating piece of dog - - - - being used by some slacker ... of if its in the midst of a major rehab. Time limit by all means give it a time limit and or you just say and inforce . . .that you cannot be living in it, till it meets these ( what ever these requirements are ) minal requirements. Thats Legal and easy to uphold on land everywhere except Hillbilly Hollow. But some here seem to want to be able to refer to our Nations Coastal Water Ways as just that. . . Slums and Pig stys!
#3. Can we / you / someone in the non authority position . . police this ? NO WAY JOSE! These people have told all of you / all of us, to go to hell at least once already.
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Old 14-02-2008, 11:49   #88
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I'm not advocating not using holding tanks just pointing out the irony.
I would call it hypocrisy and it is found the world over.
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All sarcasm aside, you failed to grasp the point of the postings and argued a point that I was not making.
Sean, just because you started a thread, does not mean to suggest that every reply is to you. I think many posters are replying in general and the discussion is becomoing more "dynamic" as a result.
Folks, may I remind you all to keep the threads on topic and don't get to sidelined into Political discussions. It's easy to I now as we are all passionate about government
Thank-you all
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Old 14-02-2008, 11:52   #89
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Sean:

I think I misunderstood your original post. You're saying boaters should get together a push reasonable legislation to fix this before something happens and we get something unreasonable thrust upon us?

I originally thought you were implying that if we see a boat that fit the description, we'd each go up to them and ask them to change their ways. I hope you understand how I'd find that a bit ludicrous.
I guess a lot of people did... Maybe I need to stick to my day job, rather than being a blogger... ha ha

My point is (maybe the 9th time now) that I do not like laws and restrictions on anchoring and boating in general. I saw first hand the reason for Florida's overtly strong anchoring laws. It was definitely these people abandoning boats, leaving behind sinking boats, begging from boats and generally abusing our right to anchor anywhere we want.


I would like to preserve our freedom.

However, I'm realistic. As said many times before, if a town is having problems with boats sinking/abandoned, they *will* pass laws to stop that problem from happening.

My question (I don't even have a position - just more of a question) is, "what can we do as a boating community to change this, *before* the govt steps in and puts down very hard anchoring restrictions?"

Florida already has. I don't want to see my neck of the woods get strict like Florida is (Eastern Florida, anyway).

The point was to see if anyone had any good ideas about what to do with these "boat bums" from within the community... to see if we had any hope of preserving our right to anchor.

In somewhat of a different direction, the same thing applies to the rich guy who can't stomach a storm and sets off his EPIRB because he's "uncomfortable." He is also costing a government money, and he will eventually piss off somone in the govt who will put restrictions on us as to what equipment we need to go offshore, what types of boats can go offshore, etc....

My thread was about how to keep the freedoms we have, through changing our behavior *before* the govt steps in and regulates our freedoms away.



Man... I have no idea of any other way to put this. More people have come on here yelling about my "idea" of "imposing new laws" and
wanting tons of new regulations. They think I'm out to get poor people. HELLO......!!!! I AM poor compared to most of the people on here.

I can't afford a dock, I live at anchor and I want to keep the right to continue living at anchor.

Problem is... these boat bums are making me (a person who also lives at anchor and is fairly poor) look bad.

AND.... let's not forget the rich guy with his EPIRB. Same exact problem as the boat bums. Using free govt services to get rescued, many times when it's not needed.

If I had a whiteboard, I could draw a picture....

I just can't figure out any other way to put this.

I may have to give up. ha ha ha

Seems maybe 25% of the people get the point of this, while 75% think I'm some rich yachtie type who is looking down my 100' bow at those horrible, disgusting people ruining my view! lol

I guess it's the newbies who haven't seen me cry on here about how I can't afford a house, can't afford to dock (during the season), have only just put aside a few bucks to invest for the first time in my life, don't eat out, have no "assets", had to get a huge loan on this boat I'm trying to buy, have lived at anchor for 2 1/2 years, have done everything humanly possible to cut my spending (yeah, my wife and I live on $1000/mo), etc... etc...

I *am* a sort of boat bum, but my boat is kept presentable and in seamanlike shape. I also don't beg for my booze money or steal from people, nor would I leave my boat sinking for the town to take care of.

It's people who do what is in the above paragraph, (plus the rich EPIRB guy), who are "Ruining it For The Rest of Us"
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Old 14-02-2008, 11:59   #90
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I would call it hypocrisy and it is found the world over.

Sean, just because you started a thread, does not mean to suggest that every reply is to you. I think many posters are replying in general and the discussion is becomoing more "dynamic" as a result.
Folks, may I remind you all to keep the threads on topic and don't get to sidelined into Political discussions. It's easy to I now as we are all passionate about government
Thank-you all
I know, Wheels, thanks.

I was attempting to keep it on track to avoid it degenerating into a political discussion. It is somewhat political in nature, but outlines a serious problem we face in my country.

Possibly I misunderstood that Tellie there was replying to someone else, as he didn't include any post in his reply. I had thought he was replying to me. My bad.
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