Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 07-08-2013, 21:05   #511
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 1
Re: Regret to Inform Have Lost my Boat off Honduras...

To all forum member who are following these thread. I am the owner of XTC Dive Center in Xcalak. I joined the forum about an hour ago to follow this thread trying to find out more about the Serenity wreck about 6 miles north of us. Apparently there are at least two members who are familiar with Xcalak and how many accidents there has been here in the last few years. Like it was mentioned in one of the posts, we regularly help boats in and out of the cut. There have been more close calls than I would like to remember that could have easily turned into even more accidents. Like many people have mentioned a lot of the skippers are less than fit to be cruising around these waters. I am not a long range cruiser but own and run a relatively large operation with six boats running offshore trips on a daily basis and have spent thousands of hours at sea and can tell a boat/crew that is ready from one that is not. The norm is to run into boats/crew that are not. In this particular case the events took place far away from here and we ended up with the damage due to ocean currents. That doesnīt mean that all the other points arenīt valid. Some people have a problem with the fact that rescue teams arenīt dispatched immediately after a distress call. Really? And with the fact that locals, or "vulchers" strip the boats of valuable belongings, Really? In 34 pages of comments (I read them all) there are maybe two posts that mention the damage made to the reef and more than one stating that the mexican authorities are going to somehow use that to go after the OP. Is it not fair to ask that he present himself (or at least his insurace company) to pay for the boat to be removed and the damage repaired? I hope he reads this and makes an effort to right things. Thank you,
__________________

__________________
divexcalak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2013, 21:59   #512
cruiser

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Tampa Bay area
Boat: Hunter 31'
Posts: 5,731
Re: Regret to Inform Have Lost my Boat off Honduras...

Quote:
Originally Posted by carstenb View Post
I'll admit I've only read the first half of this thread. First my condolences to the OP for losing his boat. No matter why - it has got to be a trauma. I hope it never happens to me.

Multiple cleaning of fuel filters while at sea is not a task I would want to undertake. So I'll give a bit of applause for that.

Ok here's the critique. He notes his goal is to sail into the south pacific. Solo. Whilst I certainly can applaud all those who "just do it", if we're going to have a little sanity, we would prepare for several weeks of single-handing, standing watch all the time (with only short breaks for napping). Even if he was not a experienced sailor, he should have been prepared for exhaustion.

Certainly events cascade and eventually the build-up of issues will lead most (but not all) to feel they are insurmountable.

Nowhere did I read he was in a storm, so the situation, as I see it, was not immediately life-threatening. Rather, the issue was a potential future lift-threat, when and if the boat drifted off to sea, with him in it.

I consider myself a moderately accomplished sailor, and I would have no problems sailing a boat with only the mainsail, which in this case was undamaged. Certainly the lack of an engine is an issue when entering harbor, but he did note he had a dinghy and motor. Why not sail the boat as close as he was comfortable with, drop the hook and take the dinghy the rest of the way in and get a tow?

So much for second guessing, I hope I would have reacted differently.

As I understand it, as things started going wrong, he realized he was under-prepared and accepted the help at hand rather than risk ending up in further trouble and unable to get any help. Those weren't his words, just the conclusions I drew about his decision process. I could be wrong and of course others could disagree on that.

I think it must have been a gut-wrenching decision. I'm sure he thought he was up for the task when he left the dock.

I have only my other sailing friends in real life and many of the people here to have prevented me from making some of the same mistakes. I still pay close attention to what people recommend for open ocean cruising, as i hope to do that as cruise on someone else's boat. As I've said before (and as most here know), a 31' Hunter from the early 80's isn't really a blue water worthy boat. While no doubt there are people here could pull it off, I respect both what I have learned and what I have not yet learned. Personally I would not do it.

I feel for the man. While I say that others have encouraged me to "cool my jets," others have enthusiastically shouted "GO FOR IT!"

In my opinion those people have romanticized the notion of a spunky woman of years taking on sailing as late in life as I did. And yes, it's spunky ... but I still need to respect what I know and don't know.
__________________

__________________
Rakuflames is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2013, 22:08   #513
Senior Cruiser
 
Ocean Girl's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: In transit ( Texas to wherever the wind blows us)
Boat: Pacific Seacraft a Crealock 34
Posts: 4,115
Images: 2
Re: Regret to Inform Have Lost my Boat off Honduras...

Quote:
Originally Posted by divexcalak View Post
To all forum member who are following these thread. I am the owner of XTC Dive Center in Xcalak. I joined the forum about an hour ago to follow this thread trying to find out more about the Serenity wreck about 6 miles north of us. Apparently there are at least two members who are familiar with Xcalak and how many accidents there has been here in the last few years. Like it was mentioned in one of the posts, we regularly help boats in and out of the cut. There have been more close calls than I would like to remember that could have easily turned into even more accidents. Like many people have mentioned a lot of the skippers are less than fit to be cruising around these waters. I am not a long range cruiser but own and run a relatively large operation with six boats running offshore trips on a daily basis and have spent thousands of hours at sea and can tell a boat/crew that is ready from one that is not. The norm is to run into boats/crew that are not. In this particular case the events took place far away from here and we ended up with the damage due to ocean currents. That doesnīt mean that all the other points arenīt valid. Some people have a problem with the fact that rescue teams arenīt dispatched immediately after a distress call. Really? And with the fact that locals, or "vulchers" strip the boats of valuable belongings, Really? In 34 pages of comments (I read them all) there are maybe two posts that mention the damage made to the reef and more than one stating that the mexican authorities are going to somehow use that to go after the OP. Is it not fair to ask that he present himself (or at least his insurace company) to pay for the boat to be removed and the damage repaired? I hope he reads this and makes an effort to right things. Thank you,
Yep, we hope so too. Thanks for your help to the many cruisers who pass your way, local knowledge is so vital at times.

I hope your reef is not too damaged by this incident, and recovers quickly. Let us know if there is anything we can do...?
__________________
Mrs. Rain Dog~Ocean Girl
https://raindogps34.wordpress.com
Ocean Girl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2013, 22:38   #514
֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 13,056
Re: Regret to Inform Have Lost my Boat off Honduras...

If there is still any confusion about chart datums. Imagine that the chart is just an illustration, with no latitude or longitude lines on it. No numbers, no grid. Now add a wire grid, of the lat/long lines, laying on top of the chart and able to be moved anywhere.

The question is, where do you move it? Which corner becomes "zero, zero" or "80, 30" or whatever your position is?

The datum tells you which global positioning (not to be confused with GPS) scheme was used to prepare the map and where the author of the map thinks the numbers should be aligned. Because it is damned hard to physically measure positions circling around the world, and the world is not a perfect sphere, there have been different constructs for positions over the years.

So on a paper chart, there's a note (usually!) that says which datum was used to make that chart. There are formulas that can convert from one datum to another, based on the known differences in offset in different locations. Of course, that's fairly cumbersome to apply to a paper chart.

But with electronic charts, the chart viewing software and the positioning software (i.e. GPS) allow you to select the datum that they are using, with the rash assumption that it is usually WGS87 for GPS users. It won't always be, and if someone makes the mistake of "getting" charts from an unknown source, or forgetting to change a datum setting, they can wind up helixed.

Heck, even if you know the datum you can be helixed because some software uses the DD.MM.SS format while others use DD.MM.mm or DDdddd and there isn't always any prominent note about it. (Which is why properly noting these things matters.)

Then there are charts that are simply incorrect, based on old inaccurate surveys. They are often known well locally, but unknown to travelers. There's a USGS topo map that was reproduced for years by a major hiking club with "NOTE TO ENEMY BOMBERS" printed at the bottom, mentioning a displacement of several miles. And I've seen a NOAA chart show structures on land 1/3 mile off from their GPS position, supposedly on the same datum in a well-charted area.

Charts? Yeah, well, using a chart instead of a gas station map doesn't buy you anything unless you are aware that they both have certain limitations. In the States we're probably spoiled by GPS and so many charts being drawn to the same WGS87 datum.

But you only need to drive around with a Garmin (or any other brand) for a month to find out that even when everything is on the same standard, some things just aren't where the box says they are.

Or as the Mad Hatter said, "But it was the very best of butter!"
__________________
hellosailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2013, 00:42   #515
Registered User
 
CarinaPDX's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Portland, Oregon, USA
Boat: 31' Cape George Cutter
Posts: 1,682
Re: Regret to Inform Have Lost my Boat off Honduras...

Hellosailor- good post, but one correction: I think you mean WGS84, not WGS87.

Divexcalak- good post, and well appreciated. But please don't interpret comments about the reception of the OP in Mexico as encouraging him to avoid responsibility, or critical of the Mexican government - quite the contrary. The OP posted that he was off to Mexico to recover his boat and be on his way, which was understood by many to be incredibly naive (as it seems was much about the OP's efforts). It was naive in thinking that his boat had a chance of continuing the trip, and naive not to realize that he would (correctly) be held responsible for the wreck. I for one expect him to go there and make things right, and if he doesn't own up to his responsibilities the Cruisers Forum should censor him in the strongest terms.

Greg
__________________
CarinaPDX is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2013, 04:43   #516
Armchair Bucketeer
 
David_Old_Jersey's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 10,013
Images: 4
Re: Regret to Inform Have Lost my Boat off Honduras...

Quote:
Originally Posted by divexcalak View Post
To all forum member who are following these thread. I am the owner of XTC Dive Center in Xcalak. I joined the forum about an hour ago to follow this thread trying to find out more about the Serenity wreck about 6 miles north of us. Apparently there are at least two members who are familiar with Xcalak and how many accidents there has been here in the last few years. Like it was mentioned in one of the posts, we regularly help boats in and out of the cut. There have been more close calls than I would like to remember that could have easily turned into even more accidents. Like many people have mentioned a lot of the skippers are less than fit to be cruising around these waters. I am not a long range cruiser but own and run a relatively large operation with six boats running offshore trips on a daily basis and have spent thousands of hours at sea and can tell a boat/crew that is ready from one that is not. The norm is to run into boats/crew that are not. In this particular case the events took place far away from here and we ended up with the damage due to ocean currents. That doesnīt mean that all the other points arenīt valid. Some people have a problem with the fact that rescue teams arenīt dispatched immediately after a distress call. Really? And with the fact that locals, or "vulchers" strip the boats of valuable belongings, Really? In 34 pages of comments (I read them all) there are maybe two posts that mention the damage made to the reef and more than one stating that the mexican authorities are going to somehow use that to go after the OP. Is it not fair to ask that he present himself (or at least his insurace company) to pay for the boat to be removed and the damage repaired? I hope he reads this and makes an effort to right things. Thank you,
Fair comment .

In an ideal world he would "present himself" (and bank account) to make good the damage............But living in a less than ideal world, IMO he would be an idiot not to send his insurance company in first - and if no insurance coverage would be best advised to give Mexico a miss..........and that nothing to do with it being Mexico - just that when you are guilty as sin IME best not to voluntarily put nuts onto the chopping block - at least not without knowing beforehand that things will turn out ok........in this case I see a risk of being detained (even if only whilst matters are investigated), and that ain't gonna repair the reef - likely that only time will anyway, no matter what compo the insurance company pays.
David_Old_Jersey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2013, 06:15   #517
cruiser

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Tampa Bay area
Boat: Hunter 31'
Posts: 5,731
Re: Regret to Inform Have Lost my Boat off Honduras...

Quote:
Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey View Post
Fair comment .

In an ideal world he would "present himself" (and bank account) to make good the damage............But living in a less than ideal world, IMO he would be an idiot not to send his insurance company in first - and if no insurance coverage would be best advised to give Mexico a miss..........and that nothing to do with it being Mexico - just that when you are guilty as sin IME best not to voluntarily put nuts onto the chopping block - at least not without knowing beforehand that things will turn out ok........in this case I see a risk of being detained (even if only whilst matters are investigated), and that ain't gonna repair the reef - likely that only time will anyway, no matter what compo the insurance company pays.

Of course. How many people have announced here that they are "self-insured?"

In the country one lives in, the person knows what kind of risk he or she is taking. In a foreign country, not so much.
__________________
Rakuflames is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2013, 06:33   #518
Armchair Bucketeer
 
David_Old_Jersey's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 10,013
Images: 4
Re: Regret to Inform Have Lost my Boat off Honduras...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rakuflames View Post
Of course. How many people have announced here that they are "self-insured?"

In the country one lives in, the person knows what kind of risk he or she is taking. In a foreign country, not so much.
but the odds are that whether any money is paid or not that the reef will only be fixed through time (and that after boat having been dragged off / through the reef).

IMO the reef should also be insured as an uninsured event is predictable - and it is, by the Govt (aka the locals).
David_Old_Jersey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2013, 06:34   #519
Moderator Emeritus
 
GordMay's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario - 48-29N x 89-20W
Boat: (Cruiser Living On Dirt)
Posts: 31,592
Images: 240
Re: Regret to Inform Have Lost my Boat off Honduras...

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, divexcalak.
__________________
Gord May
"If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time/$ to fix it?"



GordMay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2013, 12:16   #520
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 8
Re: Regret to Inform Have Lost my Boat off Honduras...

Oh my word... best wishes
__________________

__________________
goodlife247 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
Honduras, lost, paracelle

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Refurbing / Refitting an Older boat - Advice and Ideas David_Old_Jersey Construction, Maintenance & Refit 529 02-06-2015 18:21
For Sale or Trade: 565+ Nautical E-Books Crimea Cruiser Classifieds Archive 10 23-06-2013 21:33
A Good Safe Passage Maker capta Monohull Sailboats 43 26-11-2012 23:14
Differences Between Ground, Apparent, and True Wind Direction twistedtree Navigation 92 26-12-2011 14:48



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 00:13.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.