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Old 12-10-2015, 20:55   #76
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Re: Registering a yacht in Australia

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Originally Posted by Rustic Charm View Post
It's not that AMSA registration is acceptable in lieu of state rego in the states. It's actually about giving 'visitors' from over seas a grace time in which to visit, or live in that state. Most visiting boats don't have AMSA registration, they are boats visiting from interstate, and therefore the states give those people a grace time of around 3 months to visit or to move permamently. If it's an Australian recreational vessel, whether you have AMSA registration is irrelevant. You need 'state' registration from the day you enter into the states waters. (with the exception of NT because they don't have registration).
Not true, Ashiki never had registration from any state from the day our boat was splashed (in WA) until almost 2 years later, here in NSW. We pulled that off because we had AMSA rego, completely legal, as we were questioned by WA Dept transport vessel out in an anchorage. (conversation started as: "I don't see any rego numbers on your hull..". AMSA rego and the fact we were leaving the state satisfied them). Actually, took us 9 months to leave, its a big state..
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Old 12-10-2015, 21:02   #77
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Re: Registering a yacht in Australia

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Not true, Ashiki never had registration from any state from the day our boat was splashed (in WA) until almost 2 years later, here in NSW. We pulled that off because we had AMSA rego, completely legal, as we were questioned by WA Dept transport vessel out in an anchorage. (conversation started as: "I don't see any rego numbers on your hull..". AMSA rego and the fact we were leaving the state satisfied them). Actually, took us 9 months to leave, its a big state..

What bit are you saying, 'not true' too?

The fact that you got away without registration in WA or NSW does not mean the state legislation permits that , it just means you got away with it. But, happy to have that discussion and look at the legislation.

If you were leaving the state, then that would pretty much satisfy any local authority.

I might also add that in WA, if you are a 'foreign pleasure' vessel, then if you remain in the state beyond 30 days, you require to get temporary 'foreign pleasure vessel' registration. It's not expensive, but it's something the other states don't require.
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Old 13-10-2015, 03:29   #78
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Re: Registering a yacht in Australia

Rustic, since you know the system pretty well, are you aware of any website where a HIN can be looked up to determine the manufacturer? Eventually I'll need that for the paperwork and I don't see any website that lists assigned manufacturer codes.

This is another of those quirky areas, since they're generally assigned by a HIN agent and some of those are now out of business after 30 odd years. The state records seem inaccessible and there's no main central database that I'm aware of. The 17-digit format also doesn't match what it's "supposed to" look like according to websites I've searched so far.

I tried the Queensland Maritime Museum but they were unable to assist.
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Old 13-10-2015, 03:42   #79
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Re: Registering a yacht in Australia

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Rustic, since you know the system pretty well, are you aware of any website where a HIN can be looked up to determine the manufacturer? Eventually I'll need that for the paperwork and I don't see any website that lists assigned manufacturer codes.

This is another of those quirky areas, since they're generally assigned by a HIN agent and some of those are now out of business after 30 odd years. The state records seem inaccessible and there's no main central database that I'm aware of. The 17-digit format also doesn't match what it's "supposed to" look like according to websites I've searched so far.

I tried the Queensland Maritime Museum but they were unable to assist.
To my knowledge there is no public accessibility to HIN's. From my policing days I suspect it would be frought with the possibility of fraud. But, adding new HIN's shouldn't be hard. We used to hand them out for free to anyone wanting to register a new trailer. If people didn't know the manafacturer then they were encouraged to put down 'home made'.

Is this information your seeking for shipping registration? The AMSA listing?
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Old 13-10-2015, 05:10   #80
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Re: Registering a yacht in Australia

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Originally Posted by Rustic Charm View Post
What bit are you saying, 'not true' too?

The fact that you got away without registration in WA or NSW does not mean the state legislation permits that , it just means you got away with it. But, happy to have that discussion and look at the legislation.

If you were leaving the state, then that would pretty much satisfy any local authority.

I might also add that in WA, if you are a 'foreign pleasure' vessel, then if you remain in the state beyond 30 days, you require to get temporary 'foreign pleasure vessel' registration. It's not expensive, but it's something the other states don't require.
The bit here:

"If it's an Australian recreational vessel, whether you have AMSA registration is irrelevant. You need 'state' registration from the day you enter into the states waters. (with the exception of NT because they don't have registration)."

I checked with Transport over the phone before launching the boat, no need for state rego if planning to leave within 3 months. A boat built in WA, with "Fremantle" on the stern. Not a case of "getting away with it" (apart from the longer than 3 month bit). If I had no rego at all, no AMSA, no state, it would be a different story. I doubt they would let me get away with that. There would be a prosecution of some sort.
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Old 13-10-2015, 05:29   #81
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Re: Registering a yacht in Australia

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Originally Posted by Capt Rottnest View Post
The bit here:

"If it's an Australian recreational vessel, whether you have AMSA registration is irrelevant. You need 'state' registration from the day you enter into the states waters. (with the exception of NT because they don't have registration)."

I checked with Transport over the phone before launching the boat, no need for state rego if planning to leave within 3 months. A boat built in WA, with "Fremantle" on the stern. Not a case of "getting away with it" (apart from the longer than 3 month bit). If I had no rego at all, no AMSA, no state, it would be a different story. I doubt they would let me get away with that. There would be a prosecution of some sort.
Ok, this is CF, we have been discussing the lawful, legislative requirements. Someone giving you there personal exemption for three months is fine, but there is no legal exemption to not be registered in WA. Well, not that I can find. It may be like in Tasmania where no one is actively policing registrations.

I don't quite get your Fremantle statement?
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Old 13-10-2015, 18:20   #82
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Re: Registering a yacht in Australia

Fremantle is the home port painted on the transom.
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Old 13-10-2015, 18:25   #83
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Re: Registering a yacht in Australia

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Fremantle is the home port painted on the transom.
Yes, thanks Haiqu I understand a name on the stern is the home port.
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Old 13-10-2015, 18:26   #84
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Re: Registering a yacht in Australia

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Originally Posted by Rustic Charm View Post
To my knowledge there is no public accessibility to HIN's. From my policing days I suspect it would be frought with the possibility of fraud. But, adding new HIN's shouldn't be hard. We used to hand them out for free to anyone wanting to register a new trailer. If people didn't know the manafacturer then they were encouraged to put down 'home made'.

Is this information your seeking for shipping registration? The AMSA listing?
HIN fraud wouldn't be difficult. I can buy the plates custom printed with any logo I want for $20 a pair, and if the public can't verify them anyone could make up a number. I suspect that's one of the reasons we now need a Build Plate as well.

Yes, it's for my eventual entry onto the General Register with AMSA, if I decide to go that way.
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Old 13-10-2015, 18:38   #85
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Re: Registering a yacht in Australia

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HIN fraud wouldn't be difficult. I can buy the plates custom printed with any logo I want for $20 a pair, and if the public can't verify them anyone could make up a number. I suspect that's one of the reasons we now need a Build Plate as well.

Yes, it's for my eventual entry onto the General Register with AMSA, if I decide to go that way.

I've not personally had to do this process as mine was already registered. But I understand (someone a little while ago on another CF threat) that if you don't know the builder and many of the other details you can do a Stat Dec instead, with a stat dec proforma and submit that. With vessels under 24m apparently they are not anal about it.
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Old 13-10-2015, 18:42   #86
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Re: Registering a yacht in Australia

Yeah, someone mentioned that earlier on this thread. I couldn't get that sort of data from AMSA, they don't have an email address and insist on doing everything by mail. Slows things down a bit when you live aboard.
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Old 13-10-2015, 18:44   #87
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Re: Registering a yacht in Australia

Quote:
Originally Posted by haiqu View Post
Rustic, since you know the system pretty well, are you aware of any website where a HIN can be looked up to determine the manufacturer? Eventually I'll need that for the paperwork and I don't see any website that lists assigned manufacturer codes.

This is another of those quirky areas, since they're generally assigned by a HIN agent and some of those are now out of business after 30 odd years. The state records seem inaccessible and there's no main central database that I'm aware of. The 17-digit format also doesn't match what it's "supposed to" look like according to websites I've searched so far.

I tried the Queensland Maritime Museum but they were unable to assist.
I don't understand the problem with the HIN.

Your boat either has one now or not.

If it has one now, it remains with the hull forever. It will be recorded on any transfer of ownership / state registration paperwork and it will be on the HIN plate on the transom as well as one the identical HIN somewhere out of general sight below.

If it doesn't have one (usually because it made before the HIN was mandatory and hasn't being sold after that date), you just go and get one from you local HIN provider. The provider issues you the unique number and affixes the 2 HIN plates to the boat, lodges the HIN paperwork with Big Brother and now the hull has a HIN forever. It doesn't have to agree with any manufacturers allocated code at all.

This is same process for the amateur built boat. The local HIN provider issues a HIN before the can boat be registered or sold. Once a HIN is issued, it's forever.

The general public has no need to access the Big Brother database, if one suspects a fraud, the folk in blue will do the footwork as to whose HIN is who
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Old 13-10-2015, 18:47   #88
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Re: Registering a yacht in Australia

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Yeah, someone mentioned that earlier on this thread. I couldn't get that sort of data from AMSA, they don't have an email address and insist on doing everything by mail. Slows things down a bit when you live aboard.
You will find the stat dec proforma half way down the pages. I guess in your circumstances you will need to go to a library or something to down load it.

https://www.amsa.gov.au/vessels/ship...orms/index.asp

If you won't have an email address and don't like snail mail. That sort of only leaves phone and/or in person. And it's pretty hard to submit a document via the phone
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Old 13-10-2015, 18:49   #89
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Re: Registering a yacht in Australia

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I don't understand the problem with the HIN.

Your boat either has one now or not.

If it has one now, it remains with the hull forever. It will be recorded on any transfer of ownership / state registration paperwork and it will be on the HIN plate on the transom as well as one the identical HIN somewhere out of general sight below.

If it doesn't have one (usually because it made before the HIN was mandatory and hasn't being sold after that date), you just go and get one from you local HIN provider. The provider issues you the unique number and affixes the 2 HIN plates to the boat, lodges the HIN paperwork with Big Brother and now the hull has a HIN forever. It doesn't have to agree with any manufacturers allocated code at all.

This is same process for the amateur built boat. The local HIN provider issues a HIN before the can boat be registered or sold. Once a HIN is issued, it's forever.

The general public has no need to access the Big Brother database, if one suspects a fraud, the folk in blue will do the footwork as to whose HIN is who
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Old 13-10-2015, 18:51   #90
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Re: Registering a yacht in Australia

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Originally Posted by Rustic Charm View Post
You will find the stat dec proforma half way down the pages. I guess in your circumstances you will need to go to a library or something to down load it.

https://www.amsa.gov.au/vessels/ship...orms/index.asp
I could download it right now, but my printer isn't aboard so I'd need to visit my brother's place where he has one.

Quote:
If you won't have an email address and don't like snail mail. That sort of only leaves phone and/or in person. And it's pretty hard to submit a document via the phone
I do have an email address, AMSA doesn't.
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