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Old 11-04-2019, 09:55   #1
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Recommendations needed for an Aussie insurance company - Aust Pantaenius useless

We are Aussie registered, but currently sailing in Europe. Pantaenius Hamburg with whom we have been insured for over a decade have let us know they no longer have a license to insure Australian registered boats and they directed us to their Australian branch.

I assumed policy conditions would be similar and was gobsmacked last week when reading the fine print. The most glaring problem was that:
“The vessel is moored in a marina berth/at a jetty”.

I gave them a call and they brushed this off saying they really only meant when the boat was unattended, but I can imagine the difficulty fighting that if something occurred while at anchor! They refused to modify the wording. This renders the policy useless.

Does anyone have any recommendations for either a broker or marine insurance company in Australia?
Any help would be appreciated.

SWL
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Old 11-04-2019, 16:07   #2
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re: Recommendations needed for an Aussie insurance company - Aust Pantaenius useless

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Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass View Post
Does anyone have any recommendations for either a broker or marine insurance company in Australia?
Any help would be appreciated.
E-mail sent.
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Old 11-04-2019, 21:49   #3
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re: Recommendations needed for an Aussie insurance company - Aust Pantaenius useless

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E-mail sent.
Many thanks, Alan.
I am just following up on your suggestion.

I should have read the fine print in Pantaenius Australia’s policy earlier . The German branch has been excellent for over a decade, but Australia’s policy does not mirror our current one and it imposes all sorts of restrictions we don’t currently have, all at a significantly higher cost.

SWL
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Old 11-04-2019, 23:00   #4
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re: Recommendations needed for an Aussie insurance company - Aust Pantaenius useless

This is our first boat and policy, so I'm far from an expert, but I did a lot of research before going with Pantaenius EU (Italy). I was baffled by great AND crap reviews of the company, but came to realize (I think, I hope) that Pantaenius EU is more or less one company, the good one, and Pantaenius in other countries (the bad reviews were coming out of the US in my case of research) were basically franchises which varied a whole lot, and in general, were much worse. Just FYI.
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Old 11-04-2019, 23:34   #5
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re: Recommendations needed for an Aussie insurance company - Aust Pantaenius useless

We have used Greg Fullerton at Anchorage Marine in North Sydney for many years.
He is a marine insurance broker, straight talker, says it like it is.
Things have become pretty feral round here in the boat insurance market, but we usually find a way to work around it.
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Old 12-04-2019, 04:11   #6
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re: Recommendations needed for an Aussie insurance company - Aust Pantaenius useless

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This is our first boat and policy, so I'm far from an expert, but I did a lot of research before going with Pantaenius EU (Italy). I was baffled by great AND crap reviews of the company, but came to realize (I think, I hope) that Pantaenius EU is more or less one company, the good one, and Pantaenius in other countries (the bad reviews were coming out of the US in my case of research) were basically franchises which varied a whole lot, and in general, were much worse. Just FYI.
Yes, I think that may be correct.

We insured with Pantaenius Germany 12 years ago, as the previous owner of a boat we bought in Europe had been insured with them. It was a seamless transition with no survey report or rigging inspections needed. We only had one claim with them and that was in 2009 after a nearby lightning strike. They handled the claim efficiently without too many delays and our premium did not escalate the following year, so we have been loyal customers since.

I was stunned to find how different the Australian Pantaenius policy was.
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Old 12-04-2019, 04:32   #7
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re: Recommendations needed for an Aussie insurance company - Aust Pantaenius useless

Perhaps you should register the boat in a country of convenience, not Oz?
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Old 12-04-2019, 04:47   #8
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re: Recommendations needed for an Aussie insurance company - Aust Pantaenius useless

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Originally Posted by olaf hart View Post
Perhaps you should register the boat in a country of convenience, not Oz?
The UK is open for business, see recent thread.

Or how about approaching Pantaenius UK if you are staying in Europe for a while. We are insured with them and whilst I have never had to claim they have always been very straight forward to deal with. Price hasn't changed much in 10 years either which is nice, so I stay with them. Whilst we have Brest to Elbe extending the area covered isn't a problem.

https://www.pantaenius.com/uk-en/

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Old 12-04-2019, 05:13   #9
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re: Recommendations needed for an Aussie insurance company - Aust Pantaenius useless

You could try Topsail, we found them to be very competitive.
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Old 12-04-2019, 07:06   #10
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re: Recommendations needed for an Aussie insurance company - Aust Pantaenius useless

Try Y Yacht. A french company that has a good presence in the UK.

Pretty much everyone I've spoken to with Pants. insurance from Y Yacht to be half the price, and offer good coverage. Seem to be more flexible than Pants too.

Quotation | Y Yacht Insurance

One thing you will find, at least with UK insurers, is that will not insure you to single-hand over 18 hours, and many will not offer hull insurance outside of the EU, especially if the boat is worth less than £100,000-£150,000
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Old 12-04-2019, 07:40   #11
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re: Recommendations needed for an Aussie insurance company - Aust Pantaenius useless

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Originally Posted by mikedefieslife View Post
Try Y Yacht. A french company that has a good presence in the UK.

Pretty much everyone I've spoken to with Pants. insurance from Y Yacht to be half the price, and offer good coverage. Seem to be more flexible than Pants too........

0
+1

Totally satisfied with Y Yacht. Little small print and we managed to get a waiver on rig replacement based on provider and year of installation.

Good luck
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Old 12-04-2019, 09:28   #12
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re: Recommendations needed for an Aussie insurance company - Aust Pantaenius useless

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Originally Posted by Pete7 View Post
The UK is open for business, see recent thread.

Or how about approaching Pantaenius UK if you are staying in Europe for a while. We are insured with them and whilst I have never had to claim they have always been very straight forward to deal with. Price hasn't changed much in 10 years either which is nice, so I stay with them. Whilst we have Brest to Elbe extending the area covered isn't a problem.

https://www.pantaenius.com/uk-en/

Pete
Hi Pete
We would far prefer to use a locally based insurance company (best option would simply be to stay with our current insurer, Pantaenius Germany), but the problem is that no one here currently seems to have a license to insure Aussie registered vessels.

Even a broker I contacted had no joy finding anyone.
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Old 12-04-2019, 09:31   #13
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re: Recommendations needed for an Aussie insurance company - Aust Pantaenius useless

Quote:
Originally Posted by olaf hart View Post
We have used Greg Fullerton at Anchorage Marine in North Sydney for many years.
He is a marine insurance broker, straight talker, says it like it is.
Things have become pretty feral round here in the boat insurance market, but we usually find a way to work around it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat View Post
You could try Topsail, we found them to be very competitive.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikedefieslife View Post
Try Y Yacht. A french company that has a good presence in the UK.

Pretty much everyone I've spoken to with Pants. insurance from Y Yacht to be half the price, and offer good coverage. Seem to be more flexible than Pants too.

Quotation | Y Yacht Insurance

One thing you will find, at least with UK insurers, is that will not insure you to single-hand over 18 hours, and many will not offer hull insurance outside of the EU, especially if the boat is worth less than £100,000-£150,000
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eleuthera 2014 View Post
+1

Totally satisfied with Y Yacht. Little small print and we managed to get a waiver on rig replacement based on provider and year of installation.

Good luck
Thanks everyone .

This gives me a fair bit to go on. I will approach them on Monday.

SWL
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Old 12-04-2019, 13:20   #14
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re: Recommendations needed for an Aussie insurance company - Aust Pantaenius useless

I had same problem trying to get a boat in transit insured. From what I have learnt the hard way (hindsight is a wonderful thing) go through an insurance broker!!!



Apparently the brokers insurance covers you if the policy (insurance company turns out to be crap) and they will fight for your rights.



I could only find one other company in Australia that took on vessels overseas however went on a recommendation to use who we ended up with. This recommendation came from overseas whose experience would have been with branches outside Australia.



We have always used brokers for all other insurance, I did not realise at the time of taking out our policy that brokers also handled marine insurance. There is a good guy up in QLD if you have no luck with the other leads you have been given, happy to pass his name on if you need it.


I will write a book when this is over ..... dodge a bullet find a good a broker!!!


There is another guy in South Australia who found himself in same position as you, he was also told he had to now insure his boat through Australian branch. When he saw the Australian policy he hit the roof and apparently they were made to re write the policy to match his original German one.



I have been told by others there is a saying regarding insurance;


" you are only insured until you need to make a claim "



good luck and safe sailing
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Old 12-04-2019, 14:11   #15
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re: Recommendations needed for an Aussie insurance company - Aust Pantaenius useless

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There is a good guy up in QLD if you have no luck with the other leads you have been given, happy to pass his name on if you need it.
Thanks. Could you please let me know his details?

Quote:
Originally Posted by No Boat View Post
There is another guy in South Australia who found himself in same position as you, he was also told he had to now insure his boat through Australian branch. When he saw the Australian policy he hit the roof and apparently they were made to re write the policy to match his original German one.
The person I spoke to at Pantaenius Australia said that nothing in the policy could be modified.

He did not inspire confidence. When questioned about several of the conditions, it was a case of “although that’s what is written, it is not what we really mean”.
And also “the co-ordinates of the area covered override the description of the area covered”. Apparently Spain and Portugal are considered part of Northern Europe.
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