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Old 11-04-2014, 16:49   #31
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Re: Rebel Heart's contribution to the cruising community

Crossing a sea in a small boat is risky business at best. Its not in the #s of how many do it with no trouble and some with little experience or knowledge, it's that when things go wrong as in this case you are out there. If based on your judgment and moral standards you have also dragged minors along they may have to pay the price of your bad judgment along with you. This is apparently a personal call a cruising parent has to make. If things go well it's the right call if they go badly there is a lot of publicity and often blame. No Admiralty court here to decide.
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Old 11-04-2014, 16:51   #32
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Rebel Heart's contribution to the cruising community

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Originally Posted by btrayfors View Post
Sorry, ham radio is NOT dying out. Quite the contrary. There are far more hams in the U.S. now (over 700,000) than ever before. The number ran at about 300,000 for many years.

It's also very popular on cruising boats. And, this side of the Pond at least, marine SSB is very popular. It is dying in Europe, though, because of the advent of GMDSS and DSC, stringent regulations which drive the cost of equipment sky high --- out of the reach of many -- and the attendant drop in voice communications on the MF/HF marine channels.

IMHO, ham radio is still an important safety device, as well as a means of obtaining navigation information, weather, sending and receiving email, and communicating with other boats and land-based stations over hundreds or thousands of miles. Ditto for marine SSB in the Americas.

Bill
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I would question what you are saying about European numbers. Currently there are about 400,000 amateur stations registered in the EU, with the removal of the code requirements there has been a small growth in the order of 3.9%. However with many countries resorting to lifetime licenses, actively getting reliable numbers is getting harder.

However there is no connection with amateur and GMDSS an d DSC. No leisure boats in Europe are subject to either requirement and the only proviso is that all radios must be sold with DSC class D , a situation that is the same in the US. Nor are equipment prices " sky high "

The biggest effect in European MF /HF has been that commercial users have either totally gone to mobile cell near shore and satphone off shore, coupled with Inmarsat C and other satcomms has made the MF and most definitely marine HF bands very quiet, Mind you unlike the USCG , we , our Coast guard , still maintain listening watches on 2182. ( speaker not headset )

Marine MF or HF never ever featured strongly on cruising boats in Europe, we have long had a better VHF service, more extensive Gsm mobile service and DSC , navtex well in advance of the US. It's also not for nothing Inmarsat is British. Hence MF and especially HF has played little role in modern marine comms. For HF that's not surprising for a continent of the small size of Europe. We simply have better ways to communicate.

Personally, and I am a amateur operator , though not active recently, I'd say for offshore cruising the greatest safety comms is a working satphone. Better then anything else at present.

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Old 11-04-2014, 16:54   #33
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Re: Rebel Heart's contribution to the cruising community

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Originally Posted by eyschulman View Post
Crossing a sea in a small boat is risky business at best. Its not in the #s of how many do it with no trouble and some with little experience or knowledge, it's that when things go wrong as in this case you are out there. If based on your judgment and moral standards you have also dragged minors along they may have to pay the price of your bad judgment along with you. This is apparently a personal call a cruising parent has to make. If things go well it's the right call if they go badly there is a lot of publicity and often blame. No Admiralty court here to decide.
True, perhaps. I have been in a total t*ts-up situation, but luckily only me and an experienced delivery skipper. Parents do plenty of more risky things with kids on terra firma, and for the most part they aren't held to account in the way some of the public wants to hold the RHs to account. It's pretty simple, the public grafts its own irrational fears of the ocean onto its collective judgement.
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Old 11-04-2014, 17:07   #34
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Re: Rebel Heart's contribution to the cruising community

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Originally Posted by eyschulman View Post
Crossing a sea in a small boat is risky business at best. Its not in the #s of how many do it with no trouble and some with little experience or knowledge, it's that when things go wrong as in this case you are out there. If based on your judgment and moral standards you have also dragged minors along they may have to pay the price of your bad judgment along with you. This is apparently a personal call a cruising parent has to make. If things go well it's the right call if they go badly there is a lot of publicity and often blame. No Admiralty court here to decide.

The fact is , and insurance companies will back that up, crossing a sea in a small boat is NOT a risky business and sailing is not even rated as an " adventure" sport. Equally with modern rescue services and the availability of world girdling comms it's even less so.

This was an issue of a child becoming sick, not a boat getting into trouble. Yes Eric and Charlotte will have to examine their conscience and ask if they could have done something else , during, after or before the voyage. On,y they can take that decision and live with the consequences.

What we can do is examine the issues from our perspective and learn.

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Old 11-04-2014, 17:23   #35
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Re: Rebel Heart's contribution to the cruising community

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Originally Posted by eyschulman View Post
Crossing a sea in a small boat is risky business at best. Its not in the #s of how many do it with no trouble and some with little experience or knowledge, it's that when things go wrong as in this case you are out there. If based on your judgment and moral standards you have also dragged minors along they may have to pay the price of your bad judgment along with you. This is apparently a personal call a cruising parent has to make. If things go well it's the right call if they go badly there is a lot of publicity and often blame. No Admiralty court here to decide.
All kids have to pay the price of their parents bad judgment, and all parents have bad judgment from time to time. Some are worse than others, of course.

I would seriously question your assertion, though, that taking minors on a crossing is bad judgment. I don't think it is at all.

Letting your kids grow up to think that taking any risks, not matter the rewards is a bad idea... Now that might be poor judgment.
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Old 11-04-2014, 17:35   #36
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Re: Rebel Heart's contribution to the cruising community

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All kids have to pay the price of their parents bad judgment, and all parents have bad judgment from time to time. Some are worse than others, of course.

I would seriously question your assertion, though, that taking minors on a crossing is bad judgment. I don't think it is at all.

Letting your kids grow up to think that taking any risks, not matter the rewards is a bad idea... Now that might be poor judgment.
In the case of Rebel Heart, it wasn't an issue of poor judgement... it was more like a total stuff up by self centered parents. Otherwise I agree with your comments.

Ken
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Old 11-04-2014, 17:39   #37
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Re: Rebel Heart's contribution to the cruising community

Could you please explain what you mean by self-centered?
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Old 11-04-2014, 17:41   #38
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Re: Rebel Heart's contribution to the cruising community

One of Charlotte's complaints about their boat is that it didn't have pressure water. It's really hard for me to imagine in this day and age, and on a boat the size of RH, not having pressure HOT water while sailing with a baby in cloth diapers. Of course this pales in comparison to setting off with a 3 and 1 year-old on a 3000 mile passage with zero offshore experience, but perhaps they wouldn't have gotten as sick if they had had a better plan for the diapers than washing them in the galley sink with cold, foot pumped water, the baby and first mate having recently been diagnosed with salmonella and the 3 year-old with proteus, both found in human feces.

Hot pressure water and a few 5 gallon plastic jerry cans full of diesel, lashed securely to stanchions so they could run the engine in the doldrums and later for hot water, without impacting their main supply.
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Old 11-04-2014, 17:42   #39
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Re: Rebel Heart's contribution to the cruising community

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In the case of Rebel Heart, it wasn't an issue of poor judgement... it was more like a total stuff up by self centered parents. Otherwise I agree with your comments.

Ken

That's rather harsh. Were mistakes made, of course perhaps the dream override common , particulary maternal common sense. But a FUBAR no I don't accept that.

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Old 11-04-2014, 17:45   #40
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Re: Rebel Heart's contribution to the cruising community

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Sure.

Sick 1-Year-Old Rescued From Sailboat 1,000 Miles Off Mexican Coast : The Two-Way : NPR

This was a "first day" story based on the limited information available at the time.

I heard that!

When do you get your own show? Maybe you could take over for Diane Rheem. Poor girl is having a lot of vocal issues.
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Old 11-04-2014, 17:59   #41
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Re: Rebel Heart's contribution to the cruising community

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That's rather harsh. Were mistakes made, of course perhaps the dream override common , particulary maternal common sense. But a FUBAR no I don't accept that.

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Dave.

Eric sliced up his leaky fuel tank the week before departure and set off with only a small outboard fuel can instead of waiting in Mexico for a few days to have the primary tank properly repaired. He intentionally reduced his fuel capacity by half... because he was in a hurry.

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Old 11-04-2014, 17:59   #42
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Re: Rebel Heart's contribution to the cruising community

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In the case of Rebel Heart, it wasn't an issue of poor judgement... it was more like a total stuff up by self centered parents. Otherwise I agree with your comments.

Ken
They sure don't seem at all self centered to me. Nor does it seem like a total stuff up. Other than the sickness, of course.
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Old 11-04-2014, 18:08   #43
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Re: Rebel Heart's contribution to the cruising community

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Originally Posted by Charlie Weber View Post
One of Charlotte's complaints about their boat is that it didn't have pressure water. It's really hard for me to imagine in this day and age, and on a boat the size of RH, not having pressure HOT water while sailing with a baby in cloth diapers. Of course this pales in comparison to setting off with a 3 and 1 year-old on a 3000 mile passage with zero offshore experience, but perhaps they wouldn't have gotten as sick if they had had a better plan for the diapers than washing them in the galley sink with cold, foot pumped water, the baby and first mate having recently been diagnosed with salmonella and the 3 year-old with proteus, both found in human feces.

Hot pressure water and a few 5 gallon plastic jerry cans full of diesel, lashed securely to stanchions so they could run the engine in the doldrums and later for hot water, without impacting their main supply.
when we sailed with our 5 week old daughter from bundaberg to darwin,2000 miles taking 3 months,we just put the soiled nappies on a rope out the back of the of the vessel,and let the sea do the work,then rinsed in fresh.

never had hot water on any of our boats on 2 circumnavigations apart from boiled kettels,never had food poisoning either,but we never had a fridge,thet can quickly breed bacteria in stored food in the tropics.

but again i wouldn't like to speculate,as it is all too easy without any facts to draw the wrong self serving conclusions
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Old 11-04-2014, 18:14   #44
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Re: Rebel Heart's contribution to the cruising community

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when we sailed with our 5 week old daughter from bundaberg to darwin,2000 miles taking 3 months,we just put the soiled nappies on a rope out the back of the of the vessel,and let the sea do the work,then rinsed in fresh.



never had hot water on any of our boats on 2 circumnavigations apart from boiled kettels,never had food poisoning either,but we never had a fridge,thet can quickly breed bacteria in stored food in the tropics.



but again i wouldn't like to speculate,as it is all too easy without any facts to draw the wrong self serving conclusions

Why what facts are we missing that are germane to the discussion.

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Old 11-04-2014, 18:21   #45
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Re: Rebel Heart's contribution to the cruising community

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Why what facts are we missing that are germane to the discussion.

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These examples, dirty diapers washed with cold water in the galley sink, cutting up the primary fuel tank etc. Were taken right from the Kaufman's blogs. Truly Mind boggling stuff.


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