Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 11-12-2014, 09:49   #1276
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: North Carolina
Boat: 44 footer
Posts: 923
Re: Rudder Failures

In addition to what Neil said:

If your pins are worn crooked, they aren't in alignment to the load.

Measure the difference between the thin part and thick part where the bushing contacts it with a caliper.

Take half that thickness, and insert a sheet metal shim on the side of the cage that held the thin side to square the sheave up with the load.

Re-string the cable, and see if your helm feels smoother.

If the issue is with the sheaves directly under the pedestal, slack up the pedestal bolts, and lower or raise the front or back, that same half distance and repeat the performance.

When you know the thicknesses you need, the under-pedestal wedge can be made out of wood. The turning blocks ahead of the quadrant you can have made up at a machine shop out of stainless or bronze bar stock. If you are doing it yourself, drill the holes first, make your thickness mark and grind down until you get a constant taper.

I like Super Lube for grease. Take a chip brush and cut the bristles down to a 1/2 inch long or so and pack the groove between the bristles full of grease and slather everything down, including the grooves in the quadrant.

What you ought to end up with, if the cables are "just right" tension you can steer with one finger, a half a turn either side of center until the rudder loads up. You'll also feel the pressure difference back fed through the system, when when you are motoring...

If you are starting with a new cable, tighten it down snug and take her sailing. The next day, adjust to center the wheel and set the cables to just right to take the stretch out.

Cheers,

Zach
__________________

__________________
Zach is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2014, 09:54   #1277
Registered User
 
neilpride's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: in the world
Boat: csy 44 tall rig.
Posts: 3,099
Re: Rudder Failures

Top 5 ***** stars advice... Thanks....
__________________

__________________
neilpride is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2014, 11:37   #1278
Registered User
 
Exile's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Land of Disenchantment
Boat: Bristol 47.7
Posts: 2,966
Re: Rudder Failures

Quote:
Originally Posted by neilpride View Post
Top 5 ***** stars advice... Thanks....
+1
__________________
Exile is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2014, 12:08   #1279
Registered User
 
transmitterdan's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2011
Boat: Valiant 42
Posts: 4,034
Re: Rudder Failures

Yard Guys,

Thanks for the advice. I think steering maintenance tips like these. should be a sticky somewhere. That would do more to reduce steering failures than a few thousand posts arguing about spade vs. skeg.
__________________
transmitterdan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2014, 14:44   #1280
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2005
Boat: Outbound 44
Posts: 4,593
Re: Rudder Failures

I don't think you are really inspecting the rudder if don't drop it far enough to inspect the hidden portion that is susceptible corrosion, assuming it is a stainless or AL shaft.
__________________
Paul L
http://svjeorgia.blogspot.com
Paul L is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2014, 16:22   #1281
cruiser

Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,132
Re: Rudder Failures

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul L View Post
I don't think you are really inspecting the rudder if don't drop it far enough to inspect the hidden portion that is susceptible corrosion, assuming it is a stainless or AL shaft.
I understand. I just bought the boat a little over a year ago and had a full survey. Though we didn't drop the rudder - everything was good when checked for play, etc. I just wanted to look at what's there and get myself familiar with the components.

I'll decide whether or not to drop it to inspect before we head out.
__________________
smackdaddy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2014, 07:12   #1282
Registered User
 
Gerrycooper56's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2011
Boat: Tayana 52
Posts: 232
Re: Rudder Failures

This year we were leaving a Fort Pierce anchorage when there was a twang from the lazarette and the steering became loose and no rudder movement. The adjustable eye for one of the cables had snapped off, apparently from corrosion as the breakage was inside the quadrant.
During a survey you wouldn't pick this up so replacing those eye/adjusters would probably be money well spent. A direct coupled autopilot would get over the issue in an emergency but the repair would be very difficult if under way.


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum
__________________
Gerrycooper56 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2014, 10:05   #1283
Registered User
 
Exile's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Land of Disenchantment
Boat: Bristol 47.7
Posts: 2,966
Re: Rudder Failures

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerrycooper56 View Post
This year we were leaving a Fort Pierce anchorage when there was a twang from the lazarette and the steering became loose and no rudder movement. The adjustable eye for one of the cables had snapped off, apparently from corrosion as the breakage was inside the quadrant.
During a survey you wouldn't pick this up so replacing those eye/adjusters would probably be money well spent. A direct coupled autopilot would get over the issue in an emergency but the repair would be very difficult if under way.


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum
Good info, thanks. Those eye adjusters are SS so maybe suspect if older.

Was there any visible external corrosion, or do you mean the entire adjusters are out of view? Not sure what you meant by them being located "inside the quadrant."
__________________
Exile is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2014, 18:20   #1284
Registered User
 
Gerrycooper56's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2011
Boat: Tayana 52
Posts: 232
Re: Rudder Failures

There was no obvious external corrosion with the break occurring inside the quadrant casting. You have the adjuster going through the edge of the quadrant casting and held in position by an adjusting nut on either side of the hole in the quadrant. The Edson system I have is vintage 1990 and although the cables look like they have been replaced I don't think these adjusters were.


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum
__________________
Gerrycooper56 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-12-2014, 19:37   #1285
cruiser

Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,132
Re: Rudder Failures

Eek. Problems with the rudder on the Swan 43:

S&S Swan Association



And the 40:

http://www.classicswan.org/forum/pos...php?thread=143

From this thread:
Quote:
It appears that all of the older Swans are exhibiting this issue.
__________________
smackdaddy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-12-2014, 20:15   #1286
cruiser

Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,132
Re: Rudder Failures

And a Moody 34 with a nasty looking keel fracture:

Keel & Rudder Repairs | Baltic Wharf Repairs



As well as a Westerly GK 33 with a nasty crack at the keel:

__________________
smackdaddy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-12-2014, 20:24   #1287
Registered User
 
malbert73's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2008
Boat: Tartan 40
Posts: 1,035
Re: Rudder Failures

I wouldnt like those cracks, but might they just be cracks in the fairing compound between keel and hull?


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum
__________________
malbert73 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-12-2014, 05:52   #1288
Registered User
 
Polux's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Portugal/Med
Boat: Comet 41s
Posts: 5,767
Re: Rudder Failures

They don't look good, but let's hear what Neil says.
Polux is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-12-2014, 06:40   #1289
Registered User
 
neilpride's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: in the world
Boat: csy 44 tall rig.
Posts: 3,099
Re: Rudder Failures

No Idea, Smack is fantastic this days finding weird stuff, like the Oyster ,and again with no more info to back up the picture ,

The blue Moody, last picture show no damage in the keel shoe from what i can see, can be from a tough hard grounding, collision to a drunk travelift operator fault. Who know¿

The Westerly keel looks ok to me, as the picture say, keel hull joint fairing fail, since on those Brits harbours the tides are huge , up and down down and up, one just need to figúrate how hard are on keels the tides.
Nothing really wrong since a boat is designed to rest in their keel, but dont expect a nice fairing job in a fin keel to last longer , keel smile in other words..

And the swan xxx file, well its a old S&S 43 design, 2 key ways along the shaft holding the stock in line and in place , i know that keys in a shaft get play sooner or later , i dont see anything to point here like a inminent danger to lost the rudder , just play at the shaft by wear in the keys, repair is preety straighforward and if you ask me , yes its a weird way to fit the rudder stock with the straps, but in the bright side allow the owners to replace or inspect the stock without doing surgery in the rudder blade.
Cheers..
__________________
neilpride is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-12-2014, 07:49   #1290
cruiser

Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,132
Re: Rudder Failures

Quote:
Originally Posted by neilpride View Post
The blue Moody, last picture show no damage in the keel shoe from what i can see, can be from a tough hard grounding, collision to a drunk travelift operator fault. Who know¿
Yeah - whatever it was it was bad. The keel looks to be split down the leading edge - and the interior structure is trashed as well:





I hope all the guys that talked about running aground in their "blue water boats" without damage take a close look. It ain't just Beneteaus and Jeanneaus that sustain damage in hits like that.
__________________

__________________
smackdaddy is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
rudder

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Hurth / ZF M15A Transmission Failures tomj Propellers & Drive Systems 138 06-05-2016 05:05
Maine Passage - Successes and failures, Moving On... skipgundlach General Sailing Forum 2 20-08-2008 09:20
Warning: Pre-1994 Crewfit PFD failures hellosailor Health, Safety & Related Gear 0 12-07-2006 19:41
Bilge Pump Failures ? GordMay The Sailor's Confessional 6 14-08-2003 02:23
Equipment Failures GordMay Construction, Maintenance & Refit 2 31-03-2003 17:47



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 15:57.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.