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Old 13-08-2012, 09:31   #61
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Re: Reluctant Wife

Maybe she isn't being so unreasonable. Her risk for a second primary melanoma (one in another location) is ten times that of the general population. Most dermatologists would say she should at least stay out of the sun from 10 am until 3 pm when the sun is most intense, if not stay out of it completely. Personally, I wouldn't own a boat without a bimini after being in the skin care business.

http://www.aafp.org/afp/2005/0715/p269.html
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Old 13-08-2012, 11:12   #62
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Re: Reluctant Wife

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Originally Posted by olepedersen View Post
Yes you have a problem,one that many sailors/cruisers have experienced.I read all the postings, and nobody suggested looking at yourself, are you a trustworthy captain, in which she has confidence, do you know how to make HER living on a boat
pleasurable ,and can you help her with her anxiety
I was a tad too polite to mention whether the OP (as a Captain) inspires sufficient confidence for the ambition.....but you started it .

And I don't mean that in sexist way - plenty of folks (of both sexes) I puzzle over how they manage to cross the road on their own, let alone an ocean or 2. Sometimes me included .

and also don't mean that assessment has to be fair, confidence is a funny thing .
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Old 13-08-2012, 11:22   #63
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Re: Reluctant Wife

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Originally Posted by tager View Post
Marriage is pretty silly, if you think about it.

"Hey baby, we got a good thing going, why don't we get the church, the state, and the lawyers in on it?"
Before I got married I was 110% in that camp (marriage an archaic irrelevant nonsense). and about 3 squillion percent on the Church end of things (and still am ).

But getting married was the best thing that ever happened to me . It does change "stuff", I guess it comes from the simple declaration both to each other and to the world / wider society that: "you, me, everything".....forever. Especially if you both mean it, rather than as a CV filler - until something better turns up .

Also surprised the sh#t out of her for having much the same reaction as it did for me . and on a purely practical note, being married was damned useful when she got dead.

One day I will do it again - and later will probably discover first hand what I already understand on theory from the viewpoints of others . As some disasters you do have to live through to truly understand.

Not entirely sure what the above has to do with this thread..........
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Old 13-08-2012, 11:54   #64
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Re: Reluctant Wife

A divorce lawyer friend of mine once said something I have found to be fairly true: "Most marriages are formed on the basis of a vote on four factors- the head, the heart, the front plumbing and the wallet pocket." He further stated the usual result of the vote was two to one with one abstention.
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Old 13-08-2012, 12:12   #65
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Re: Reluctant Wife

I thought I was approaching a similar situation. When my first wife left, I bought a boat. I always wanted one but the first wife was not interested.
The boat (CS27) was great fun and turned out to be perfect for courting my second wife.
Then I went crazy and built a big house for our combined family. Well the youngest now has 1 more year of university and I want to male plans. She was reluctant to commit to anything. I was concerned so I investigated and found the book "Changing Course" (link below). I read it and it opened my mind to her way of thinking. She has also read it and we can discuss issues now that we understand each other. She is ready to go, but with restraints,
It cannot be open ended, we should start with a fixed time in mind. If we like it, we can make changes later.
We can not cut all land ties, she wants somewhere to come home to. Close to family.
She will not cross oceans with me, I can do that with some sailing buddies and she will fly over to meet me.
She is worried about my sum exposure, says she will pull me if I don't take care of myself.

She picked the boat. I am doing the work getting it ready, but it is our home so she is part of the decisions.

She has a long Honey-do list that she says has to be done first, Number 1, get this house ready for the market, we are not leaving money on the table.
She wanted to get a smaller house and use that as home base. I told her that if we do this, it will probably be 5 years before we are settled again and ready to go. We could miss our window of opportunity if health issues arise. So let's invest the money to keep it safe until we return. She agrees as long as we don't touch our nest egg.

So, it is a compromise, but it can be done. See you out there in a couple of years !

Amazon.com: Changing Course: A Woman's Guide to Choosing the Cruising Life (9780071360876): Debra Ann Cantrell: Books
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Old 13-08-2012, 13:03   #66
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Re: Reluctant Wife

[QUOTE=mrohr;1010929]Girlfriends sail, wives don't.QUOTE]


Ha... that is too funny.... and too true eh....

My two cents, and I am fighting nearly the same battle... have her read "Changing Directions" an interesting read for the wifie (and you)...

Echo others here... ya gotta find a way to have a land base too... think about what a split will cost you... you CAN afford a condo...

Good Luck...

Cheers
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Old 13-08-2012, 13:54   #67
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Re: Reluctant Wife

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Originally Posted by impi View Post
I have spoken on this topic (and on CF) about this aspect before.

Ana has even posted a section to our blog ... i think it is Impi's solutions for fun as a female sailor and has a section for men and female sailors ...

To keep it short, I think that first of all you would need to equip the boat for every comfort if your wife is already reluctant to do this ... Fresh water and plenty of it for showering, washing clothes etc. Also, put in a washing/drying machine so to have fresh laundry is easy ... hair dryers and other electrical appliances must be easy to run on the boat.

Secondly, plan a route that is easy, safe and includes ways to see the kids often enough. My kids were at first a bit hesitant about me leaving on our cruise but now they LOVE visiting us and joining in on the adventure from time to time.

Thirdly, get a good communication system on board to keep in contact with the outside world. We talk regularly to our kids on skype, email them, have a cat-impi facebook page where they can interact ...

I find it quite astounding that males get confused when we want to sail around following our dreams, never present a plan to our woman, do not assure them that we will keep them comfortable and safe and that financially we have the means to do it ... and then wonder why our wives do not wish to follow 'the dream'.

I am sure that if you broke the news to your wife and also presented her with a clear cut plan of how you will 'kit out the boat' and a plan (which includes safety) as to where you will travel and how you can afford to do this, how and where you will see the kids etc. etc. and that should it be something you both just don't enjoy as much as you thought you would, an exit plan to revert back to living on land ... you would have a good shot at it!
If you don't read Impi's suggestions, your not even trying. An excellent read and so true. It always amazes me that, as male sailors on CF,we can't understand that WE ARE THE ODD ONES! It's our wives that need sympathy, understanding and it's us that need to modify how we plan our sailing so that normal social relationships can be maintained. As far as I can see the OP is starting from a much better base than I did. My wife was terrified of the dinghy ride to the mooring 5 years ago. My advice is to go back to the part that she loved doing and replicate it. From there take baby steps and make sure that each excursion is an enjoyable one for her. These days airfares are cheap so let her maintain friendships and family relationships. Is that too much to ask? A time will come when you'll be glad that one of you put the effort in to value relationships and the relationship that will blossom the most will be your marriage. It's working for me.
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Old 13-08-2012, 13:57   #68
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Re: Reluctant Wife

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Originally Posted by BlueSun View Post
Sorry, but what a load of cr@p!
Blue Sun:Perhaps I overstated my case; instead of "girlfriends sail,wives don't"
It may be more accurate to state: Girlfriends sail.Wives not so much.

FWIW: I sail / cruise mostly alone now but wife may meet and join me for a short stay. There are many wonderful aspects of existence that do not involve a boat and I respect and understand that .Our solution no longer involves full time living aboard or Atlantic crossings but our 30 year marriage remains as strong as ever and I still get my sailing jones satisfied.
I have often said that a boat is just substandard housing ,and this reality is not lost on women who often (not always) do not have the need to "escape" or challenge the elements at O'Dark Thirty.
Clearly there are many here who have experienced disappointment that their ladies are less enthusiastic about leaving behind many of those things that bind them to a land based existence. Pay attention to those items that are important to your lady and try to incorporate some of them into your cruising plans and style.Yes, you will be the one getting wet and cold up on deck at O Dark Thirty ,but at least someone will be keeping your bunk warm when the long tricks over.
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Old 13-08-2012, 14:02   #69
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Re: Reluctant Wife

THINK, vacation on the boat, weekend on the boat, part time on the boat, anything but LIVE on the boat and you're good to go! What's a year on a boat if not 52 weekends?
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Old 13-08-2012, 14:39   #70
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Re: Reluctant Wife

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Originally Posted by bluemoose View Post
I don't believe it can't be win-win.
I hope you are right. But the compromises involving different cruising areas, chartering, etc. don't seem to be a win based on the OP. So it only sounds to me to be win-win possible if the phase "kind of" gets added.

Not everything can really be a win-win and smetimes it's just a settle for-settle for.
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Old 13-08-2012, 14:57   #71
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Re: Reluctant Wife

agreed, but if the choices are: world cruising with a mate that wants to kill you, world cruising in an 22 after the split or a "mostly win-mostly win" of a small house and solid cruiser...... I like my 22, but it won't see anything bigger than Lake Erie. I'll call half a year afloat and half a year to modify something a win, even if it isn't a grand slam, but I see your point.

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Originally Posted by Don Lucas View Post
I hope you are right. But the compromises involving different cruising areas, chartering, etc. don't seem to be a win based on the OP. So it only sounds to me to be win-win possible if the phase "kind of" gets added.

Not everything can really be a win-win and smetimes it's just a settle for-settle for.
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Old 13-08-2012, 15:30   #72
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Re: Reluctant Wife

Timely thread cos my wife and I are currently discussing our options.

Backstory - Married 22 years. I've always sailed one way or another. Mostly windsurfing, but that wasn't something she liked. 6 years ago we bought a trailerable 19' micro-cruiser, she took Basic Cruising (on her own) and so I'm very fortunate to have a wife who enjoys and participates in daysails or weekenders.

Being in our 50's, we've started talking now about what the ideal retirement scenario, and what part a boat will play in that. We're comfortable but not wealthy. Anything to do with boats is fine with me. I asked her what she envisioned us doing, and what she thought she'd enjoy. Her answer was along the lines of: summer Great Lakes cruising (weeks), some chartering in the Caribbean, maybe even trying the snowbird thing of sailing south for the winter and back north in the summer. But not the sell everything, sail the world, and 100% live aboard scenario.

From that, it means having a home somewhere, and a modest but capable boat. As long as said home is close to water and boats... that works for me.

So... the key is knowing what your partner wants, putting that against your wants, and looking for the points of agreement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rtbates View Post
THINK, vacation on the boat, weekend on the boat, part time on the boat, anything but LIVE on the boat and you're good to go! What's a year on a boat if not 52 weekends?
There's alot of wisdom in that, I think.
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Old 13-08-2012, 15:35   #73
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Re: Reluctant Wife

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Originally Posted by bluemoose View Post
or a "mostly win-mostly win" of a small house and solid cruiser......
I thought in the inital post he said that isn't an option.

Sad but lots of happy couples break apart at retirement.
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Old 13-08-2012, 17:51   #74
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Re: Reluctant Wife

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I thought in the inital post he said that isn't an option.

Sad but lots of happy couples break apart at retirement.
Don, you are correct that the OP does not think he can afford both a house and a boat; however, he has two main issues: The funds and the first mate.

FUNDS: He was talking about a "5-10 years and 3 circumnavigation" type boat from my reread of the post. In my opinion (and we all know what those smell like), the OP had a $250k boat (+/- 100k) in mind (yes, this is a guess to try to bound the problem). If you are going to sell a $250k house, and buy a boat in that same range, then use your savings for a kitty.... well you can't make that work with another house, even if the house (or condo) is 50-80% of the cost of the original house. So from that view, he is correct.

However, if the OP starts considering compromise (which is what I've had to do for the last 20 years, any other married guy have to do this? anyone not?), then he can consider that $250k and what type of a $150k house he can get along near a marina. Then to consider what type of $50-60k boat he can get that will round The Horn. Then consider what 40-50k worth of upgrades he wants to add (ok, no reserve, but this is just notional anyways...). This is solvable, and not his most serious issue.

FIRST MATE:
The OP seemed hard over on "my way or the highway" with regards to his vision of retirement and world cruising, but if he modifies his expectations to accomplish a small house and a regional cruising grounds, will that satisfy his desire for world cruising? And if he decided he wanted to go for a long cruise, and the wife didn't want to go, he's back to hateful solitary sailing.

So, I think here is more the issue than the money: Can he survive on regional cruising or sailing long passages alone or with a pick-up crew and keep his wife? The money issue is a far, far secondary issue
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Old 13-08-2012, 18:04   #75
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Re: Reluctant Wife

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Blue Sun:Perhaps I overstated my case; instead of "girlfriends sail,wives don't"
It may be more accurate to state: Girlfriends sail.Wives not so much.
No worries mrohr. I just get frustrated reading threads like this where so often sweeping generalisations are made about women and their motivations. I sometimes wonder if its a generational thing (Im 34) as I encounter this often in the cruising community and it is so far removed from my experience as a youngish, sailing wife!

Anyway, not to derail things - I just hope the conversation can shift away from the sex of the people involved to the real issues - their personalities, preferences and goals.
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