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Old 28-04-2015, 06:18   #121
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Re: 'Roger' does not mean 'Yes'

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Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
in a scanning receiver, its useful to have the caller say the channel, in my case the radio resumes scanning within 2 seconds , so if I come down the companionway, I cant determine what channel I was called on.
Yes, but how do I know if you have a scanning receiver?

In my part of the USA, boaters are supposed to monitor channel 16 and they are supposed to hail each other on 16 and then establish a working channel and switch to it. So, as I tool along the AICW and a faster boat wants to overtake me, he will hail me on 16, suggest a working channel and we both switch to that channel to make arrangements for the pass. Sometimes he will just stay on 16 and we make it quick.

It turns out that some commercial vessels do not monitor 16 (or possibly do not monitor any channel). This is when the horn is used.

In my travels, it's more likely that sailboaters will not respond to my VHF calls. Or that they will have a dinghy covering the boat's name so I have to hail them as "sailboat with a trawler behind you".
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Old 28-04-2015, 06:24   #122
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Re: 'Roger' does not mean 'Yes'

Thanks familyvan, all clear and well explained. I guess one of the reasons I'm all for standardisation of VHF terminology is issues I've come across in the past when speaking straylyan to foreigners. Sometimes it takes 5 goes just to order a whopper at Burger King while the staff looks at you like your mentally challenged. Then they look at each other with a 'what the hell is he saying?' kind of look...
Standard and simple calling formats increase the efficiency and safety for all radio operators and from reading the comments on this thread I'll definitely adopt stating the calling channel when in waters that might require more than one channel to be monitored. It sounds like most of the professional and maritime services prefer that approach.
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Old 28-04-2015, 07:53   #123
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Re: 'Roger' does not mean 'Yes'

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Originally Posted by markpierce View Post
The most important "rule" is to know what channel to use in the circumstance. (No radio check on 16, thank you.)
+1

"USCG Chapter III pg. 3-6:
UNDERSTAND AND FOLLOW THESE PROCEDURES AT ALL TIMES:
  • 1. Channel 16 may ONLY be used for Distress and Calling. Keep all calls as short as possible.
  • 2. It is illegal to use Channel 16 for radio checks. If requesting a radio check, use Channel 16 to hail the nearest Coast Guard Unit. Once the Coast Guard Unit acknowledges your hail, request Coast Guard Unit to switch and answer Channel 22A. Once Coast Guard Unit answers on Channel 22A, you may now request a radio check. The Coast Guard Unit will respond accordingly."
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Old 28-04-2015, 08:31   #124
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Re: 'Roger' does not mean 'Yes'

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Originally Posted by MarkJ View Post
It says theres a proword list in Appendix A. But did YOU read it?
If you did can you provide the link to it because I couldnt find it. Thats why I linked to other sources


Mark
When I clicked on the Appendix A link, it opened. I downloaded the PDF version from the link on the page, and the appendix was in it.

From it:

Quote:
AFFIRMATIVE Yes, or permission granted.
Some excerpts from the Kiwi pub:

Affirmative
Yes. You are correct. What you have transmittedis correct.

Roger
I have received and understand your last transmission. (Does not mean ‘Yes’ or ‘Permission granted’.)
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Old 28-04-2015, 08:48   #125
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Re: 'Roger' does not mean 'Yes'

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Originally Posted by CptBobDuv View Post
And as far as roger is concerned .....yes THATS A ROGER IS FINE FOR YES
"That's a roger" is a wordy but fine answer to "do you copy?" but it does not mean "yes." I wish I could remember a specific example, but in the last few weeks I overheard one long exchange between an inbound boat and a marina, where the response "that's a roger" was not clear (at least to my ears) that he was answering in the affirmative or just acknowledging receipt. The point being, that it's perfectly acceptable to use plain English for radio comms, but if you insist on using pro-words, you should use them correctly.
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Old 28-04-2015, 08:48   #126
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Re: 'Roger' does not mean 'Yes'

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Originally Posted by Maine Sail View Post
.........2. It is illegal to use Channel 16 for radio checks. If requesting a radio check, use Channel 16 to hail the nearest Coast Guard Unit. Once the Coast Guard Unit acknowledges your hail, request Coast Guard Unit to switch and answer Channel 22A. Once Coast Guard Unit answers on Channel 22A, you may now request a radio check. The Coast Guard Unit will respond accordingly."
But if you ask for a radio check on 16 and someone comes back and tells you not to do this, you just got your radio check.

SeaTow has set up automated radio check service in many parts of the USA on channel 26 or 27. You transmit and your transmission will be repeated back to you.

I hear inappropriate and illegal transmissions on the VHF all the time but to my knowledge, nothing is done about it. People learn that if they do something and no bad things happen, then it's OK to do those things. The USCG or the FCC are not running around in high speed boats with direction finders capturing and prosecuting people for making radio checks on channel 16 or using handheld marine radios on land to communicate with the mother ship. They will try to identify and prosecute people for prank mayday calls.

Bottom line: Compliance with the rules is pretty much voluntary.
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Old 28-04-2015, 08:51   #127
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Re: 'Roger' does not mean 'Yes'

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Originally Posted by Maine Sail View Post
I'll chime in with my peeves

  • When calling a launch or boat yard or club dock from close by please switch to LOW POWER... 68 & 9 and others are very often used for multiple marinas, clubs or fuel docks in close proximity. I can regularly pick up folks calling the fuel dock some 20 miles away. No need for stomping everyone in that swath just to hail the fuel dock from a mooring or at anchor 200 yards away.

  • Stop deep throating the VHF microphone. You are not trying to swallow it, eat it or have a heavy metal rock concert with it. Talk clearly but don't engulf the thing or go all Black Sabbath on it. We can't understand you when you deep throat the mic and SCREAM into it and simply over power the tiny little microphone.

  • Hail on 16 and please get the freak off it and go to a working channel.. Some of us do monitor VHF 16, as required, and we don't enjoy listening to you "Facebooking it" with your buddies. A good friend of mine saved a guys life because he monitored VHF 16, as required. A boat over turned in the early spring and one guy drowned before they got on scene (beat the USCG there because they had VHF 16 on) but they still managed to get one guy aboard and saved his life. Had Steve turned it off due to Buffy & Skippy yapping on, and on, and on, about the lunch they just had with Mortemer and Muffy both of those guys would be dead not just the one. At least here in Maine the USCG is on top of it and will chime in on abusers who are using VHF 16 Facebook.
I am much less bothered by "Roger" than the peeves above...

Rant off...
Meant to 'ack' this earlier - excellent points also.
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Old 28-04-2015, 09:39   #128
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Re: 'Roger' does not mean 'Yes'

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Originally Posted by rwidman View Post
Yes, but how do I know if you have a scanning receiver?

It turns out that some commercial vessels do not monitor 16 (or possibly do not monitor any channel). This is when the horn is used.
Ron's statement is correct, but many recreational operators do not understand the rules that commercial vessels are operating under. For the USA the VTS rules are explained here. They require commercial vessels to monitor VHF 13, and the local Traffic VHF channel, and specifically relieve vessels in the VTS system from monitoring VHF 16. Guess what? This means that they do not hear all of the improper VHF procedure practices that have been the subject of this thread.

The link above covers the entire US VTS system. Clicking on the map will get you to regional VTS web sites such as Puget Sound where you can find the Puget Sound VTS User Manual. Here is what it says about VHF in that area:
Do I need to guard Channel 16?

Although VMRS and VTS Users are exempt from monitoring Channel 16 while complying with VTS participation regulations (reference 47 CFR 80.148(b) exemption),VMRS and VTS User class vessels are encouraged to also actively guard Channel
16 if able to do so, along with continuous monitoring of the appropriate VTS frequency, AND Channel 13, on separate radios, while in U.S. waters.


Many smaller vessels may be unaware of the Channel 16 exemption status, and may attempt to hail larger vessels on Channel 16 in an emergency, which is the appropriate frequency for a vessel of their class in U.S. or Canadian waters.

May I use the VTS frequency for passing arrangements?


Although Channel 13 is the designated Bridge to Bridge Navigation Safety frequency for making passing arrangements, the use of VTS Channel 5A is allowable and encouraged for the exchange of passing arrangements or other navigation safety information particularly in the Strait of Juan de Fuca area west of Port Angeles.


VTS Channel 14 may be used for passing arrangements when necessary.



Canada does not have a designated Bridge to Bridge Radiotelephone Frequency while in Canadian waters, and vessels that need to exchange passing arrangements
should go to an agreed ‘channel of convenience’ in Canadian waters.
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Old 28-04-2015, 14:26   #129
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Re: 'Roger' does not mean 'Yes'

The NZ document was interesting if only for this little gem

'Distress frequency or channel
For VHF, channel 16.
For SSB, frequencies 2182kHz, 4125kHz or 6215kHz.
For MF/HF, 8291kHz, 12290kHz, 16420kHz.'
Whoever wrote that obviously knew what they were talking about......

I have no problem with the use of the word Roger however I think Wilco should be consigned to the dustbin of history.

In serious comms correct BRM procedures should be used.... shore station tells you what to do... ie... 'proceed to the quarantine jetty'... you should repeat that back verbatum...

Wilco? Wilco with what?

Sorry, bit of an issue with me...happens a lot with crew that I haven't beaten into shape and submission.... downstairs at chart table ... crew on wheel ... 'steer 230 degrees'..... silence.... 'did you hear me' .... 'yes'.... 'well why didn't you answer me?'
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Old 28-04-2015, 14:46   #130
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Re: 'Roger' does not mean 'Yes'

It is getting easier in this thread to determine how much time some spend on the water and in what capacity.


Rather than argue textbook and what you think should be right...listening to the people who do it ever day as long range cruisers or professional mariners are just posting realities of what works and is done every day, often in busy, dangerous situations.
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Old 28-04-2015, 16:46   #131
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Re: 'Roger' does not mean 'Yes'

In the China Sea area..'Lodger' is very common........
lesson learned is that it's best to adjust to the prevailing real estate.
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Old 28-04-2015, 16:56   #132
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Re: 'Roger' does not mean 'Yes'

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In the China Sea area..'Lodger' is very common........
lesson learned is that it's best to adjust to the prevailing real estate.
you are exacry light!
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Old 28-04-2015, 16:58   #133
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Re: 'Roger' does not mean 'Yes'

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In the China Sea area..'Lodger' is very common........
lesson learned is that it's best to adjust to the prevailing real estate.
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Old 28-04-2015, 17:03   #134
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Re: 'Roger' does not mean 'Yes'

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you are exacry light!
Light was my objective :thumbup:
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Old 28-04-2015, 17:34   #135
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Re: 'Roger' does not mean 'Yes'

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Originally Posted by CptBobDuv View Post
So San Fran Bay operates on 16 14 and what was the other one 10 and or 06.
Sorry to hear about your missing friend.

12 is VTS outside the Gate. 13 is ships' bridges. 09 are bridges and an alternate hailing channel. Tugs' to ship bridge are announced on 14 when movements occur. Races can be on 68 or 72.

Monte, it IS busy here.

I use 16, 12, 14, any race or cruise channel we choose, sometimes 09 and sometimes tugs. A friend of mine is a harbor bar pilot and he says if you don't listen, it's your a$$.

As to the idea that you don't need to state the channel you're using because the radio will do that for you:

1. I simply haven't tried it on my HH, but if it's clipped into it's cradle, right at my hand, I STILL couldn't get to it in time. Thanks for the idea, I'll give it a try one day.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rwidman View Post
Yes, but how do I know if you have a scanning receiver?

In my part of the USA, boaters are supposed to monitor channel 16 and they are supposed to hail each other on 16 and then establish a working channel and switch to it. So, as I tool along the AICW and a faster boat wants to overtake me, he will hail me on 16, suggest a working channel and we both switch to that channel to make arrangements for the pass. Sometimes he will just stay on 16 and we make it quick.

It turns out that some commercial vessels do not monitor 16 (or possibly do not monitor any channel). This is when the horn is used.

In my travels, it's more likely that sailboaters will not respond to my VHF calls. Or that they will have a dinghy covering the boat's name so I have to hail them as "sailboat with a trawler behind you".


2. Ron, what is it so hard for some to understand that things are different in different parts of the globe? It's a courtesy to state what channel you're using TO SOME OF US. What the hell is wrong with that? Once we've established comms, then we don't say it all the time.
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