Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 01-08-2013, 17:51   #301
Long Range Cruiser
 
MarkJ's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Australian living on "Sea Life" currently in England.
Boat: Beneteau 393 "Sea Life"
Posts: 12,828
Images: 25
Re: Regret to Inform Have Lost my Boat off Honduras...

Quote:
Originally Posted by kmacdonald View Post
Adhesive backed dacron tape or adhesive backed insignia dacron work well for what they were made for, temporary sail repair. Home brews by the unprepared are sketchy at best.
LOL

There is a remark from the uninitiated.

My repairs work.

__________________

__________________
Notes on a Circumnavigation.
OurLifeAtSea.com

Somalia Pirates and our Convoy
MarkJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2013, 17:51   #302
Registered User
 
Teknav's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Texas - USA
Boat: Twin Otter de Havilland Floatplane
Posts: 1,838
Re: Regret to Inform Have Lost my Boat off Honduras...

"Captain Blood" is a favorite swashbuckling movie of mine, starring Errol Flynn and Olivia de Havilland. Some scenes were shot at The Baths, Virgin Gorda - BVI.

Mauritz
Going to behave now!
__________________

__________________
Retired - Don't Ask Me To Do A Damn Thing!
Teknav is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2013, 17:53   #303
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2012
Boat: Custom 30
Posts: 154
Images: 9
Re: Regret to Inform Have Lost my Boat off Honduras...

Quote:
Originally Posted by kmacdonald View Post
As with all stories like this, my first thought is "was it insured?" and secondly "is there a note on it?" and thirdly "are the payments current?" Depending on the answers, all quesswork could be eliminated real fast.
You can read through the gentleman's posts here and answer all three of those questions, he was looking to buy a boat under 22k, and he was looking for an insurer, so I'd say yes insured, no note, paid for and current. He removed the CG Documentation, paid his sales tax and registered in Texas.

Looks like he got tired of fooling with installing his instabreeze wind gen that never worked, and went sailing without it. He made many posts looking for electronic charts of his intended cruising areas before transiting the canal. He sought help with Opencpn. I will bet all of his navigation was electronic, no paper charts. He was at least without a chart for the coast to his lee.

Seems he sailed from South Padre Island to Cayman Islands from whence he made the final voyage.

Since he is returning to Texas to buy another boat, he must have gotten the insurance (that's why my rates are so high), and believes they are going to pay.


He went to sea with power dependent systems, which only had one charging source. He was unprepared without even basic backup navigational equipment, backup sails/repair kit, duly diligent study of destination coastline and alternate landfalls, back up fuel/separator filters, sail chafing protection, etc.. Even his food supply depended on refrigeration, without backup. He could not retrieve water without power either,without backup.

His unpreparedness has consequences. A beautiful boat is lost. Parts of a delicate ecosystem were destroyed. Money will have to be spent, or further damage to the reef allowed. Honduran authorities may look differently toward US flagged vessels (even though a Swiss Ecuadoran was responsible). If his claim is paid, the entire pool of insureds will pay it. A merchant ship had to stop engines, lose time, steam away, then return to pick him up, none of which is without costs.

He participated in a thread here discussing Boat US's requirement for 3 aboard while offshore. Perhaps now he can see why we are all penalized with clauses like that. His crew bailed on him early, yet neither his plan nor preparations changed.

Unless his Hunter was insured for more than he paid for it, we can assume his next try will be in a boat that costs much less than the "under 22k" he had in the Hunter. Looks like next time he'll have to sail to Panama direct.

Is this constructive criticism? The question is, constructive for whom? For the OP? Certainly not, but his active use of this knowledge base didn't help much before, and for him the only culprit is bad diesel fuel.

Is this discussion constructive for the many who come here to learn? Hell yes. We all learned primarily by reading and hearing of the triumphs and tragedies going back to Slocum. The story and this discussion would have surfaced anyway, now that the wreck is on the reef. The OP's other internet postings are there for all to see, and reveal his preparations and decision making processes in detail.

There may be another person who just signed up, with 22 grand for a Hunter, who just may learn something from this discussion that will save a boat, a reef, maybe even a life or two.

Zingers never killed anyone.

'
__________________
Custom30 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2013, 17:59   #304
Rav
Registered User
 
Rav's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: UK (North East)
Boat: Semaster Sailer 23
Posts: 35
Re: Regret to Inform Have Lost my Boat off Honduras...

Quote:
Originally Posted by letsgetsailing3 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by rebel heart "This guy, his boat, and his decisions are a total mess."

Constructive criticism, or zinger?
Quote:
Originally Posted by kmacdonald View Post
Constructive criticism, both counts.
So, Kmac, you think that is CONSTRUCTIVE criticism.

So, who do you speak to like that when they make a mistake?
Your staff, your colleagues, your partner, your kids?

Does it work?

Maybe, I should try it out. One of my kids has just finished school and is waiting for his exam results. If he doesn't get the grades , maybe I'll just say "you and your studying are a total mess".

That would be really CONSTRUCTIVE. I am sure that it will really help the situation.

If you think that is CONSTRUCTIVE, you should either get a dictinary or some social skills. (That is not me being rude. That is my honest, CONSTRUCTIVE opinion.)
__________________
Rav is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2013, 18:08   #305
Rav
Registered User
 
Rav's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: UK (North East)
Boat: Semaster Sailer 23
Posts: 35
Re: Regret to Inform Have Lost my Boat off Honduras...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don L View Post
You know:

With 18 miles to go (or even 150) I never would have bothered trying to repair the torn head sail while under way, I would have just sailed on the main (like the boat did in fact do). And if the wind was light, I have a spinnaker.

And assuming the batteries started out mostly charged, if I turned off the refrigerator the batteries would last days in normal seas.

Lets face it, panic set in and after that all bets are off. Once you decide to abandon your boat when it isn't sinking logic no longer applies.
Don L. As you suggest, something doesn't add up. My GUESS would be sea sickness. Extreme seasickness is no minor thing. As I am sure you are aware, some people stop caring whether they live or die. It would explain alot.

Pure conjecture but it is a possible explanation.
__________________
Rav is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2013, 18:19   #306
Registered User
 
CarinaPDX's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Portland, Oregon, USA
Boat: 31' Cape George Cutter
Posts: 1,674
Re: Regret to Inform Have Lost my Boat off Honduras...

Seasickness is certainly a possible explanation. But so is panic. I think it more likely that the OP was simply overwhelmed with the situation he found himself in. Given that he was not prepared to continue on, accepting a rescue was the wise course.

People who buy modern boats with all of the equipment are likely to be concerned when a significant amount of that equipment no longer functions. It makes perfect sense to view the boat as crippled and to have doubts about the situation. For those of us who have been in this for awhile, let me add some perspective: as damaged as this boat was, it was arguably more seaworthy than any of the original single-handed round-the-world sailboats. This boat was perfectly capable of being sailed into harbor; it was the skipper that was not capable. But coming from the perspective of a fully-functioning modern boat, the glass was half empty. I argue that it was half full, and certainly not down to the dregs.

Greg
__________________
CarinaPDX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2013, 18:21   #307
Senior Cruiser
 
S/V Antares's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Annapolis, Bahamas
Boat: 1983 Gulfstar 36
Posts: 1,249
Images: 1
Re: Regret to Inform Have Lost my Boat off Honduras...

It boils down to not being able to purge the water out of the tank.

I routinely pump out any spooge in my fuel tank through a plug used to dip the level. A simple outboard squeez bulb and a bit of 10mm rigid hose and pump it into a clear plastic water bottle. I once pumped several gallons out in only 20 min. After the first bowl was emptied it would be clear there was more where that came from. it would have been wise to get the water out of the tank. Filter/Separators can only accomodate a limited volume.

Sometimes conditions are such that one can be forced to make a decision based on an inability to improve on a bad situation. Fortunatly the OP is alive and can ponder this.
__________________
Will & Muffin
Lucy the dog

"Yes, well.. perhaps some more wine" (Julia Child)
S/V Antares is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2013, 18:23   #308
Rav
Registered User
 
Rav's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: UK (North East)
Boat: Semaster Sailer 23
Posts: 35
Re: Regret to Inform Have Lost my Boat off Honduras...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate View Post
The OP may have underestimated the challenges of singlehanding,
Ann
Great post and I agree with all of what you say.

One interestnig fact ..... when the great Joshua Slocum set sail to go around the world ALONE, it was the first and only time that he had sailed single handed. Honest! Sure, he had racked up thousands of miles and built a boat on a remote beach out of wood from the nearest forest and nails he smelted himself, but he set off to sail around the world without a single minute's singlhanding experience.

Can you imagine the flaming that he would have taken from some of the people on this forum for that!

Actually, I reckon that there really are a few people on here who really would try to tell Joshua Slocum how it should be done!
__________________
Rav is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2013, 18:27   #309
********* Emeritus
 
SaucySailoress's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 8,236
Re: Regret to Inform Have Lost my Boat off Honduras...

There are a few things I would like to say here:
  1. I also applaud the OP for having had the bravery to come and tell his story in order that we may learn from it, having personally asked the OP to do so via PM.
  2. I truly appreciate the pointers which have arisen in the thread. Although I don't think I have seen any new ideas (except the concept of condensation causing water in fuel had never occurred to me before), I still recognise that the massive amount of redundancy we have on our boat is pertly due to the wealth of information I have gained over the past years from CF. And here it all is one on thread. Thankyou, SySerenity for opening up this channel of information for many people.
  3. I am still sorry for your loss, glad you know where she is now, and hope that the salvage works in your favour.
About fixing the sails with duct tape - when we relaunched a rebuilt Eliminator32 back in 2001, the new luff tapes on the new foresails didn't fit the luff foil we had. We took the foil off, duct taped lugs to the sail, hoisted it and sailed from Kuwait to Bahrain and back again. Through a storm with 30ft swell, which caused us to seek refuge in a Saudi fishing harbour.


So yes, duct tape CAN hold sails up in a pinch, and quite well at that.
__________________

SaucySailoress is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2013, 18:28   #310
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Easton, MD
Boat: Catalina 22 Capri
Posts: 1,017
Re: Regret to Inform Have Lost my Boat off Honduras...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rav View Post
So, Kmac, you think that is CONSTRUCTIVE criticism.

So, who do you speak to like that when they make a mistake?
Your staff, your colleagues, your partner, your kids?

Does it work?

Maybe, I should try it out. One of my kids has just finished school and is waiting for his exam results. If he doesn't get the grades , maybe I'll just say "you and your studying are a total mess".

That would be really CONSTRUCTIVE. I am sure that it will really help the situation.

If you think that is CONSTRUCTIVE, you should either get a dictinary or some social skills. (That is not me being rude. That is my honest, CONSTRUCTIVE opinion.)
Glad you asked and as a matter of fact it does work. My daughter graduated valedictorian of the USMA at West Point in 2011 and is now in medical school at Brown. Hugs and kisses were not given to encourage failure. Hard work and sound judgement was required.

Best wishes for your childs exam results.

I don't take your opinion as rude. Unfortunately it is becoming more the norm to refuse responsibility for ones actions.
__________________
kmacdonald is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2013, 18:42   #311
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Melbourne Florida
Boat: Columbia 24
Posts: 98
Re: Regret to Inform Have Lost my Boat off Honduras...

This forum is hilarious
__________________
Eumelia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2013, 18:49   #312
cruiser

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Tampa Bay area
Boat: Hunter 31'
Posts: 5,731
Re: Regret to Inform Have Lost my Boat off Honduras...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
No one can ever be 100% ready for anything the sea can dish out to a sailor in a small boat. Not even 90% ready. Not even 50% ready, probably.

We were all beginners once and we all learned most of what we know by making mistakes, mostly stupid ones. By the grace of God, they didn't kill us, and most of us didn't lose boats, but it could have happened to any of us.

I'm not saying you shouldn't learn anything -- of course you should. You need to know a lot of things, and you need to have a lot of skills, including how to fix broken systems. It's also very useful to be tough, resourceful, and stubborn by one's character. But not any single one of us waited to go to sea until we had amassed very many of the needed skills -- not one. In this sport, the training is mostly of the school of hard knocks variety. In my opinion, it's ridiculous to blame someone for going to sea "unprepared" -- we are all unprepared, to some degree or another, every time we go to sea. You get gradually better prepared as you learn from making mistakes -- that's the only way forward. But you're still only relatively prepared. And anyone who thinks otherwise is making just one more rookie mistake.

Bravo for an outstanding statement!
__________________
Rakuflames is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2013, 18:50   #313
Registered User
 
Teknav's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Texas - USA
Boat: Twin Otter de Havilland Floatplane
Posts: 1,838
Re: Regret to Inform Have Lost my Boat off Honduras...

I think this thread has run its course. Maybe one of the MOD's would be kind enough, and shut it for posterity.

Mauritz
President - Mutual Admiration Society <What a crock!>
__________________
Retired - Don't Ask Me To Do A Damn Thing!
Teknav is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2013, 19:00   #314
Rav
Registered User
 
Rav's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: UK (North East)
Boat: Semaster Sailer 23
Posts: 35
Re: Regret to Inform Have Lost my Boat off Honduras...

Quote:
Originally Posted by CarinaPDX View Post
Seasickness is certainly a possible explanation. But so is panic. I think it more likely that the OP was simply overwhelmed with the situation he found himself in. Given that he was not prepared to continue on, accepting a rescue was the wise course.

Greg
Carina - The reasons that I GUESS it may have been sea sicknes are -:

A. The reason that i don't think it was panic is that he initially refused rescue and stayed on his vessel for ?4 or 5 hours? after the rescue vessel had steamed off before asdking if they were willing to return and rescue him, after all. If someone is panicing / hysterical, i would expect them to be desparate to get off the boat at the very first opportunity.

B. I can't see any reason other than sea sickness why anyone with a boat with a working mainsail would have had any problem under the curcumstances. I just can't believe that anyone would set off for a long passage without the basic sailing knowledge of a kid sailing an optimist.

C. I assume that the OP has hoisted his mainsail and experienced sailing with a furled genoa. I find it impossible to believe that he was not aware that you can sail a boat under main.

D. If the problem was navigation and a lack of charts, I am sure that the rescuing vessel would have happily given him a chart or a copy of one.

He makes no mention of sea sickness so I could be barking up the wrong tree, but alot of people don't like to admit to seasickness.

Certainly, something does not add up.

Ravi
__________________
Rav is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2013, 19:03   #315
Resin Head
 
minaret's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Seattle WA
Boat: Nauticat
Posts: 7,199
Images: 52
Re: Regret to Inform Have Lost my Boat off Honduras...

Quote:
Originally Posted by SaucySailoress View Post
There are a few things I would like to say here:
  1. I also applaud the OP for having had the bravery to come and tell his story in order that we may learn from it, having personally asked the OP to do so via PM.
  2. I truly appreciate the pointers which have arisen in the thread. Although I don't think I have seen any new ideas (except the concept of condensation causing water in fuel had never occurred to me before), I still recognise that the massive amount of redundancy we have on our boat is pertly due to the wealth of information I have gained over the past years from CF. And here it all is one on thread. Thankyou, SySerenity for opening up this channel of information for many people.
  3. I am still sorry for your loss, glad you know where she is now, and hope that the salvage works in your favour.
About fixing the sails with duct tape - when we relaunched a rebuilt Eliminator32 back in 2001, the new luff tapes on the new foresails didn't fit the luff foil we had. We took the foil off, duct taped lugs to the sail, hoisted it and sailed from Kuwait to Bahrain and back again. Through a storm with 30ft swell, which caused us to seek refuge in a Saudi fishing harbour.


So yes, duct tape CAN hold sails up in a pinch, and quite well at that.


I'm surprised any of you aren't fully clued in to the condensation issue, but in retrospect it makes sense. I doubt you have much concern with condensation in YOUR location! But I assure you, it is a very well known and sometimes severe problem in environments like mine. This is why a stored boat should have the tanks topped up, because moisture condensation is about square footage of exposed interior tank wall. Think about it, metal tank wall is colder than it's surrounding air, particularly if it touches the hull below the waterline. This causes perfect conditions for condensation on the inner tank wall. I have seen very large amounts of water (several gallons or more) condense in large steel tanks in only a couple of years around here. Probably not a problem for those who live in very dry areas though.
__________________

__________________
O you who turn the wheel and look to windward,

Consider Phlebas, who was once handsome and tall as you.
minaret is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
Honduras, lost, paracelle

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Refurbing / Refitting an Older boat - Advice and Ideas David_Old_Jersey Construction, Maintenance & Refit 529 02-06-2015 18:21
For Sale or Trade: 565+ Nautical E-Books Crimea Cruiser Classifieds Archive 10 23-06-2013 21:33
A Good Safe Passage Maker capta Monohull Sailboats 43 26-11-2012 23:14
Differences Between Ground, Apparent, and True Wind Direction twistedtree Navigation 92 26-12-2011 14:48



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 00:03.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.