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Old 11-11-2011, 06:21   #16
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Re: Rescued at Sea - Are You Prepared?

The USCGs main and was ALWAYS my philosophy was that the people being rescued may not be able to help at all so rescues had to be planned for that contingency. Thus the birth (actually expansion) of the rescue swimmer program. When I was a young copilot WE were the rescue swimmers with no training or equipment...boy was THAT exciting!

The scary part is when most rescuees try to help...they often make the situation WAY worse. I see that during simple times now that I'm an assistance tower. While many tell the tale of great experience...many can't tie a bowline (even if they can...now iunder the embarrasment or stress of being towed...they lose that simple skill...heck I just think many don't know how). When I was a USCG helo pilot..hell many skippers were so busy trying to take photos...they wouldn't even hold a steady course when lifting their patient!!! They usually got a good tounge lashing after the hoisting.

Bottom line...if the rescuer isn't prepped for total control and assistance of the rescue...bad things can and will happen. Even with HIGHLY TRAINED AND EQUIPPED rescue teams...at sea, in a storm is a roll of the dice whether things will turn out right. Too many variables. Not saying more ships and people wouldn't benefit from training and equipment upgrade...but it will still come down to overall rescue experience and practice doing it.
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Old 11-11-2011, 06:32   #17
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Re: Rescued at Sea - Are You Prepared?

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Quite likely they were worth saving....
80% of cruisers will break long before the boat does...
I'm sure that statistic is just pulled from your, ah, hat, but just to see what a mess a knockdown can cause take a look at Jeanne Socrates blog.
Sailing Vessel Nereida - Welcome to my journeys
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Old 11-11-2011, 06:34   #18
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That's my baby girl out there saving lives.
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Old 11-11-2011, 06:38   #19
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pirate Re: Rescued at Sea - Are You Prepared?

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Originally Posted by DeepFrz View Post
I'm sure that statistic is just pulled from your, ah, hat, but just to see what a mess a knockdown can cause take a look at Jeanne Socrates blog.
Sailing Vessel Nereida - Welcome to my journeys
Of course I pulled it outa my hat....
Whaddya fink my name is..... GORD...??
Also... I am very well aware of the possibilities...
also am well aware that while some will give up and 'Cry Mayday' there are those who just jury rig and soldier on.... many you'll likely never hear of...
Maybe more training should be focused on 'Survival at Sea' and its techniques..
beyond 'Throw canister in sea and pull cord' in idiot proof? cartoons on the lid... and keeping your boat going...
Rescue at sea is similar to being stranded in the desert and finding an oasis...
just because the trees and brush are green and inviting... does not mean the water is drinkable to save your life.
Its a crap shoot...
Dunno if that made sense...lol
But then again.... do I ever...ROFL
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Old 11-11-2011, 06:39   #20
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Old 11-11-2011, 07:43   #21
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Re: Rescued at Sea - Are You Prepared?

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Wow - I'm surprised there are no comments on this. I've posted this on all the major sailing forums and gotten some really good feedback.

Don't cruisers take safety training too?

I've never even heard of such a course in my area, and if it were available, I would have to weigh -- how likely is this to happen AND the rescuing boat won't be able to tell me what to do?

Compared to other classes I could take that would keep me from ever being in such a fix -- classes on understanding the weather, diesel engine maintenance, advanced sailing skills, advanced navigational skills.

I understand that you value this course very much, but no matter what I think I know, if I want to be rescued I'm going to have to do exactly what the rescuers want me to do. Even if I've taken this class, I have never done it, and most likely not under those exact circumstances.

If you don't trust your rescuers, stay with your boat. If you best option is to go with them, do exactly what they tell you to do.
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Old 11-11-2011, 07:48   #22
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Re: Rescued at Sea - Are You Prepared?

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While I agree real life simulation is impractical and even developing a drill is no assurance that it will be done, just watching the videos provides good insight. And supports the argument for a standardized training, even if it is only a placard that is stuck somewhere by the bailout bag.

As others have noted, the common problem is getting onto the rescue vessel. If the victim has their deck harness on or exposure gear with a hard-point, rescue crews could drop a separate line to the victim for him/her to attach. This would allow the winching up of an unconscious (assuming a shipmate attaches them) or an injured victim and prevent a capable victim from falling.

For my $0.02, it would seem logical to develop some type of standards for victims and rescuers.

Bill
I'm sure I would have my Type V with D rings on, which means I could have a safety tether. I'm sure it wouldn't be my favorite experience but working together I believe I would be saved if it were humanly possible. I think my responsibility is to keep learning as much as I can about sailing safely, and let the rescuers learn their job -- and trust them when the time comes.
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Old 11-11-2011, 08:17   #23
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Re: Rescued at Sea - Are You Prepared?

Great videos and great topic. Seems to me the fastest safest rescue occured with the fellow in the inflatable that was alongside the ship. He stepped into a small cargo net and was hoisted aboard. Except for a few bounces off the hull it seemed to be the least harrowing rescue attempt. I'm thinking some type of cargo net sticking out alongside the hull that can scoop up the survivors might be the way to go. I guess the closest thing I can think of is how people use a small net when picking things out in an aquarium or pool. Only instead of debris or a floating dead fish it would be picking up sailors. The bottom would be weighted to stay below the surface. Once the survivor is skimmed into the net the bottom is hoisted up above the surface and the surivor is in the net like a catch being hoisted aboard a fishing boat.

Another thing that struck me watching the videos I'm glad the rescues were successful though it was sad to see those boats abandoned. I'm thinking that it was a real shame to scuttle that one boat in the French Navy rescue. IMO it might be better to have it remain afloat. It looked like there would be a lot more plastic and other debris released onto the ocean once it sank. I think it better to let it stay afloat with the possibilty that someone might find it and salvage it at some point.
My boat is considered "a coastal cruiser" though some have sailed them them across the Atlantic successfully. There are two books written about those experiences. In one of the books the owner let a friend of his fulfill his life long dream about sailing a boat solo back across the Atlantic after the owner succesfully sailed it to Europe. That "dream" lasted until the first storm. He was taken off by a freighter but, the boat drifted across the Atlantic and ended up in South America. In the other book the boat was abandoned by the owner who IMO had a little too much hubris for his own good. Both cases the boats were salvaged and as far as I know are still sailing today.
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Old 11-11-2011, 08:28   #24
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Re: Rescued at Sea - Are You Prepared?

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You mean that boarding a Ship from a small craft (or a liferaft) is dangerous?

I would have thought that was patently obvious........but within the world of Disney Sailing* probably ain't
I don't think it's patently obvious at all. And I think that's exactly the problem.

For example, how many of the people that have posted in this thread have taken the Safety at Sea seminar?

From what I gather from those who've taken it, this is not covered in that course.

Once you're out of range of the CG (a couple hundred miles?) - this is your option. And even if it's one of Disney's ships pulling up, it's still going to be dangerous (although far less so than with a tanker).

Bottom line is, like eleebana's post above said, if everyone on board knows how dangerous "rescue" can be, they'll be far more motivated to stay on that boat.
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Old 11-11-2011, 08:53   #25
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Re: Rescued at Sea - Are You Prepared?

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I don't think it's patently obvious at all. And I think that's exactly the problem.
I don't really see that as a problem. Well, not for me nor for the rescuing ship - and even the rescuees will start to have at least some enlightenment as they draw nearer a rolling and heaving slab of steel, and even if still not won't really matter.
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Old 11-11-2011, 10:00   #26
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Re: Rescued at Sea - Are You Prepared?

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I'm thinking that it was a real shame to scuttle that one boat in the French Navy rescue. IMO it might be better to have it remain afloat.
I know of a case where the captain of a rescuing cargo ship refused to take on board the skipper of a large disabled ferrying Ferro yacht (15 passengers) unless he scuttled the boat claiming that the unmanned vessel would become a danger to navigation. The yacht skipper did oblige. The yacht did float for a few days but disappeared before a salvage party was able to reach the vessel.
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Old 11-11-2011, 10:36   #27
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Originally Posted by Rakuflames

and let the rescuers learn their job -- and trust them when the time comes.

The assumption in your post is that the rescuers will be USCG or some other professional rescuers. As others have stated, if you need to be rescued in open water, the likely rescue vessel is a civilian merchant vessel. Just seems prudent to have the PFD with the hard point (as you stated) or a harness on. It would be better than the guy who was trying to hold onto a life ring in one of the videos. Or the guy who was lifted on a hook would be able to fend off the side of the hull, instead of bouncing off of it.

But could just be my mindset or training, gear for, prepare for and train for the worst--- and the odds are it will not happen.
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Old 11-11-2011, 10:40   #28
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Re: Rescued at Sea - Are You Prepared?

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I know of a case where the captain of a rescuing cargo ship refused to take on board the skipper of a large disabled ferrying Ferro yacht (15 passengers) unless he scuttled the boat claiming that the unmanned vessel would become a danger to navigation. The yacht skipper did oblige. The yacht did float for a few days but disappeared before a salvage party was able to reach the vessel.

In fact the coast guard often requires that.

I know one guy who was told to do that by the CG. He dutifully went below, but instead of opening seacocks, he set up a radio beacon. He was back to the boat within 24 hours and saved it.
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Old 11-11-2011, 11:14   #29
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Re: Rescued at Sea - Are You Prepared?

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In fact the coast guard often requires that.

I know one guy who was told to do that by the CG. He dutifully went below, but instead of opening seacocks, he set up a radio beacon. He was back to the boat within 24 hours and saved it.
Then why did he get off in the first place? If I were the CG - I wouldn't be happy about that.
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Old 11-11-2011, 11:26   #30
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Re: Rescued at Sea - Are You Prepared ?

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I know one guy who was told to do that by the CG. He dutifully went below, but instead of opening seacocks, he set up a radio beacon. He was back to the boat within 24 hours and saved it.
What? Why did he ever get off in the first place?
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