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Old 11-11-2011, 13:05   #31
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Re: Rescued at Sea - Are You Prepared ?

NEVER in my 23 years in the USCG and pretty close monitoring of their actions for the last 10 since retiring have I EVER heard of the USCG ASKING SOMEONE TO SCUTTLE THEIR BOAT...is it possible? yes...but I would say the very rarest of things they do. Now taking a knife to an inflatable or liferaft...yes...all the time as they don't want someone else calling in the raft or it blowing around especially on helicopter departures.
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Old 11-11-2011, 13:07   #32
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Re: Rescued at Sea - Are You Prepared?

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Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
I don't think it's patently obvious at all. And I think that's exactly the problem.

For example, how many of the people that have posted in this thread have taken the Safety at Sea seminar?

From what I gather from those who've taken it, this is not covered in that course.

Once you're out of range of the CG (a couple hundred miles?) - this is your option. And even if it's one of Disney's ships pulling up, it's still going to be dangerous (although far less so than with a tanker).

Bottom line is, like eleebana's post above said, if everyone on board knows how dangerous "rescue" can be, they'll be far more motivated to stay on that boat.
Does teaching at and sitting on panels of the Annapolis Safety at Sea event count?
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Old 11-11-2011, 13:39   #33
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Re: Rescued at Sea - Are You Prepared?

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Does teaching at and sitting on panels of the Annapolis Safety at Sea event count?
Hell no! That's kindergarten! Heh-heh.

Seriously, I'm curious about it in that from what I understand SAS is a requirement for "higher echelon" off-shore racing (which I'm interested in right now). So it seems racers are taking advantage of it because it's a requirement. I will do so.

But, how many cruisers take advantage of it? Or do they think it's "just racing stuff - I don't need it"?

Furthermore, how does the current SAS curriculum address this very important/underestimated issue of transferring from your vessel (racing or cruising)? From the feedback - it seems that it doesn't. This alone could be a root problem of people being willing to abandon too easily because rescue seems easier.

As I said in my OP, Ron Trossbach was very kind to correspond with me on this issue via email - and invited input from those in the know (you obviously being one of those).

After being involved in the S/V Triumph discussion, it became pretty clear to me that this is a prime area for improvement. And many sailors on here, SN, and SA seem to agree.

I'd love to help make this happen with the help of every sailor out there. Such a curriculum shouldn't be that hard to develop. And it would be useful both for sailors and for AMVER participants if done right.
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Old 15-11-2011, 11:56   #34
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Re: Rescued at Sea - Are You Prepared ?

Okay - first draft of the proposal is ready for everyone's review (you can't edit - you can just read):

SAFETY CONSIDERATIONS WITH SHIP RESCUES AT SEA

Since I'm pretty clueless in all this (which obviously never stops me from trying), I'm specifically interested in feedback on the content from sailors/racers who have taken SAS training, know ISAF inside and out, or even who have been rescued in this way.

The bottom line is that this syllabus needs to cover all the critical stuff we can think of. We need to nail the content first, then you Grammar Nancies can hammer me for all my writing foibles.

Once we all get it squared away, I'll send it on to Ron T. and Gary J. for their consideration.

Thanks,

Smack

(PS - Doug, please email me with your thoughts and input as well.)
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Old 15-11-2011, 12:42   #35
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Re: Rescued at Sea - Are You Prepared ?

I admire you for taking on this daunting task of raising everyones awareness of just how difficult it is the affect a tranfer at sea from a small vessel to a large commercial one, smackdaddy. One thing to keep in mind for all of us out there cruising is that because of the Jones Act and other restrictions the number of US crewed commercial vesels are dwindling. While it might be feasible to include transfers at sea from small to larger vessels in US maritime academy training, the vast majority of large commercial vessels are manned by third world country deck crews with little or no training and very little if any English speakers. Deck officers now come from a myriad of countries, Scandinavia, Britain, Italy, etc., who do not have as sophisticated maritime schools as the US. This would certainly compromise standardization of training. Nevertheless, just raising the awareness of what you will be faced with trying to get off your little boat on to a hugh behemoth at sea, at night in a storm is a worthwhile and valuable undertaking IMO... Thanks to you, smackdaddy... Capt Phil
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Old 15-11-2011, 13:09   #36
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Re: Rescued at Sea - Are You Prepared ?

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Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
Okay - first draft of the proposal is ready for everyone's review
Given that you are targetting the retard market, probably worth mentioning that once onboard a commercial ship:-

a) you won't be able to choose whether your cabin has an outside window. and it may have been occupied (up to an hour ago) by people with a difference sense of cleanliness than you.

b) you may not have a cabin of your own.

c) the crew are not there to meet your every need.

d) the food will likely not be to your usual tastes. and possibly no vegetarian option.

e) their is likely no swimming pool onboard. nor a gym.

f) you are likely viewed as a PITA that has had to be dealt with - not as an intrepid adventurer to be treated with awe (that comes later if you have a good agent).

g) the crew are likely 3rd world and struggling to take care of family back home. You may have lost "all you had". but for most of them it is more than they ever will have. Even if you can communicate, don't expect a great deal of sympathy or understanding.

h) the Vessel may well drop you off only at the next port of call - That could be China.

I) .........and remember that if demanding "your rights" that they can always put you back where they found you
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Old 15-11-2011, 13:10   #37
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S at S... UK style does not involve boarding rescue vessels... it mainly is jumping of the 5 & 10 metre boards with coveralls and pfd... forming a crocodile and swimming to the life raft and boarding.... thats hilarious...
Then everyone jumps out and takes turns in righting an upturned raft... on the assumption that it was flipped by the wind before anyone could get to it...
All this takes place in a heated indoor pool with no waves and zero wind...
Its not an easy thing.... cannot imagine how hard it could be in a 30kt+wind and 3 - 4metre sea's.... and I'm 6ft2", weigh 80kilo's and am fairly fit...
Take a S at S Course to make you more aware of the difficulties/dangers involved in abondoning ship... then you can honestly say YOU ARE AWARE...
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Old 15-11-2011, 13:19   #38
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Re: Rescued at Sea - Are You Prepared ?

DOJ... LMAO!! Capt Phil
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Old 17-11-2011, 15:37   #39
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Re: Rescued at Sea - Are You Prepared ?

Thanks to everyone who's had a look at the doc. Almost 100 views.

Quote:
Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey View Post
Given that you are targetting the retard market, probably worth mentioning that once onboard a commercial ship:-

a) you won't be able to choose whether your cabin has an outside window. and it may have been occupied (up to an hour ago) by people with a difference sense of cleanliness than you.

b) you may not have a cabin of your own.

c) the crew are not there to meet your every need.

d) the food will likely not be to your usual tastes. and possibly no vegetarian option.

e) their is likely no swimming pool onboard. nor a gym.

f) you are likely viewed as a PITA that has had to be dealt with - not as an intrepid adventurer to be treated with awe (that comes later if you have a good agent).

g) the crew are likely 3rd world and struggling to take care of family back home. You may have lost "all you had". but for most of them it is more than they ever will have. Even if you can communicate, don't expect a great deal of sympathy or understanding.

h) the Vessel may well drop you off only at the next port of call - That could be China.

I) .........and remember that if demanding "your rights" that they can always put you back where they found you
DOJ - I don't think this is at all targeting the "retard" market.

As for the other stuff once you're on the ship...sounds perfectly reasonable. Unless of course you're lucky enough to get picked up by a pimpin' ride like the Sanctuary lads.
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Old 18-11-2011, 03:52   #40
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Re: Rescued at Sea - Are You Prepared ?

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DOJ - I don't think this is at all targeting the "retard" market.
Well, if someone doesn't realise that going up the side of a ship at sea is dangerous - then IMO they are a retard.

Quote:
As for the other stuff once you're on the ship...sounds perfectly reasonable. Unless of course you're lucky enough to get picked up by a pimpin' ride like the Sanctuary lads.
Yeah, but as per my above comments - it sounds like would come as a surprise to your target market......


Why not take 'em aboard a ship (in harbour) and simply get 'em to look down..........
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Old 18-11-2011, 06:31   #41
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Re: Rescued at Sea - Are You Prepared ?

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Well, if someone doesn't realise that going up the side of a ship at sea is dangerous - then IMO they are a retard.



Yeah, but as per my above comments - it sounds like would come as a surprise to your target market......


Why not take 'em aboard a ship (in harbour) and simply get 'em to look down..........
Well, I've encountered a lot of dudes across the forums that hold the position that if a person doesn't know something that seems perfectly obvious to them, that the person is a "retard". Personally, I've never bought this argument.

I hold that very, very few were born with the innate ability to tie a bowline or bleed a diesel at 3 months of age. It's all about education and training. So, the target market here are those that want to learn.

In that regard, your last comment is probably a good idea.
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Old 18-11-2011, 06:41   #42
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Re: Rescued at Sea - Are You Prepared ?

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Well, I've encountered a lot of dudes across the forums that hold the position that if a person doesn't know something that seems perfectly obvious to them, that the person is a "retard". Personally, I've never bought this argument.
I have no problem with folk seeking to learn (nor with Training) - IMO a lack of knowledge alone doesn't make someone a retard. I guess it's more of a gift

But I guess in a world where a bag of Peanuts has a warning "contains nuts" Retard is the new normal ........in 20 years time it will probably be something to aspire to.


Quote:
In that regard, your last comment is probably a good idea.
Probably quite useful for those that don't know what a ship is..........

.....and if you include a picture, make sure it is marked "this way up". and "do not eat".
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Old 18-11-2011, 07:32   #43
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Re: Rescued at Sea - Are You Prepared ?

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I have no problem with folk seeking to learn (nor with Training) - IMO a lack of knowledge alone doesn't make someone a retard. I guess it's more of a gift

But I guess in a world where a bag of Peanuts has a warning "contains nuts" Retard is the new normal ........in 20 years time it will probably be something to aspire to.




Probably quite useful for those that don't know what a ship is..........

.....and if you include a picture, make sure it is marked "this way up". and "do not eat".
BTW - have you taken the SAS course? And are you allergic to peanuts?
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Old 18-11-2011, 09:27   #44
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Re: Rescued at Sea - Are You Prepared ?

I have read your draft. You should realize that no one will risk their lives to save someone. A rescue operation should be a safe procedure. It is when the operation goes wrong that people risk and lose their lives. You cannot ask or force someone to risk its life. Yes some people will take pictures and enjoy the entertainment but the person rescued should be content that he, she, is alive and not blame other for the great fright that he experienced which is all of his making.
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Old 18-11-2011, 09:43   #45
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A Storm at Sea Rescue is never a 'SAFE' thing... try it some time...
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