Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 27-04-2015, 13:39   #76
Eternal Member
 
monte's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Australia
Boat: Lagoon 400
Posts: 3,650
Images: 1
Re: 'Roger' does not mean 'Yes'

Wow, last couple of posts have really highlighted the need for some sort of regulation, certification requirement as far as I'm concerned. A couple of ex pilots that know it all and if it's good enough for them it's good enough for everyone else, and a boater that has to switch off ch16 because of incessant chatter by unqualified operators. Licensing just a money grabbing idea? Erm ... Good luck with that!


"I think multihulls require less IQ to sail than a monohull" - Duckwheat
__________________

__________________
monte is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-04-2015, 13:42   #77
cruiser

Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: North Charleston, SC
Boat: Camano Troll
Posts: 4,669
Re: 'Roger' does not mean 'Yes'

I thought the marine VHF was so your crew could take a handheld unit ashore to go shopping or sightseeing and keep in touch with those who remained on the boat.
__________________

__________________
rwidman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-04-2015, 13:45   #78
Don't ask if you can't handle it
 
sailorboy1's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: On the boat somewhere
Boat: Hunter 410
Posts: 12,326
Re: 'Roger' does not mean 'Yes'

Is there a point far as what words you use as long as your meaning was clear? Considering the names some people give their boats that later results in someone else having to say it on the radio, Roger doesn't seem much of a radio problem.
__________________
jobless, houseless, clueless, living on a boat and cruising around somewhere
sailorboy1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-04-2015, 13:50   #79
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 7
Re: 'Roger' does not mean 'Yes'

Yip that's a jolly..,.....roger
__________________
CptBobDuv is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-04-2015, 14:05   #80
Registered User
 
FlightPlan's Avatar

Join Date: May 2007
Location: Tulsa, Oklahoma
Boat: Little Harbor 58
Posts: 116
Re: 'Roger' does not mean 'Yes'

Quote:
Originally Posted by jrbogie View Post
sure it can. over means i'm done transmitting, your turn. out means this conversation is finished. over and out means i'm done transmitting and this conversation is finished.
You are just wrong. I thought I was wrong once but I was mistaken.

Over transfers the conversation to the other party.
Out closes the conversation. Doing both is just bad manners, rude, like picking your nose at the dinner table.
__________________
FlightPlan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-04-2015, 14:08   #81
Registered User

Join Date: May 2010
Location: Elsewhere on the Water
Posts: 571
Re: 'Roger' does not mean 'Yes'

When things get serious about improper VHF procedure, sometimes it's funny. This is said to be a true sequence of transmissions according a pilot named Stewart
"Due to take off from JFK New York one morning in our Qantas 707 we were about eighth of fifteen aircraft in line. From one of the aircraft, presumably experiencing a slight problem, a voice over the radio said, "F**k!"
JFK Air Traffic Control (angrily demanding to know): "Who said f**k?"
First aircraft in the line (gave callsign): "I did not say F**K."
Quickly followed by the second in line (gave callsign): "I did not say F**K."
Then the third, and then all of us, one by one, giving the same "I did not say F**K" reply. "
__________________
St. Elsewhere is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-04-2015, 14:11   #82
Senior Cruiser
 
SkiprJohn's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2006
Location: Kea'au, Big Island, Hawaii
Boat: Cascade, Sloop, 42 - "Casual"
Posts: 14,192
Re: 'Roger' does not mean 'Yes'

I used to have a license to use my VHF aboard a sailing vessel in yesteryears in the US. I belive it might have been a station license instead of an operators license.

When I started using sound powered telephones, vhf radios and combat radios the most important lesson was that you be clear in whatever you are trying to transmit. If Roger means yes, then what does affirmative mean? When you want to end your transmission you say "out" or "clear." When I ask a question like is the enemy within hearing distance a simple double click will do. If I ask is your ship the one that's on course 180 true and I hear a reply of Roger I don't know what his/her answer was. All I know is that they understood the question and I'll wait for an answer. A yes or no question cannot be assumed to be either by an answer of Roger.
__________________
John
SkiprJohn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-04-2015, 14:11   #83
Registered User
 
Dsanduril's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: South Pacific
Boat: Outremer 50S
Posts: 1,451
Re: 'Roger' does not mean 'Yes'

'Roger' means understood, there's another proword for "yes", it's 'Wilco' (will cooperate or will comply depending on your definition source). In military radio training you never say 'Roger Wilco', the definitions are:
Quote:
Roger:

I have received your last transmission satisfactorily.
and

Quote:
Wilco:

I have received your signal, understand it, and will comply.
Wilco is only used by the addressee (i.e. if you are acknowledging receipt of a message not intended for you you would say Roger). And Roger-Wilco is right out, the definition of Wilco includes received, understood, and compliance.
__________________
Dsanduril is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-04-2015, 14:15   #84
Registered User
 
FlightPlan's Avatar

Join Date: May 2007
Location: Tulsa, Oklahoma
Boat: Little Harbor 58
Posts: 116
Re: 'Roger' does not mean 'Yes'

Quote:
Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post

( for example if I am in a rally with an agreed working channel, I will use a single identification , as brevity on a busy channel is more useful that " standard " procedure )

The use of ambiguous words like ROGER and WILCO, etc should be avoided, some are throwbacks to telegraphic usage, use simple english like . " I understand " , " I will comply", " all copied and understood" etc.

dave
When you have moved to a working channel single identification is acceptable.
__________________
FlightPlan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-04-2015, 14:17   #85
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 7
Re: 'Roger' does not mean 'Yes'

When you finished commu icating a question or statement you use over to end the transmission between two parties the party speaking g will announce eg. Do you have any clue ...OVER

I have no clue ...anyways thanks I'll be standing by channel 14 or 16 then the name of vessel JOLLY ROGER OUT!!!!
__________________
CptBobDuv is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-04-2015, 14:18   #86
Marine Service Provider
 
Maine Sail's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Maine
Boat: CS-36T - Cupecoy
Posts: 3,060
Re: 'Roger' does not mean 'Yes'

I'll chime in with my peeves

  • When calling a launch or boat yard or club dock from close by please switch to LOW POWER... 68 & 9 and others are very often used for multiple marinas, clubs or fuel docks in close proximity. I can regularly pick up folks calling the fuel dock some 20 miles away. No need for stomping everyone in that swath just to hail the fuel dock from a mooring or at anchor 200 yards away.

  • Stop deep throating the VHF microphone. You are not trying to swallow it, eat it or have a heavy metal rock concert with it. Talk clearly but don't engulf the thing or go all Black Sabbath on it. We can't understand you when you deep throat the mic and SCREAM into it and simply over power the tiny little microphone.

  • Hail on 16 and please get the freak off it and go to a working channel.. Some of us do monitor VHF 16, as required, and we don't enjoy listening to you "Facebooking it" with your buddies. A good friend of mine saved a guys life because he monitored VHF 16, as required. A boat over turned in the early spring and one guy drowned before they got on scene (beat the USCG there because they had VHF 16 on) but they still managed to get one guy aboard and saved his life. Had Steve turned it off due to Buffy & Skippy yapping on, and on, and on, about the lunch they just had with Mortemer and Muffy both of those guys would be dead not just the one. At least here in Maine the USCG is on top of it and will chime in on abusers who are using VHF 16 Facebook.
I am much less bothered by "Roger" than the peeves above...

Rant off...
__________________
Marine How To Articles
Maine Sail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-04-2015, 14:19   #87
Registered User
 
El Pinguino's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Punta Arenas ahorra
Boat: 39' Westerly Sealord
Posts: 3,961
Re: 'Roger' does not mean 'Yes'

Quote:
Originally Posted by St. Elsewhere View Post
When things get serious about improper VHF procedure, sometimes it's funny. This is said to be a true sequence of transmissions according a pilot named Stewart
"Due to take off from JFK New York one morning in our Qantas 707 we were about eighth of fifteen aircraft in line. From one of the aircraft, presumably experiencing a slight problem, a voice over the radio said, "F**k!"
JFK Air Traffic Control (angrily demanding to know): "Who said f**k?"
First aircraft in the line (gave callsign): "I did not say F**K."
Quickly followed by the second in line (gave callsign): "I did not say F**K."
Then the third, and then all of us, one by one, giving the same "I did not say F**K" reply.
Similar to....
long delays ... voice....'I'm bored...'
control... 'Who said that?!'
voice... 'I said I was bored... not stupid'

Normal aviation routine appears to be along the lines of ...
'Velocity 123, climb flight level four zero zero'
'Climb four zero zero, Velocity 123'

Not a roger or a wilco in sight...
El Pinguino is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 27-04-2015, 14:22   #88
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 64
Re: 'Roger' does not mean 'Yes'

As many times mentioned before "as long as the message gets through".


That said, "Roger" is CB-slang just like ten-four.
Roger came out of CW (morse code) abbreviations.
Roger is not good practice but over the years it have become a widely known word for confirming or "affirmative".
Why is it bad practice?
Because it does not mean confirm or affirmative - it means Received.


Speaking about affirmative. You Americans and English whom has the English language as your mother tongue do not have a problem with this but affirmative is not a word which is learned in the first couple of 6-8 years studying English if you are born in a country where another language is spoken. In fact, I probably had 9-10 years of English studies in school and this word never popped up in my glossary homework. It stumbled upon me in other rooms. So when having a radio conversation with someone who uses English as a secondary language it may be wise to rather use roger, I understand or I confirm instead of affirmative in order to not be misunderstood.


Back to roger....
As earlier said roger is a abbreviation from morse code and the meaning is to understand it as "Received".
Morse code being a almost 200 year old invention was actually what influenced the chat and texting abbreviations. Morse code users found many ways to shorten what was needed to be sent by the key.
A R in code is a short, a long and a short. Didahdith is pretty much how it sounds.
So to confirm that previous message was received without doubt the operator can send didahdith didahdith didahdith, many times as 3 Rs send pretty much as one word. But it is also common with just one R.


Speaking about abreviations and morse code. What can be, and what is really the proper use is by using abbreviations from the Q-code.
The international Q-code is worthy to look up. It is 3 letter (on rare occations 4) short abbreviations all starting with Q. The radio operators of military as well as cargo ships would use the Q-code.
Many of the Q-codes has to do with harbor, freight, cargo, and whatnot interesting for a cruiser but there is some very useful Q-codes which could be used and is commonly known among radio operators as well as marine vhf users of some countries pending what is required for licensing. It is also widely used by hams (radio amatuers).
It can be used for morse code, phone/voice modes like FM, AM, SSB as well as digital modes like packet, pactor, pactor 2, psk31, RTTY and the list goes on.


Here is some examples:
QSL - Can you confirm? I confirm. (here is the affirmative)
QRN - Are you disturbed by noise (atmospheric radio noise). I am disturbed by noise.
QRM - Are you disturbed by noise (other radio operators on same or near frequency). I am disturbed by noise.
QSB - Is my signal fading? Your signal is fading. (to be used when the signal is so weak you can only hear part of message).
QTH - What is your current position? My current position is.
QTC - Do you have any messages for me? I have messages for you. (to be used when relaying messages).
QRO - Should I increase my transmission power? Increase your transmitted power. It also means if you say your are QRO that you are transmitting high power.


Now the international phonetics set Romeo as the word for R, it derives from the Nato phonetic alphabet.
Now, in the old fashioned Western Union phonetic alphabet which started with Adams, Boston, Chicago, Denver one could find Roger being the word for R.
Being used solely in the Americas it was picked up by the early CB users in the 50's and that is where it moved on.
Then the common knowledge of Roger was internationalized during one of the Nasa moon trips when a so called "roger beep" was invented for the automatic use of the orbital to end their transmission - makes it easier for Houston ground control to know when the astronauts actually had ended their transmit when the signal and quality was low as the beep would go through much better then a word on voice.


Well, there is some ranting for you.
Please remember..... Roger means Received, not affirmative/confirm/understand.


Cheers,
Magnus
__________________
SM6WET is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-04-2015, 14:22   #89
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 7
Re: 'Roger' does not mean 'Yes'

Well ..,OVER AND OUT !!! IS only used in the movies as I was trained never use over and out in same sentence its not right
__________________
CptBobDuv is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-04-2015, 14:24   #90
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 7
Re: 'Roger' does not mean 'Yes'

Its like a security guard on the radio saying send your mic mean I g send your message send my mic where???
__________________

__________________
CptBobDuv is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
From not so Jolly Roger. Jolly Roger General Sailing Forum 15 17-12-2014 16:48
"Tax not paid" (maybe EU) - what does it mean? welljim General Sailing Forum 15 15-07-2012 09:42
What Does this Mean: 'Not for Sale to US Residents While in US Waters' jacket_fan Dollars & Cents 19 29-11-2009 02:16
What Does Qld Mean? Chief Engineer Off Topic Forum 47 20-06-2009 20:49



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 00:36.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.