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Old 16-04-2014, 07:32   #421
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Re: Rebel Heart's Contribution to the Cruising Community

I love the way hearsay and speculation become facts, topics for pontification, posturing, and debate around here. I am clearly guilty too, no marginalizing there, but after one thread of 1,200+ posts (closed) and 400 more here, isn't this just ridiculous circle talk and drift into a maelstrom of nothingness?

The excuse of "lessons learning" doesn't fly.

Reminder and reset that we know nothing about what they had or had not aboard that boat, what worked or didn't, nor the true reasons behind their abandonment.
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Old 16-04-2014, 07:33   #422
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Re: Rebel Heart's Contribution to the Cruising Community

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Originally Posted by Cuttyhunk View Post
I would be delighted if the money wasted on endless circling over my house of National Guard C-130s using up their monthly fuel allotment just "so they don't reduce it in the future" was reallocated to actual rescues.
Nearly every time I've logging into the CF forum over the past week, I couldn't help noticing that Rebel Heart was logged on reading all the posts related to the topic. Wouldn't it be delightful if he stopped wasting his energy on "endless circling" over the forum, contribute to the discussion, and end some of the mysteries we're talking about, so that we can reallocate our efforts towards other endeavors instead of speculation?

Sorry to take your quote totally out of context.

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Old 16-04-2014, 07:40   #423
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Re: Rebel Heart's Contribution to the Cruising Community

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Originally Posted by Kenomac View Post
The RH was depending on electric power produced by the motor to charge the batteries for the electronics including the auto pilot. He also blew out his drifter sail the first time he set it. I assume he had a genoa or standard jib to replace it, but the pictures of the boat from the rescue ship don't show one being used, so who knows? I'm not sure if he had extra sails or the ability to repair them onboard, but it doesn't sound like it from the blogs.

So if one doesn't have enough fuel onboard at the beginning to make it at least a good part of the way, and one's sails become tattered and torn but can't be repaired... to me that represents an unprepared vessel and skipper. Jeez, we have heavy sails, extra sails, roller furling systems, my wife sews and we have a good sailcloth repair kit onboard our boat.... and we just cruise around the Med. at this time. No 3000 mile ocean crossings planned. What was RH thinking?

I'm wondering what Eric would have done if the kid had not become sick. Would he have pushed the button for a rescue anyway or sailed on?
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Old 16-04-2014, 07:43   #424
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Re: Rebel Heart's Contribution to the Cruising Community

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Originally Posted by Doodles View Post
I'm wondering what Eric would have done if the kid had not become sick. Would he have pushed the button for a rescue anyway or sailed on?

What possible value could the answer to this question have?
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Old 16-04-2014, 07:43   #425
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Re: Rebel Heart's Contribution to the Cruising Community

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Originally Posted by SaltyMonkey View Post
I love the way hearsay and speculation become facts, topics for pontification, posturing, and debate around here. I am clearly guilty too, no marginalizing there, but after one thread of 1,200+ posts (closed) and 400 more here, isn't this just ridiculous circle talk and drift into a maelstrom of nothingness?

The excuse of "lessons learning" doesn't fly.

Reminder and reset that we know nothing about what they had or had not aboard that boat, what worked or didn't, nor the true reasons behind their abandonment.

I forgot. We are suppose to wait for the book to come out with the "real story".
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Old 16-04-2014, 07:44   #426
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Re: Rebel Heart's Contribution to the Cruising Community

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Originally Posted by SaltyMonkey View Post
I love the way hearsay and speculation become facts, topics for pontification, posturing, and debate around here. I am clearly guilty too, no marginalizing there, but after one thread of 1,200+ posts (closed) and 400 more here, isn't this just ridiculous circle talk and drift into a maelstrom of nothingness?

The excuse of "lessons learning" doesn't fly.

Reminder and reset that we know nothing about what they had or had not aboard that boat, what worked or didn't, nor the true reasons behind their abandonment.
Ah salty, a monkey after my own heart
Not that I'm contributing to the speculation, pontification, posturing, and debate around here. I would just like to add that the navy could of given him plenty of fuel to complete his voyage. I've mooched 20 gallons when boarded in the middle of GOM. As RH previously stated, they had to abandon because they feared for baby's health.
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Old 16-04-2014, 07:50   #427
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Re: Rebel Heart's Contribution to the Cruising Community

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Agreed about autopilots. When you consider how much more expensive a wind vane is compared to electronic autopilot, even including the battery bank and means for electrical generation, I don't understand why these idiots are out there tinkering with their wind vanes. Not only is high tech better, it is cheaper and more reliable.[/B]
Spoken like someone who has never actually used a good servo-pendulum vane, nor seen how powerful, reliable, and as close to being a perpetual motion device they can be... (I would not put REBEL HEART's Hydrovane in that category, btw)





"Idiots", indeed... :-)













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Besides, electronic autopilots rarely fail and if they do it is usually very easy to fix yourself or find someone who can do it for you inexpensively, people all over the world use electronics.
Yes, we all know how easily Black Boxes can be repaired underway, or how rarely electrons cease flowing through them aboard sailing yachts at sea...

A Swan 46 like WOLFHOUND, or a brand-new $700K Alpha 42 like BE GOOD TOO being recent notable exceptions, of course... :-)
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Old 16-04-2014, 07:59   #428
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Re: Rebel Heart's Contribution to the Cruising Community

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Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate View Post
Can't fix in those condx. Requires compete removal of hatch. Duct tape will not stick then the waves are breaking onto the cabin top. Water was comin in between the frame and the deckhouse top.

Ann
That's why heaving to is such a useful maneuver. The "conditions" stop being the conditions and you can do all sorts of things you can't do when bashing to weather. I believe Lyn Pardey took those opportunities to take a bath, or bake bread as I recall.
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Old 16-04-2014, 08:01   #429
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Re: Rebel Heart's Contribution to the Cruising Community

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What does this have to do with anything? Mexicans? Please take this crap some place else.
Totally not where I was going with that, so apologize if my intent was taken as such.

I was simply pointing out the fact that per the man's comments, they rarely rescue Americans. This means most of the time they are rescuing people of other nations.

Perhaps if people who complain about their tax dollars being spent to rescue RH would feel differently if they considered this.
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Old 16-04-2014, 08:02   #430
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Re: Rebel Heart's Contribution to the Cruising Community

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Originally Posted by atoll View Post
due to the nature of east- west downwind passages,and having sails goosewinged,your solar panel only gets direct sunlight for maybe 3 hours a day,leaving you with a serious shortage of power if running an electric auto pilot,or any other services.

the engine needs 3-4 liters an hour,not in gear just to charge the batteries.
assuming he had 25 galons left,with a 5 galon safety margin,that would have left roughly 20 hours of charge time,to cover 2000 miles,or another 20-30 days at sea,which would have forced them to hand steer at least half the way assuming the windvane was inoperable,due to a broken paddle or gearbox failure.

during optimum conditions with every thing working they were only making 100 miles a day,having to hand steer 12 hours aday,and drifting the other 12 would have doubled the passage time to nearer 40 days left.

i think it is fairly obvious why they could not continue the voyage.
Perhaps why the couldn't continue, but they were perhaps 1 week from shore? I suppose it wouldn't be the first time someone, given a couple of weeks to think about it, would notice a flaw in a plan and decide to retreat in order to fight another day.
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Old 16-04-2014, 08:08   #431
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Re: Rebel Heart's Contribution to the Cruising Community

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the engine needs 3-4 liters an hour,not in gear just to charge the batteries.
minor point, but I think their engine would consume a lot less than 3 or 4 liters per hour just above idle.
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Old 16-04-2014, 08:14   #432
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Re: Rebel Heart's Contribution to the Cruising Community

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Originally Posted by Delancey View Post
Totally not where I was going with that, so apologize if my intent was taken as such.

I was simply pointing out the fact that per the man's comments, they rarely rescue Americans. This means most of the time they are rescuing people of other nations.

Perhaps if people who complain about their tax dollars being spent to rescue RH would feel differently if they considered this.
Funny you should say this. I purchased a boat in California as this was unfolding and the general consensus was "tell them you're just going to work on the boat and then take it out of the state and you don't have to pay taxes". After seeing the effort put in by the rescuers, I decided three or four grand wasn't an awful price to pay. Besides, seems like an awful lot of Canadians are being rescued lately.

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Old 16-04-2014, 08:16   #433
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Re: Rebel Heart's Contribution to the Cruising Community

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What possible value could the answer to this question have?

Oh, I think it would tell us a lot.
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Old 16-04-2014, 08:18   #434
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Re: Rebel Heart's Contribution to the Cruising Community

As I still don't feel I've heard Eric and Charlotte's analysis of "what went wrong", I will withhold my opinions on their actions. I am quite interested, however, because we are planning much the same sort of trip, but with some differences. The main ones for me are as follows (and are to this point):

1) We have one son, currently 12 1/2 and the same size now as my wife. He's been sailing since he was seven and is taking further advanced courses this summer.
2) My wife and I have done two saltwater deliveries each (and separately) since 2007.
3) I've taken an RYA course and will take more. So will the missus.
4) We both know our pilotage, diesel repair, CN, and first aid and have taken courses (and fixed things while underway) to that end.
5) We've done most of our own refitting. That's why we haven't left yet! Refitting/re-engining a mid-size offshore-capable boat is like apprenticing in four or five different trades, or so it seems.
6) We've each experienced, on different boats, sustained gales of 40-50 knots and squalls past 65 knots. We know what that sounds like and how to heave to, deploy drogues or reduce sail to kerchiefs.
7) This might be the most important part: We plan to leave Toronto for a summer's cruising in Nova Scotia, and then to haul out for winter in Halifax prior to a following spring Atlantic crossing to the British Isles.

Our "shakedown" will thus be in waters tidal, oceanic and yet domestic. The Gulf of St. Lawrence and the Atlantic in front of Nova Scotia is the real deal, and yet is well-supplied if things break. And things always break.

It's too close to launch for me to read Rebel Heart's blogs or even this large thread, but I would suggest that our plans and preparations may serve us better in the long run than did theirs...but I would like to hear their side of the story if they choose to relate it.
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Old 16-04-2014, 08:40   #435
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Re: Rebel Heart's Contribution to the Cruising Community

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Originally Posted by Delancey View Post
Agreed about autopilots. When you consider how much more expensive a wind vane is compared to electronic autopilot, even including the battery bank and means for electrical generation, I don't understand why these idiots are out there tinkering with their wind vanes. Not only is high tech better, it is cheaper and more reliable.

Besides, electronic autopilots rarely fail and if they do it is usually very easy to fix yourself or find someone who can do it for you inexpensively, people all over the world use electronics.
It is difficult for me to understand how any experienced yachtsman could get so much wrong in so few words.

A quality autopilot, battery bank and various charging systems cheaper than a vane (installed)? The average boater repairing his own electronic autopilot? Easily finding someone to do it (anywhere in the world) inexpensively?
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