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Old 13-10-2015, 18:52   #91
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Re: Registering a yacht in Australia

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Originally Posted by Rustic Charm View Post
I've not personally had to do this process as mine was already registered. But I understand (someone a little while ago on another CF threat) that if you don't know the builder and many of the other details you can do a Stat Dec instead, with a stat dec proforma and submit that. With vessels under 24m apparently they are not anal about it.
Not sure about the Stat Dec, may be required in some cases - I dunno.

When I bought my current boat, it had been professionally built in Fremantle in the 70's. No HINs back then. The previous sale had been before the HIN era also.

However, I could not buy it without a HIN on the paperwork (sale contract and state rego transfer) so the broker rang the local HIN provider, some money changed hands, the provider turned up and 30 minutes later, the hull has a HIN. Maybe the PO or broker had to do a Stat Dec but whatever happened, it was easy and fuss free.
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Old 13-10-2015, 18:56   #92
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Re: Registering a yacht in Australia

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Originally Posted by haiqu View Post
I could download it right now, but my printer isn't aboard so I'd need to visit my brother's place where he has one.



I do have an email address, AMSA doesn't.

They do actually. Lots of them. When I wanted to remain my vessel they emailed me all the documentation and asked questions back by email.

When I transferred the vessel I had to post them, but that was because they wanted the orgionals.

Contact us - Australian Maritime Safety Authority (AMSA)

Peter Baker is the register of ships and was a great help . peter.baker@amsa.gov.au
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Old 13-10-2015, 19:01   #93
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Re: Registering a yacht in Australia

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Originally Posted by Wotname View Post
I don't understand the problem with the HIN.

Your boat either has one now or not.

If it has one now, it remains with the hull forever. It will be recorded on any transfer of ownership / state registration paperwork and it will be on the HIN plate on the transom as well as one the identical HIN somewhere out of general sight below.

If it doesn't have one (usually because it made before the HIN was mandatory and hasn't being sold after that date), you just go and get one from you local HIN provider. The provider issues you the unique number and affixes the 2 HIN plates to the boat, lodges the HIN paperwork with Big Brother and now the hull has a HIN forever. It doesn't have to agree with any manufacturers allocated code at all.

This is same process for the amateur built boat. The local HIN provider issues a HIN before the can boat be registered or sold. Once a HIN is issued, it's forever.

The general public has no need to access the Big Brother database, if one suspects a fraud, the folk in blue will do the footwork as to whose HIN is who
None of this is relevant to what I was asking. My situation is this:

1. The yacht cabin was rebuilt about 8 years ago and it doesn't have any HIN plates that I can find. This doesn't matter, since I know the HIN from the registration.
2. I need a full ownership history and builder's name (with stat decs from each of them, I believe) in order to legally register my yacht on the Australian General Registry. The HIN records and registration records are the only way I can discover that information.
3. There is no way to get that data from Queensland Transport (or NSW Maritime either).
4. Even if I acquired a full registration history, that isn't acceptable to AMSA since state registration does NOT prove a chain of ownership.

The topic of this thread will tell you when you've missed the point. It isn't about state registration or HIN plates, although those topics do make an interesting side trip.
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Old 13-10-2015, 19:03   #94
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Re: Registering a yacht in Australia

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Originally Posted by Rustic Charm View Post
They do actually. Lots of them. When I wanted to remain my vessel they emailed me all the documentation and asked questions back by email.

When I transferred the vessel I had to post them, but that was because they wanted the orgionals.

Contact us - Australian Maritime Safety Authority (AMSA)

Peter Baker is the register of ships and was a great help . peter.baker@amsa.gov.au
Well I'll be buttered on both sides. Every other time I've visited that site their contact form has been totally blank. They must have fixed it.
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Old 13-10-2015, 19:07   #95
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Re: Registering a yacht in Australia

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Originally Posted by haiqu View Post
None of this is relevant to what I was asking. My situation is this:

1. The yacht cabin was rebuilt about 8 years ago and it doesn't have any HIN plates that I can find. This doesn't matter, since I know the HIN from the registration.
2. I need a full ownership history and builder's name (with stat decs from each of them, I believe) in order to legally register my yacht on the Australian General Registry. The HIN records and registration records are the only way I can discover that information.
3. There is no way to get that data from Queensland Transport (or NSW Maritime either).
4. Even if I acquired a full registration history, that isn't acceptable to AMSA since state registration does NOT prove a chain of ownership.

The topic of this thread will tell you when you've missed the point. It isn't about state registration or HIN plates, although those topics do make an interesting side trip.

I really think your making this too complicated:

Primary documents – ship registration

The documents you need to prove ownership of a ship for registration purposes will vary according to the ship's history.
  • If your ship hasn’t been registered before, either in Australia or overseas, you will need a builder’s certificate and ownership documents relating to any changes of ownership from when the ship was built.
  • If the ship was built and acquired outside Australia and the ownership documents aren’t available, you will need the document by which you acquired the ship as proof of ownership.
  • If the ship was last registered in Australia you will need ownership documents relating to any changes of ownership since it was last registered.
  • If the ship was last registered overseas you will needa document that is evidence of title under the foreign registration law and documents relating to any additional changes of ownership since the ship was last registered.
  • If you have taken all reasonable actions and are still unable to obtain the ownership documentation required, the following will be accepted:
    • A statutory declaration by the applicant giving the full history of the ownership of the ship; or if the full history is not available
    • A statutory declaration by the applicant stating that they are lawfully entitled to the ownership of the ship and the grounds for that belief; and evidence that 30 days prior to the application being made, that a notice of intention to apply for registration was published in the Gazette. See below for more information.
Statutory declarations

If you are unable to provide documentation that shows the full ownership history of the ship, you must provide a statutory declaration, made by a person acquainted with the facts of the case, setting out details of the ships ownership. Please also provide any other supporting documentation.
If you are not able to provide details of the full ownership history , you will need to submit a statutory declaration that states:
  • to the best of your knowledge the person/s claiming ownership are lawfully entitled to ownership of the ship
  • explain the basis of the belief that the owner/s arelawfully entitled to ownership
  • why the required documents cannot be obtained
  • publish a notice in the Commonwealth of Australia Gazette and send a copy of the published notice to the Registrar of Ships.
To allow time for possible appeals to the declaration of ownership, a registration cannot be processed until 30 days from the date of publication of the Gazette notice.
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Old 13-10-2015, 19:36   #96
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Re: Registering a yacht in Australia

Quote:
Originally Posted by haiqu View Post
None of this is relevant to what I was asking. My situation is this:

1. The yacht cabin was rebuilt about 8 years ago and it doesn't have any HIN plates that I can find. This doesn't matter, since I know the HIN from the registration.

Well you may have a minor problem here. The HIN plates must be attached to the hull, not the cabin. One exterior (usually the transom) and one interior (hidden). It is an offence to remove them...

2. I need a full ownership history and builder's name (with stat decs from each of them, I believe) in order to legally register my yacht on the Australian General Registry. The HIN records and registration records are the only way I can discover that information.

Not quite , You only need the Stat Dec for any "missing" records. For instance, if you had copies all the previous transfer documents (contracts etc) showing a continuos paper trail of ownership back to the original builder's sale to the first owner, you should be sweet.

However if I understand your problem correctly, you don't have such a paperwork trail. More on that below.


3. There is no way to get that data from Queensland Transport (or NSW Maritime either).

4. Even if I acquired a full registration history, that isn't acceptable to AMSA since state registration does NOT prove a chain of ownership.

No but copies of signed, witnessed sales contract and receipts do along a a certification that they are true copies or a Stat Dec to that effect - again more below.

The topic of this thread will tell you when you've missed the point. It isn't about state registration or HIN plates, although those topics do make an interesting side trip.
I thought the original issue had been resolved for you except the HIN bit.
So if I understand correctly you have a valid HIN but not enough paperwork to prove ownership.

If so, join the long queue of others (including me) who have been in the small boat Most of us got our registration; for me, it was tedious but not difficult. A long run of low hurdles and everyone of them had to be jumped (in order) but none of them were high. No shortcuts and no fudging the figures but follow the trail and the magic paper turns up. Wasn't that expensive (except the big once off fee) IIRC.

But AMSA understands

It was a while ago now but I suspect the procedure is essentially the same. As others have posted, AMSA is surprisingly friendly for a guv'mit mob.

I explained the situation (no ownership trail, no written records, no way of tracing previous owners, unknown builder and so on). They said, "happens all the time mate; this what you do".

Back then it was something like this.
Stat Dec declaring that after considerable effort, previous owners could not be identified. Include was the actions taken to find out. Builder unknown. Provided what evidence was available like last state regos and last sales contract etc.

Then place a public notice in the main state newspaper stating my intention to put boat on the shipping register and asking for any previous owners to come forward or anyone else who has a financial interest in the boat. Wait 30 days for an responses.

Have a certified copy of the published public notice.

Place a similar notice in Australian Government Gazette, wait another 30 days

Collect everything and post to AMSA along with money.

Now this might not be current but as said before, there will be a process and AMSA is very likely to tell you exactly how it is done now - if you tell them the background and ask nicely.
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Old 13-10-2015, 19:40   #97
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Re: Registering a yacht in Australia

I see from what RC just posted, the procedure is still essentially the same as it was for me.

Get your paperwork skates on...
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Old 13-10-2015, 20:08   #98
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Re: Registering a yacht in Australia

Crikey! When we bought our boat it was on the register already. The only thing missing was the current certificate, which either I or the previous owner had misplaced. I remember feeling a bit cranky that I had to first order and pay for a replacement of the old certificate (that I would never see as AMSA retain it) before they'd issue it in my name, but in retrospect , reading all this, I got off lightly.


Sent from my iPhone so apologies for weird autocorrect typos.
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Old 30-11-2015, 03:00   #99
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Re: Registering a yacht in Australia

I'm moving back to Aussie soon and may or may not import my boat but regardless I want to register it in Aussie and retire my Swedish flag

I'm currently filling in the stat dec for builders certificate and I'm trying to get my head around the tonnage length measurement they require.

In plain speak for yachts, is it the LWL or perhaps 96% of the LWL that they want?

o. The tonnage length of a ship is either
A length equal to 96 per cent of the total length of the ship measured on a waterline that is at a distance, from the top of the keel, equal to 85 per cent of the least moulded depth of the ship; or
If the length of the ship measured from the foreside of the stem to the axis of the rudder stock on that waterline is greater than the length ascertained in accordance with paragraph (a) – that greater length.


Hopefully the only info I am missing is "Moulded depth of amidships (m)" which I can get when my boat is hauled out in the next week.
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Old 30-11-2015, 04:24   #100
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Re: Registering a yacht in Australia

I think you will find that some of the questions are for larger commercial vessels and they may be skipped. I know years ago there were some they told me not to worry about.

Ask them.
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Old 30-11-2015, 04:43   #101
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Re: Registering a yacht in Australia

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Originally Posted by hoppy View Post
I'm moving back to Aussie soon and may or may not import my boat but regardless I want to register it in Aussie and retire my Swedish flag

I'm currently filling in the stat dec for builders certificate and I'm trying to get my head around the tonnage length measurement they require.

In plain speak for yachts, is it the LWL or perhaps 96% of the LWL that they want?

o. The tonnage length of a ship is either
A length equal to 96 per cent of the total length of the ship measured on a waterline that is at a distance, from the top of the keel, equal to 85 per cent of the least moulded depth of the ship; or
If the length of the ship measured from the foreside of the stem to the axis of the rudder stock on that waterline is greater than the length ascertained in accordance with paragraph (a) – that greater length.


Hopefully the only info I am missing is "Moulded depth of amidships (m)" which I can get when my boat is hauled out in the next week.
Hey hoppy. Mine is already registered so I haven't had to do it. But I remember enquiring about some of these things for someone else last year and I vaguely remember an affidavit you can submit which basically means you don't have to go to such extremes of answering all those questions. I can follow it up with amsa tomorrow when I'm in the office if it would assist you.
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Old 30-11-2015, 05:42   #102
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Re: Registering a yacht in Australia

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Originally Posted by Rustic Charm View Post
Hey hoppy. Mine is already registered so I haven't had to do it. But I remember enquiring about some of these things for someone else last year and I vaguely remember an affidavit you can submit which basically means you don't have to go to such extremes of answering all those questions. I can follow it up with amsa tomorrow when I'm in the office if it would assist you.
That would be fantastic, thanks. I was going to email them but the AMSA contact page just shows a blank section under the "email" heading 😳

It would be nice if AMSA did not try to cover small yachts and container ships with the same paperwork.

I wonder what deregistration is like? I just now walked into the Swedish Cruising Club office with my registration saying I will export my boat and need to deregister. I just gave them my certificate and phone number and they will call when it's done. Will cost something like $50 and no paperwork to fill


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Old 30-11-2015, 05:47   #103
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Re: Registering a yacht in Australia

Btw is the Aussie MMSI connected to the radio licence holder or the boat?

I don't have an Aussie licence yet and are not sure if I can arrange an exam time whilst I'm in Melbourne over Xmas/nye. Might have to get my father to apply for it.




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Old 30-11-2015, 06:04   #104
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Re: Registering a yacht in Australia

De rego is simple in Aus as well. The mmsi is for the yachts fixed electronics but your old mmsi should still work till you get around to changing it. Amsa are excellent with emails or phone queries.

sro@amsa.gov.au
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Old 30-11-2015, 12:11   #105
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Re: Registering a yacht in Australia

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Originally Posted by Wanderlust View Post
I think you will find that some of the questions are for larger commercial vessels and they may be skipped. I know years ago there were some they told me not to worry about.

Ask them.
+2

We found AMSA remarkably relaxed and helpful about small vessels.

Ask them...

Wishing you good health and fair winds.
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