Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 27-04-2015, 18:12   #106
CF Adviser
 
Pelagic's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2007
Boat: Van Helleman Schooner 65ft StarGazer
Posts: 6,895
Re: 'Roger' does not mean 'Yes'

Brits.... when they say they are going to "Roger" someone... it has a sexual connotation......
anf if your name happens to be Roger then maintaining proper radio etiquette can be a slippery slope when a lonely sailors imagination takes over..
__________________

__________________
Pelagic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-04-2015, 18:24   #107
Eternal Member
 
monte's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Australia
Boat: Lagoon 400
Posts: 3,650
Images: 1
Re: 'Roger' does not mean 'Yes'

Ay, some VHF operators could probably use a jolly good rogering


"I think multihulls require less IQ to sail than a monohull" - Duckwheat
__________________

__________________
monte is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-04-2015, 18:25   #108
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 209
Re: 'Roger' does not mean 'Yes'

Im changing my boats name from Kl'Sarza to Roger.

Sent from my SCH-I415 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
__________________
wellin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-04-2015, 18:44   #109
Registered User
 
leftbrainstuff's Avatar

Join Date: May 2011
Location: San Francisco and Australia
Boat: Liberty 458
Posts: 1,979
Re: 'Roger' does not mean 'Yes'

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bulawayo View Post
No, sireee,
'Over' means you are passing the conversation back to the other party.
'Out' means you are finished.
Over and out is therefore a contradiction. I agree that we hear it frequently but I have never heard a licenced Ham user make this fundemental error.
Its an oxymoron. Hams are far more professional on the radio than most vhf users.

Sent from my SM-N900T using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
__________________
leftbrainstuff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-04-2015, 18:52   #110
Registered User
 
The Way's Avatar

Join Date: May 2011
Location: On the boat, currently Tampa Bay, Florida
Boat: Dickerson ketch, 36'
Posts: 176
Re: 'Roger' does not mean 'Yes'

Quote:
Originally Posted by SM6WET View Post
"Roger" is CB-slang just like ten-four.
Roger came out of CW (morse code) abbreviations.
Robin Knox-Johnston used "Roger" during his RTW solo, which took place long before the CB craze. And he was trained at the Royal Signals School.

Or is CB older than 1967?

Thanks,
Jack
__________________
The Way is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-04-2015, 19:16   #111
Registered User
 
FamilyVan's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,779
Re: 'Roger' does not mean 'Yes'

Quote:
Originally Posted by monte View Post
That's funny, I was going to add that people stating the Channel they are using is strange. I've only noticed it a practice among American accented callers and it's not shown as part of the standard call procedure in the link you posted

4.8 Single Station Call
When an operator wishes to establish communication with a specific station, the following items shall be transmitted in the order indicated:

Call sign of the station called (not more than three times).
The words "THIS IS".
Call sign of the station calling (not more than three times).
Invitation to reply.
Examples: FREIGHTWAY TWO FIVE ZERO
THIS IS
FREIGHTWAY MONTREAL
XMT FIVE NINE
OVER

VYD FIVE SEVEN LA RONGE
THIS IS
VXX ONE TWO FIVE PRINCE ALBERT
OVER

This is the way I was taught to make a call. Perhaps if people have trouble monitoring duel stations they should stick to one station.
Are you saying you don't like when people say what channel they're on? How would you know what channel they're on. If you have two radios both on duel watch, say 16, the local bridge, the upbound local canal control type folks or vts people and the down bound vts people. How would you know which radio to answer if you didn't know what channel they are on? I mean 80% of the time you're going to know by the voice and type of information being relayed, but 20% of the time you're still be asking your buddy "what radio was that?"

Sent from my SGH-I547C using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
__________________
FamilyVan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-04-2015, 19:43   #112
Eternal Member
 
monte's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Australia
Boat: Lagoon 400
Posts: 3,650
Images: 1
Re: 'Roger' does not mean 'Yes'

Nope, I just found it strange and never heard it before on channel 16 till arriving near US waters. I'm used to calling and monitoring ch16 unless required to monitor additional channels and haven't heard stations stating that they're using channel 16 before. I try to use the VHF by the book, as per the quoted extract above. Nowhere does it state to use the calling channel as part of the initial call. Perhaps it should, but it doesn't.
Obviously certain areas have specific requirements, as per below. Note the last paragraph specifically asks vessels to use channel 10 to discuss passing arrangements etc.
Perhaps the book should be rewritten to state the calling channel should be stated when calling channels other than ch16, or perhaps it should be rewritten to state the callers channel in all calls. Either way there's ambiguity that should be clarified for all users. As it currently reads, stating the channel when on ch16 isn't recommended.


Darwin VTS maintains a continuous listening watch on channels 16 (Distress, Safety and Calling) and 10 (primary port operations working channel) - 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.

All vessels required to report to Darwin VTS in accordance with section 3.3 above shall, at all times, maintain a listening watch on channels 16 and 10.

Additionally, all other vessels operating within the port limits shall maintain a listening watch on channel 10 whilst underway or at anchor.

The following table contains the VHF channels utilised within the port and their primary use:

VHF Channel

Used for

Primary use

06

Frances Bay Mooring Basin Lockmaster

Communications with vessels entering or leaving Frances Bay Mooring Basin

08

Tipperary Waters Lockmaster

Communications with vessels entering or leaving Tipperary Waters marina

09

Darwin LNG

Wickham Point operations

10

All vessels

Darwin Harbour Control working channel and primary port operations

11

Cullen Bay Lockmaster

Communication with vessels entering and leaving Cullen Bay marine

12 and 13

Tugs

Ship manoeuvring with the assistance of tugs

14 and 69

Naval vessels

Navy port working frequency

16

All vessels

[International] distress, safety and calling

17

Hudson Creek

Ship-to-shore channel for vessels working in Hudson Creek

19

INPEX LNG

Bladin Point operations

67

All vessels

Darwin Harbour Control weather and notices to mariners information channel (0703 & 1903)

68

Bayview Marina Lockmaster

Communications with vessels entering or leaving Bayview marina

72

All vessels

Ship to Ship, Customs and Quarantine

73

Yachts

Yacht racing and Regattas

74

Darwin Marine Supply Base

Darwin Marine Supply Base operations

When VHF radio is used between vessels for the purpose of discussing and agreeing special passing arrangements in order to remove the risk of collision, such communications shall be conducted on channel10 to ensure that Darwin VTS and other port users are aware of each vesselís intention.




"I think multihulls require less IQ to sail than a monohull" - Duckwheat
__________________
monte is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-04-2015, 19:51   #113
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: San Diego
Boat: Pearson 39-2 "Sea Story"
Posts: 1,109
Re: 'Roger' does not mean 'Yes'

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Way View Post
Robin Knox-Johnston used "Roger" during his RTW solo, which took place long before the CB craze. And he was trained at the Royal Signals School.

Or is CB older than 1967?

Thanks,
Jack
Curiosity got the best of me. Evidently, the idea of private citizens using radio (ie, Citizen's Band CB) goes back to the 40's. By the 60's is was pretty common in the US, but in the 70's every trucker needed one to share information on where to fill up during the crisis and to organize blockades to protest the new regulations. Plus, walkie talkies finally got small enough and cheap enough to be a toy.
__________________
Greenhand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-04-2015, 21:01   #114
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Out there doin' it
Boat: 47' Olympic Adventure
Posts: 2,637
Re: 'Roger' does not mean 'Yes'

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkJ View Post
Goodie! I disagree with BOTH points!

Roger is fine for yes.
And no need to say the channel u are calling someone on.

Roger:
I can't find a proword list with "affirmative" or "yes" in it. So if you can please link it.
In this modern day "yes" is fine as is Roger, but "affirmative" too long and perhaps difficult for non-English speakers. (Remember theres lots of them 'out there')

Identifying the Calling Channel isnt needed because all VHFs in the last 20 years click to the last channel received with the Tx button is pushed. So you dont have to stop scan and select the channel, you just Tx and the machine does it automatically.

And, I am an "Over" boy.

Mark
Mark,

The proword list is at Appendix A in the downloadable pub at the link in post #1.

While your radio may Tx on the last active channel, that assumes you can get to it before another incoming transmission and assumes you only have one radio set. Many vessels, and frequently land-based stations such as marinas have more than one set in use. I agree that it's not always required, but where it can be reasonably expected that there could be more than 1 possible hailing channel, it is an easy way to eliminate the ambiguity.

I'm clearly not alone in my way of thinking.
__________________
Lodesman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-04-2015, 21:42   #115
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Out there doin' it
Boat: 47' Olympic Adventure
Posts: 2,637
Re: 'Roger' does not mean 'Yes'

Another ref - prowords on pg 29: https://www.maritimenz.govt.nz/Publi...dbook-2012.pdf

For general ref, if you note the examples for non-emergency hails, the books say to identify called and calling stations up to 3 times - in most cases once or twice is sufficient and acceptable.
__________________
Lodesman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-04-2015, 22:00   #116
Registered User
 
scuba0_1's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: naples
Boat: 2005 Catalina 350
Posts: 670
Re: 'Roger' does not mean 'Yes'

I's this like what the meaning of is, is to that president guy. Lol

Sent from my SM-N910V using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
__________________
scuba0_1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-04-2015, 22:04   #117
Registered User
 
markpierce's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Central California
Boat: M/V Carquinez Coot
Posts: 3,416
Re: 'Roger' does not mean 'Yes'

The most important "rule" is to know what channel to use in the circumstance. (No radio check on 16, thank you.)
__________________
Kar-KEEN-ez Koot
markpierce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-04-2015, 23:11   #118
Registered User
 
FamilyVan's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,779
Re: 'Roger' does not mean 'Yes'

Monte,

Maybe the approach to VHF use in Canadian and American waters evolved the way it has out of a necessity for that region. The local national ColRegs modifications specifically reference the use of VHF radios to make meeting arrangements.

Canadian and American waters have a vast number of inland waters and canals that create a situation where large vessels up to 1000 feet never see salt water and are always operating in confined waters. In fact, there is an entire fleet of 1000' ships that never operate below Niagara Falls, their entire careers from construction to scrap is spent in the 4 great lakes above the falls.

Here's an example, I sail in western Lake Ontario right now, the prudent mariner operating in western Lake Ontario might seriously consider monitoring the VHF traffic for both up bound and downbound Welland canal, the Burlington Bridge and western lake Ontario coast guard/ VTS channel. So we're already up to 4 channels, 11, 12, 13 and 16. That's not even counting what working channels you may chose to follow- 68 is popular as that's what all yacht clubs and marinas on the lake monitor.

Prior to AIS VHF was the only method available for tracking all the traffic, and most mariners in the region (myself included) still follow many of those pre-AIS procedures.

I think it's because of the nature of navigation on the inland waters, combined with a common language (most of the francophones also speak fluent English), has created a regional way of using the VHF that much of the world hasn't adopted, and in that region, stating what channel you are using makes it easier for the navigator on the other end know what radio to pick up and answer.

Sent from my SGH-I547C using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
__________________
FamilyVan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-04-2015, 04:42   #119
Long Range Cruiser
 
MarkJ's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Australian living on "Sea Life" currently in England.
Boat: Beneteau 393 "Sea Life"
Posts: 12,828
Images: 25
Re: 'Roger' does not mean 'Yes'

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lodesman View Post
Mark,

The proword list is at Appendix A in the downloadable pub at the link in post #1.

.
It says theres a proword list in Appendix A. But did YOU read it?
If you did can you provide the link to it because I couldnt find it. Thats why I linked to other sources


Mark
__________________
Notes on a Circumnavigation.
OurLifeAtSea.com

Somalia Pirates and our Convoy
MarkJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-04-2015, 06:10   #120
Moderator Emeritus
 
GordMay's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario - 48-29N x 89-20W
Boat: (Cruiser Living On Dirt)
Posts: 31,586
Images: 240
Re: 'Roger' does not mean 'Yes'

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkJ View Post
It says theres a proword list in Appendix A. But did YOU read it?
If you did can you provide the link to it because I couldnt find it. Thats why I linked to other sources
Mark
RIC-22 — General Radio Operating Procedures
RIC-22 — General Radio Operating Procedures - Spectrum Management and Telecommunications

Appendix A - Procedural Words and Phrases
RIC-22 — General Radiotelephone Operating Procedures - Spectrum Management and Telecommunications
http ://www .ic.gc.ca/eic/site/smt-gst.nsf/eng/sf05544.html#appenda

“ROGER: I have received all of your last transmission”
__________________

__________________
Gord May
"If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time/$ to fix it?"



GordMay is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
From not so Jolly Roger. Jolly Roger General Sailing Forum 15 17-12-2014 16:48
"Tax not paid" (maybe EU) - what does it mean? welljim General Sailing Forum 15 15-07-2012 09:42
What Does this Mean: 'Not for Sale to US Residents While in US Waters' jacket_fan Dollars & Cents 19 29-11-2009 02:16
What Does Qld Mean? Chief Engineer Off Topic Forum 47 20-06-2009 20:49



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 06:49.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.