Rebel Heart's Contribution to the Cruising Community

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

I think an analysis of RH and the assumptions built into ocean cruising may well be a very useful contribution to the long distance cruising community.

Dave

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

Now I'm scared


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[atoll]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

I think an analysis of RH and the assumptions built into ocean cruising may well be a very useful contribution to the long distance cruising community.

Dave


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definitly,but without trolls muddying the water.


here is a recent thread regarding children,that has good points regarding those setting out on a cruising life with children
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...on-124018.html

[Delfin]

Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate

Delfin,

You may be right, but I have to call them as I see them, and I've found Mr. Weber's posts to all be slanted towards dirt digging. I may be wrong. Time will tell.

Ann

Fair enough, and I understand the sensitivity you and others would have over this event. I didn't interact much with RH and really am only responding at all because there are lessons to be learned. When I backed out of my slip last year with a 50 amp power cord attached, pulling the whole pedestal into the water and potentially threatening the life of a diver nearby there were lessons to be learned as well, and I couldn't possibly pretend otherwise. I was a careless idiot and lucked out and had to seriously reconsider if I was the competent skipper I thought I was. As I said, lessons to be learned.

Presumably there are many people reading these posts who want to understand what cruising is about, perhaps even trying to coax a reluctant spouse into making the move. Pretending that experienced cruisers on this forum would have done things just as the Kaufman's did gives altogether the wrong impression, I think. Those folks would be impressed with how supportive the cruising fraternity is, but without a little honesty about what might have been done differently could get the impression that you can do everything right but still have to call the navy to save you and lose your home in the process.

The only other comment I'll make is that the way even modestly questioning voices have been insulted, reported to the moderators, or accused of ill faith is quite disturbing. If Weber is a journalist looking for a story, that is the story, not the unfortunate sequence of events that led up to a near disaster. And it wouldn't be a very complimentary story for this forum, IMHO.

[SaltyMonkey]

Originally Posted by Greenhand

The thread was originally about Rebel Heart's contribution to the growth of cruising over the last 30 years.

Exactly, and it has drifted into the Bay of Fun-kdy

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by Stu Jackson

Ken, IIRC the Pardey's didn't have an engine at all, and no hot water either. I'm not to sure that this in any way contributed to the issues. Could you explain what you mean by "mind boggling?"

The definition of Mind boggling to me: I truly can't understand why any person containing even an once of common sense would do such a thing.

When planning to set off with two small children on a 3000 mile voyage
... why in God's name would they knowingly cut their fuel capacity in half... Why would a reasonable mother & father who claim to be sooo concerned about their kids.... choose to be less safe? I got the original date of the fuel tank reduction wrong, it took place a little over six months ago, but never the less.... he had more than six months to make a proper repair! Here's the link:
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...on-105262.html

The Kaufmans are not the Pardeys.... I don't remember the Pardeys blogging about washing crappy diapers in the galley sink with cold water like the Kaufmans did. Salmonella is spread feces to mouth and can last on surfaces for months. Not the same thing at all. 'Nuff said.

[Delfin]

Originally Posted by atoll

as far as i know it is a forum rule when quoting to include a link,also to put it in inverted commas.

apart from that if you check his profile page you will see a pattern of spurious quotes meant to inflame,provoke argument,contravening the be nice rule.

All I saw on his profile page was this:
"
I've got a couple of trans-pacs and a voyage from Hawaii to Alaska under my keel, as well as more than a decade living aboard. along with a few Mexico trips. More recently my wife and I have been taking our teenage kids on charter bareboat adventures."

Was there something else?

[Boatguy30]

Th Pardeys didn't have kids. I can only assume he they had children after their first voyage, their experiences would have shown them cruising with young children with a couple crew is very challenging. Even some friends with a cat crossing the pacific in 2005 with a 5 and 8 y/o told us the wife would go to sleep with the kids, the husband would stay up as long as he could, then fingers crossed the rest of the night until the kids woke everyone up?

sound safe?

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by atoll

definitly,but without trolls muddying the water.





here is a recent thread regarding children,that has good points regarding those setting out on a cruising life with children

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...on-124018.html

Actually atoll, I don't think the issue is specifically children, I don't see the issue in relation to children.

What I see, is a conflict between a dream. One that many of us have in this community a d the practicalities of sailing a boat over a large body of water with ones wife and child.

s/v Jedi made a very interesting point, it's a very rare couple that cross oceans. It's even rarer to then do it with very small children. So what lessons can be learned. For me ( note : me ) the ones are

(A) how skilled is my wife, can she sail the boat single handed. Really can she do this ? Or is it the typical cruising couple of a women following hers mans dream, face it we've seen it

(b) do I have a sea worthy boat, do I really , how many of us sail,, knowing in the back of our mind , we know there are nagging boat issues. ( often cause we haven't the money )

(C) how much experience do you need ,especially with small kids , how do you a a quite that experience without biting off more then you can chew ,


(D) do men in particular , sell the dream to unconvinced partners, evidence at most major ocean crossings would suggest they do

(F) perhaps we as men , being in the majority of sailors might look into our hearts and deal with the conflict of our dream and our family , can we compromise , should we compromise.

Kens issues with diapers etc are not the kernel, such issues are more to do with " preparedness " and experience. You said in your case you streamed them behind the boat , we washed clothes that that way as well. Why didn't. Charlotte , maybe she didn't know, so how do we ensure others " know "

That's it for me, kids on boats , no issue.

Dave


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[LBW399]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

The thing I dislike on CF in relation to abandoning boats has been the underlying current in many threads and many posts on many abandoning, that somehow , you failed as a skipper or as a " man" even because you pressed the red button and you and your crew got pulled off ( by whatever process). Cf ers have taken strips off people defending such actions. ( like me )

Then you get the nutters complaining about rescue costs or even more bizarrely, somehow expecting you should pay for your mistakes with your life or your crews life. ( the take your consequences group )

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You do realise Rebel Heart in his 6,000 plus posts did himself say some similar things to what you are decrying here, about others being rescued? I don't need to go point out some of the posts or threads because others already have. Perhaps he has learnt a harsh lesson in humility.
I have already said that I reckon he made the right call to leave the boat and be with the most important thing in his (or anyones) life - his family, especially considering the sick child.
I also respect he actually gave it a crack and went out there into the big blue, even if if his wife may not have been 100% into it. Too many men let the wife or girlfriend boss them around, so I am glad in that sense he said, "hey we're goin"...or words to that effect.
Others are now making lists of potential areas he may have got it wrong, and that's okay too, because as serious as their situation was, we can now all learn a bit from this knowing that they are now safe and sound.
Peace out.

[deckofficer]

Originally Posted by atoll

there was some pretty vile stuff there posted by turdnibblers,whipped into a frenzy by the media wind up merchants.

i would hate to see a new "inside" story quoted directly from cruisers forum.

another thing mr webber should be warned about by the mods is NOT including links to his spurious inflamatory quotes from the web

Thanks atoll, you get it.

Delfin, as to me, in the words of atoll ....."inside" story...from a Merchant Mariner and CMA alumni ,,,,,,,,,,, no thanks and no comment.

[Delfin]

Originally Posted by deckofficer

Thanks atoll, you get it.

Delfin, as to me, in the words of atoll ....."inside" story...from a Merchant Mariner and CMA alumni ,,,,,,,,,,, no thanks and no comment.

I have no idea what that means.

[Doodles]

Originally Posted by Delfin

I have no idea what that means.

I was wondering the same thing.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by LBW399

You do realise Rebel Heart in his 6,000 plus posts did himself say some similar things to what you are decrying here, about others being rescued? I don't need to go point out some of the posts or threads because others already have. Perhaps he has learnt a harsh lesson in humility.

I have already said that I reckon he made the right call to leave the boat and be with the most important thing in his (or anyones) life - his family, especially considering the sick child.

I also respect he actually gave it a crack and went out there into the big blue, even if if his wife may not have been 100% into it. Too many men let the wife or girlfriend boss them around, so I am glad in that sense he said, "hey we're goin"...or words to that effect.

Others are now making lists of potential areas he may have got it wrong, and that's okay too, because as serious as their situation was, we can now all learn a bit from this knowing that they are now safe and sound.

Peace out.

Oh, I know, I participated in such threads defending against his and others comments. I've seen strips on this forum pulled of the skipper of wolfhound or the Atlas cat. But f course they weren't CF insiders.

Eric, in particular is far from blameless. This was an avoidable event. But I think that type of criticism is best left till he returns, if he returns. In the meantime we can look to use the incident to help the cruising community as a whole.

Dave


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[minaret]

Originally Posted by Delfin

When I backed out of my slip last year with a 50 amp power cord attached, pulling the whole pedestal into the water and potentially threatening the life of a diver nearby there were lessons to be learned as well, and I couldn't possibly pretend otherwise. I was a careless idiot and lucked out and had to seriously reconsider if I was the competent skipper I thought I was.

If it helps, I did this once too. No diver, much smaller boat and no damage to anything due to my long habit of taking a turn around a cleat, both on deck and on the dock. Still highly embarrassing, particularly with the usual audience.