Registration vs License (CND)

[pcmm]

Originally Posted by Comix Bay

Look up Transport Canada's Form 6 Bill of Sale, three pages long. May be what you want.

And its not quite logical! We got caught out by it. you own 64 shares in your vessel ( the queen gets the other 36) but if your are co-owners, you don't each own 32 shares ( which is logical) you each own 64 shares!

[alctel]

Originally Posted by pcmm

And its not quite logical! We got caught out by it. you own 64 shares in your vessel ( the queen gets the other 36) but if your are co-owners, you don't each own 32 shares ( which is logical) you each own 64 shares!

Oh yeah, I forgot about the completely illogical 'shares' thing

[fxykty]

That sounds weird (haven't looked at the linked document) about the share distribution as a ship has only one set of 64 shares and does not issue more shares like a company can. Each owner has x of 64 shares: 64 if you're a single owner, 32 each if you are a joint owner with another person, and so on. If there are more than 64 owners (a syndicate?) then fractions of shares are OK. As are unequal share distributions if one person owns a larger proportion than the other person e.g. 40 to one and 24 to the other. But never more than 64. This dates back to the days of syndicates at Lloyds and the East India Company.

[pcmm]

Originally Posted by mitiempo

Previous owner's bill of sale when he/she purchased.

Previous owners bill of sale IS NOT required for registration. Or at least it was not required when I registered my vessel 2 years ago!

[pcmm]

Originally Posted by mitiempo

Previous owner's bill of sale when he/she purchased.

Previous owners bill of sale IS NOT required for registration. Or at least it was not required when I registered my vessel 2 years ago!

[pcmm]

Originally Posted by fxykty

That sounds weird (haven't looked at the linked document) about the share distribution as a ship has only one set of 64 shares and does not issue more shares like a company can. Each owner has x of 64 shares: 64 if you're a single owner, 32 each if you are a joint owner with another person, and so on. If there are more than 64 owners (a syndicate?) then fractions of shares are OK. As are unequal share distributions if one person owns a larger proportion than the other person e.g. 40 to one and 24 to the other. But never more than 64. This dates back to the days of syndicates at Lloyds and the East India Company.

Unfortunately it doesn't work like that for Canadian shares in a registered vessel. When I submitted my application I initially did that. My wife had 32 shares and I had 32 shares ( for a total of 64). My initial application was rejected as this was deemed incorrect. I called transport Canada for for clarification as we were co-owners and logically we each own half the shares. I was told that this was incorrect and was the reason my application was rejected. It was only approved when I resubmitted with each of us owning 64 shares ( despite my explaining that if we each owned 64 shares then that's a total of 128 shares, but according to the gov't if we each own 64 shares and are co-owners, then the total is still magically 64 shares! govt logic!)

Gotta love govt logic!

[Bear15]

I'm also in the process of transferring registration for the boat I bought (Canadian), I've read some of the responses about not receiving a tax bill in these cases, which I'm all for, and personally know of two such cases, my question now being: I've read elsewhere that when you travel and enter another country, you have to be able to show the applicable taxes were paid where ever you bought it or they could charge you the taxes on the spot (not sure if they meant the taxes at their rate or the rate of the taxes in which ever country you bought it in), or does having the boat "registered " vs "licensed" make it a non issue, meaning you won't be asked to produce anything like that?
Thanx in advance for any responses.

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by Bear15

I'm also in the process of transferring registration for the boat I bought (Canadian), I've read some of the responses about not receiving a tax bill in these cases, which I'm all for, and personally know of two such cases, my question now being: I've read elsewhere that when you travel and enter another country, you have to be able to show the applicable taxes were paid where ever you bought it or they could charge you the taxes on the spot (not sure if they meant the taxes at their rate or the rate of the taxes in which ever country you bought it in), or does having the boat "registered " vs "licensed" make it a non issue, meaning you won't be asked to produce anything like that?
Thanx in advance for any responses.

Quite simply ..... untrue !
No one will ask you to provide proof of tax payment.

Neither Revenue Canada nor Ships Registrar talk to one and other. It is your responsibility to report purchase of a registered vessel to Revenue Canada (no one does) Once in a rare while Rev Can will peruse the TC records and catch someone who has failed to pay tax ..... a rare event indeed.

[Bear15]

Thanx for the quick reply boatpoker, I've also read something like that before to, since we'll be bound for warmer climates in a couple years, it is one of many things that has been on my mind, good to know, thanx.

[hamburking]

Originally Posted by Bear15

Thanx for the quick reply boatpoker, I've also read something like that before to, since we'll be bound for warmer climates in a couple years, it is one of many things that has been on my mind, good to know, thanx.

I totally agree with boatpoker....I've been back and forth across the border (can-am) with many boats on many trips...taxes have never been brought up. Its only an issue when buying and registering/licensing the boat. My preference is still "under 10hp" so there are no issues, no paperwork, no tax, no hassles at all.

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by Bear15

Thanx for the quick reply boatpoker, I've also read something like that before to, since we'll be bound for warmer climates in a couple years, it is one of many things that has been on my mind, good to know, thanx.

Enjoy !
We are currently in the Abacos
Photolog here for a preview of what to expect when you cruise south

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by pcmm

Unfortunately it doesn't work like that for Canadian shares in a registered vessel. When I submitted my application I initially did that. My wife had 32 shares and I had 32 shares ( for a total of 64). My initial application was rejected as this was deemed incorrect. I called transport Canada for for clarification as we were co-owners and logically we each own half the shares. I was told that this was incorrect and was the reason my application was rejected. It was only approved when I resubmitted with each of us owning 64 shares ( despite my explaining that if we each owned 64 shares then that's a total of 128 shares, but according to the gov't if we each own 64 shares and are co-owners, then the total is still magically 64 shares! govt logic!)



Gotta love govt logic!

This apparent distribution of 64 shares each for a total of 128 may actually be an awkward way of indicating that in Canada (and other community property countries) a married couple cannot own something separately. So you each own 64 shares, but they're the same set of 64, owned jointly.

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by fxykty

This apparent distribution of 64 shares each for a total of 128 may actually be an awkward way of indicating that in Canada (and other community property countries) a married couple cannot own something separately. So you each own 64 shares, but they're the same set of 64, owned jointly.

It has nothing to do with community property. It is a system of ownership devised in the days of Queen Anne in the early 1700's and has not changed since. Basically with two owners you each own an equal interest (or as you say "joint") in the 64 shares.

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

It has nothing to do with community property. It is a system of ownership devised in the days of Queen Anne in the early 1700's and has not changed since. Basically with two owners you each own an equal interest (or as you say "joint") in the 64 shares.

But it is possible for two or more unrelated owners to have unequal ownership interest, say 40 shares to one and 24 to the other. But if the owners are considered married, then separate shares are not allowed - each 'married' owner shares equally in the full number of shares.

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by fxykty

But it is possible for two or more unrelated owners to have unequal ownership interest, say 40 shares to one and 24 to the other. But if the owners are considered married, then separate shares are not allowed - each 'married' owner shares equally in the full number of shares.

Not true ! ..... From TC website ...............

For registration purposes, the property in a vessel is divided into 64 indivisible shares. Up to five people may register as joint owners of each of these 64 shares. Joint owners are considered as one unit, although all of the names of the joint owners are listed in the Canadian Register of Vessels and the Small Vessel Register.

You can sell a share only when all joint owners act together to sell it.

Upon the death of a joint owner, the shares of the deceased are passed to the surviving joint owners. Please see Transfer on Death of Joint Owner for forms and procedure.