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Old 02-10-2008, 07:19   #1
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reefed jib and the Pardeys

I am reading one of the Pardey books right now (to clarify since I just mentioned reading the diesel book in another thread- I keep a book in all the places I go so I can always read and don't need to tote books around... The Pardeys are somewhere I like to read but can't "study"... you can guess where.)

Let me start over.

I am reading one of the Pardey books right now and they are talking about how a big genoa is not a cruising sail. But then they talk about how they use thier smaller jib and never need to use thier stormsail because they just reef the jib and how good it works... Why not just have more reef points in a genoa?

Secondly, how do you reef a jib? Same as the main but instead of going around the boom just bunch the sail along the foot?
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Old 02-10-2008, 07:32   #2
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I read the same book. And, I've been wondering about that same thing too; for quite a while now.

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Old 02-10-2008, 07:33   #3
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Correct on reefing the jib. It's easy to pull down a big headsail if you don't wait too long.......that's the secret to everything sailing....don't wait too long
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Old 02-10-2008, 07:43   #4
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So I guess if you just pull the sail down to the foot a reefed jib retains its foot length.

In the book I am reading the argument against the genoa is its deck sweeping and chaffing properties. You would still have these problems with a reefed 150% yes?
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Old 02-10-2008, 07:51   #5
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Two things come to mind, weight of cloth and draft designed into the sail. A genoa designed for lighter airs will be made with a lighter weight cloth that will permanently stretch and distort its shape if used in too high of a wind. Depth of draft designed into the sail determines how powerfull the sail is versus how high it can point.

I sailed on a Cal 34 for years that had a 150 genoa and a 130 that reefed to a 110. It seemed to be a very reasonable setup. A light air big genoa, then as the wind comes up go down to the 130, then eventually reef it to the 110.

On the other hand, with roller furling people are doing things like what came to me on my boat, which is a 150 made with a heavy cloth. This sail is too heavy to support its weight in light airs, so its shape suffers until the wind builds a little. It is heavy enough cloth to be used in 25 knots of wind, but by that time it is rolled up enough that the draft is too deep and too far forward to go upwind well. So IMO modern advances to make sail handling easier, can really hurt performance. How this relates to your question is you could put multiple reefs in a big sail, but it would be a poor compromise sail for any conditions.

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Old 02-10-2008, 08:02   #6
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So I guess if you just pull the sail down to the foot a reefed jib retains its foot length.

In the book I am reading the argument against the genoa is its deck sweeping and chaffing properties. You would still have these problems with a reefed 150% yes?
150 genoas are not all necessarily deck sweepers. Racers like them for more sail area and the end plate effect as the sail foot seals on the deck.

The foot length gets shorter by the amount that the sail gets narrower as you go up the sail. This also causes problems when tacking. You would have a bundle of relatively loose cloth to get from one side of the boat to the other.

The reef does not have to be parallel to the foot, so the leech reef point can be higher than the luff reef point to raise the clew. The Cal 34 had this on its reefable sail, not that the 130 was a deck sweeper to begin with. This feature also reduces how much you have to adjust the jib car position when you reef.

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Old 02-10-2008, 08:02   #7
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A friend of mine sails with a reefable genoa and jib.

With either we lower the halyard and the retack and move the sheets. He uses a shackle for the sheets. Once that is down you roll up the excess and tie it up. We have to be a tad more careful about flogging on a tack as the bunt will work itself free.

Which sail we leave with depends on which direction the conditions might be heading. Blowing good but expected to lessen we head off with a reefed genoa. Blowing good but expected to increase we head off with a jib with the idea of reefing if we need to.
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Old 02-10-2008, 08:04   #8
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I installed a reef on a headsail that brought it down from 130 to about 90 or maybe 80 and greatly reduced my need for a storm sail. (It's possible my sail might have even been smaller than a 130)

The reef worked much like a mainsail reef except there was no boom. Basically, it consisted mostly of a large grommet on the luff and leach. First the halyard was slackened, then bring down and clip the new grommet on the luff down as the new tack, then refasten the jib sheets to the new clew and tighten the halyard. The loose fabric at the bottom can be rolled up and tied off in much the same fashion as the main. The use of a carabiner with both sheets tied to it, made this easy. I also did not have to unclip the old tack to fasten the new one. (Actually, I just gave it a bunch of rolls and a clipped the old a and new clew) This certainly wasn't as convenient as pulling a roller reefing line, but it was much easier than changing sails and reduced the sail inventory I needed to carry on a small boat without the need of an expensive roller reefing refit. I also felt a sail reefed in this fashion provided much better sail shape than roller reefing.

I did not read the comments by the Pardy's but can understand their point. I think if you reefed a 150 down to anywhere close to storm sail size, all the reefed fabric at the foot would probably get in the way, get caught on things when tacking and the weight and bulk might adversely affect sail shape.
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Old 02-10-2008, 08:05   #9
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The Pardeys slab reef jibs. They pull it down to new tack point and move the sheet up the leech to a new clew. Cheap and easy but the leech will stretch more above the new clew, not good for the sail. I much prefer flying the correct jib size jib rather then this method or roller reefing the jib to reduce sail area.

An inner forestay is a nice way to move sail are in and down as the breeze goes up.
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Old 03-10-2008, 10:18   #10
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they are talking about how a big genoa is not a cruising sail...
Pardeys fly a yankee rather than a genny, with a staysail under… yankee having a much higher clew…
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Old 03-10-2008, 12:03   #11
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You many you just don't pull on that ropey thing and it goes around that pole with the spool!


(really sorry for that, I just couldn't resist! )
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Old 03-10-2008, 13:11   #12
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I'm thinking of ditching the furler and going back to hank on sails.
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Old 03-10-2008, 13:15   #13
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Feel free to ship me your furling setup. But hurry, I leave for Mexico in 2.5 weeks...


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Old 03-10-2008, 14:37   #14
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perforce

The boat came with a roller-furling setup up, in pretty rough shape with corrosion and age, as well as some amazingly old hank-ons. And it lasted about 4 months before giving up, and I fell back on the hank-ons.

I haven't had the money to more than replace the 110 hank-on jib. Well, not quite true, other items have been of greater priority than restoring the roller-furler.

Which was going to be my point... I'd really like roller-reefing ability, but it's not my highest priority. In fact, it doesn't rank over getting the galley pump fixed (which is broken *again*... grrr.)
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Old 03-10-2008, 15:16   #15
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I have a cutter, with a staysail and a yankee. Douse the tankee, and the staysail has a boom with three reef points. Badda bing, badda boom. Pardon the pun, especially to the Pardeys
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