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Old 14-04-2014, 12:03   #256
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Re: Rebel Heart's Contribution to the Cruising Community

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Originally Posted by transmitterdan View Post
RH voyage has not enough statistical significance to change anything about cruising. It is possible to make no mistakes and still fail. (Paraphrased from Star Trek NG "Peak Performance" episode.) Similarly it is possible to make many errors and still reach the goal. Trying to draw conclusions about your own fate from tiny data sets is pointless. Worse than pointless if you believe there is a lesson to be learned from a single event. It's like obsessing over a lottery winner in a futile attempt to figure out their secret to winning.
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Old 14-04-2014, 12:09   #257
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Re: Rebel Heart's contribution to the cruising community

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I agree with you about all of those benefits. In regards to babies, research suggests that they absorb everything they come in contact with, so the recommendation was to use a large vocabulary around them, not baby talk, to give them an early start on vocabulary. I suppose that could be true, in which case being on a boat with just their parents most of the time and being around conversations that focus on limited topics might not be the best. But that's not the major concern.

I think it boils down to 2 babies being too much work. While they didn't envision it, the fact remains that the children became a full time job. Whether it was seasickness, or another illness, or even if the kids didn't get sick, they're a full time job. So Charlotte's doing full time daycare and Eric is single handing it. Any little mechanical issue is now a bigger deal. The proof is in the pudding, as soon as the rescuers boarded, Eric had already made up his mind they were going to scuttle it. That's a final solution that indicates you not only want to get off of it, you don't want it back.

I'm not saying people shouldn't cruise the world with kids, but a baby is a lot of work and 2 babies is a LOT of work. My mom waited 9 yrs for the 2nd one, so that she could use me to change the baby's diapers. How's that for planning? LOL
Yes, absolutely. It needs to be one parent for the kids and one for the boat. the parents can alternate who's looking after which, of course, but it is pretty close to single-handing the boat and much more work than a couple with no kids.

I don't see single handing a boat on a crossing as that big a deal, though. People do it all the time. Some will choose not to, but that doesn't mean it isn't workable. After 7 years on the boat and a year of that in Mexico cruising, I'm pretty sure Eric and Charlotte knew roughly how the split in labour would work out for their particular couple.
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Old 14-04-2014, 12:19   #258
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Re: Rebel Heart's contribution to the cruising community

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Yes, absolutely. It needs to be one parent for the kids and one for the boat. the parents can alternate who's looking after which, of course, but it is pretty close to single-handing the boat and much more work than a couple with no kids.

I don't see single handing a boat on a crossing as that big a deal, though. People do it all the time. Some will choose not to, but that doesn't mean it isn't workable. After 7 years on the boat and a year of that in Mexico cruising, I'm pretty sure Eric and Charlotte knew roughly how the split in labour would work out for their particular couple.
rubbish,i have 2 female friends,both single handers,both with boats over 42 feet,who single hand regularly across oceans,both have done it with kids that could not crawl yet.ie under 18 months.
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Old 14-04-2014, 13:05   #259
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Re: Rebel Heart's Contribution to the Cruising Community

If I was the crew of RH and had read this and various other forum threads, read the news stories, etc. etc. the only way I would put my story out would be for enough cash to get a new boat plus! It would have cover the new boat costs plus the mental pain of listening to people who weren't there and were not even affected voice their useless opinions.


While I would love to read the first hand story, I definitely would not hold it against them to just go about their lives in peace.
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Old 14-04-2014, 13:06   #260
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Re: Rebel Heart's Contribution to the Cruising Community

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Originally Posted by Doodles View Post
New posting from Rebel Heart:

Rebel Heart - Charlotte's Blog - Overwhelmed, Shocked,Â*Saddened

Let the nitpicking begin … she says "they helped us manually pump our bilge every few hours" and "They slept for three nights in a tiny, cramped cabin that poured seawater with every breaking wave."

This doesn't sound like what I heard on the press conference video by the rescue crew.
If you look at the photo of them abandoning ship (the one with the wheel in it ) there doesn't seem to be much of a sea running. Maybe it was like the movie 'the Perfect Storm' where it was glassy calm every day and a howling gale every night....
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Old 14-04-2014, 13:09   #261
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Re: Rebel Heart's Contribution to the Cruising Community

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In regard to the topic of what contributions the RH has made to the cruising community, I would think
of this event as a huge opportunity for Eric to contribute lessons learned from his experience.
In order to do this, one has to be honest with oneself. At the end of the day, all the scrutiny in the world faced by RH means nothing, it is the scrutiny one lives with when they put their head on their pillow at night that counts for the most. IMO, self scrutiny is a major part of growth.
As a mother, grandmother, I know there are many experiences I have gone through and learned from
in regard to the care my children, that I now have the opportunity to pass that wisdom on to my children regarding their own. Whether on land or at sea, we make decisions regarding our kids, that we learn from, hindsite is 20/20 in most cases. The bottom line is if we are not honest with ourselves, we lose an opportunity for learning, growth, and the future imparting of wisdom passed down.
As a friend, mother, I am fiercely loyal, and will stick by you whether I feel you are right or wrong.
I may not agree with you, but I will stick by you.
That to me seems like the greatest part of the marine community, they stick together.
Hopefully once the dust settles, and the crew of RH, have had some quiet time to reflect on all that has happened, they will honestly impart whatever lessons this experience has taught them.
As the old saying goes, “Those who don't learn from history are condemned to repeat it.”
We all can have our opinions on this whole event, (and boy are there a lot of opinions!)
but not a one of us was there. Hopefully in the days ahead Eric & Charlotte will share their experience
in an honest way, the good, the bad, and the ugly, so that future cruising families can learn from their experience. There is always a lesson to be learned in any situation in life, and life throws curve balls,
the best laid plans go awry, and **** happens, through no fault of our own. There is also, in any situation, an opportunity to learn & grow, and figure out how we could have done things better.
I am hoping Eric & Charlotte are willing to share that.
In the meantime, so very glad the crew of RH are safe, warm, and healthy and together
where they belong.
Meme

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Old 14-04-2014, 13:15   #262
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Re: Rebel Heart's Contribution to the Cruising Community

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Originally Posted by SaltyMonkey View Post
My attitude is that you can't prepare for everything. You do the best you can within your own means, experiences, time, and where you are going. You go lightly into the field and don't get bogged down in the dogma and pontification of others. Yout take what you can from them but move on. That isn't being careless. That's just being realistic.
Agreed. I guess where I have trouble (and this does not apply to RH, just to be clear) is when folks fail to prepare because they think the technology is gonna save 'em. Suddenly when the chartplotter packs it up or the refrigeration goes out, they're in trouble.

Stuff happens. On every single passage I've been on, something (or multiple things) have broken. You either fix it, or live without it.

As for preparation: learn to fix the things you can't do without and learn to live without the things you can live without.

Marine HVAC would be nice to know, but it's not necessary. Diesel mechanics or simple sail repair are a different story.
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Old 14-04-2014, 13:23   #263
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Re: Rebel Heart's Contribution to the Cruising Community

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I take that all as a grain in comparison to those emails she posted on there.
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It's unclear what is really dramatic and what is just vague. pouring in could be from an open hatch for ventilation. Pumping every few hours depend on what she thinks few hours are.

Oh the drama.
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I see the negative. I also see you can make it positive if you secure what you contribute to a select audience.
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With four stinky pjs, a pile of used diapers, and a backed up head I bet you would change your mind.
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Here we go. Deconstruction of a story at its worse. Embarrassing.
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Because perceptions and truth never totally coincide.
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Five posts in and you have my stamp of Troll approval
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Nice Best one yet
Have you ever thought about waiting for a few hours between posts then making one that is longer than 7 words and has some point to it?
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Old 14-04-2014, 13:26   #264
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Re: Rebel Heart's Contribution to the Cruising Community

Quote:
Originally Posted by transmitterdan View Post
RH voyage has not enough statistical significance to change anything about cruising. It is possible to make no mistakes and still fail. (Paraphrased from Star Trek NG "Peak Performance" episode.) Similarly it is possible to make many errors and still reach the goal. Trying to draw conclusions about your own fate from tiny data sets is pointless. Worse than pointless if you believe there is a lesson to be learned from a single event. It's like obsessing over a lottery winner in a futile attempt to figure out their secret to winning.
Spot on!
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Old 14-04-2014, 13:32   #265
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Re: Rebel Heart's Contribution to the Cruising Community

Now we have comments about how a poster chooses to post (ie, conversational responses vs. long comments)? Are y'all trying to get the thread shut down?
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Old 14-04-2014, 13:34   #266
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Re: Rebel Heart's Contribution to the Cruising Community

As Dave mentioned earlier much of prep for offshore is mental. Bumfizzle was poorly prepared from a knowledge base but obviously both of them were mentally tough. It would appear that it may have been the opposite on RH.
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Old 14-04-2014, 13:40   #267
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Rebel Heart's Contribution to the Cruising Community

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rubbish,i have 2 female friends,both single handers,both with boats over 42 feet,who single hand regularly across oceans,both have done it with kids that could not crawl yet.ie under 18 months.

With the greatest respect to you, and others here. Firstly , everyone can point to exceptional people that can and do exceptional things. Equally in a marina of cruising sailors it's most unusual to have two female ocean going singlehanders. They are outliers

Rather like the spurious argument about statistical relevance. Since we are unlikely to ever have any sort of " data set" of any size , such comments are therefore meaningless , just
Iike the bounty accident , these things are analysed in isolation, primarily to use as a guide line for others following in their footsteps.

Whether we know the full story or not. I think what most people will take from this, is that setting off on a very long ocean trip with your wife and two very small kids requires a significant degree of thoughtful introspection. Some may still go, others may go sailing elsewhere. I respect all those decisions including RH. Personally I may agree or disagree with them. That's just my view.


What does concern me, is that, leaving aside the nutters ( and I see no evidence of them here on CF ) , like those that screamed "make them pay", or "where is CPS", is that there seems a intensive campaign present RH as idealist cruisers who had a small problem. This seems to be because a few here , seem to know them well. Yet funnily, such support was not forthcoming for say Wolfhound or, the couple rescued last year, or the delivery skipper on the Alpha. Strange that !

The other thing that strikes me as odd, is that the council for the defence repeatedly try to " wish the blog away", like its almost it's an embarrassment. They even talk after the latest blog post by Charlotte ( which ads to the perplexing situation ) that somehow her personal perspective and the truth could be different. That's strikes me as almost like saying, "she was hysterical M'lud "

I've been on this forum for over 9 years ( two usernames) and I've commented on many of a Eric postings, several of which I didn't agree with,others I did. So I've seen most of his postings.

But there is a danger of the " emperor has no clothes" delusion. It's clear to an logical person reading the blogs and following the rescue, that unfortunately despite their best intents and dreams, this was a voyage whose various difficulties exceeded their abilities to handle it.

Theres nothing wrong in that admission, nothing wrong at all and in that regards RH deserves our sympathies, AS does all those forced to abandon their boat and possibly their dream.

I know the usual positive filibustering debate will follow this post from the same people, who's own intentions I find hard to fathom. It would seem there are those that would like all debate on this voyage to cease or turning it all into a group hug.

Neither of which does justice to the " elephant in the room " question, do we as men , subject our families to inappropriate pressure to follow the dream, even when deep down we know it has serious issues that we'd prefer not to tackle.

This isn't about kids on boats , it's not about wife's or family on boats, it's a not about the preparedness of crossing oceans on small boats . It's about it all together, a holistic view of what decision we should take

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Old 14-04-2014, 13:47   #268
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Re: Rebel Heart's Contribution to the Cruising Community

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Have you ever thought about waiting for a few hours between posts then making one that is longer than 7 words and has some point to it?
Have you ever thought about not being so pretentious or lecturing in life, or do you, who are retired and have real funds and a real boat under your arse, just liking to sit around reading posts all day commenting endlessly about others style instead of sailing?

Im sorry, was this post of your contributing equally as well to the conversation at hand? I don't know, but I don't really care much about you anyway. You know this.
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Old 14-04-2014, 13:53   #269
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Re: Rebel Heart's Contribution to the Cruising Community

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The other thing that strikes me as odd, is that the council for the defence repeatedly try to " wish the blog away", like its almost it's an embarrassment. They even talk after the latest blog post by Charlotte ( which ads to the perplexing situation ) that somehow her personal perspective and the truth could be different. That's strikes me as almost like saying, "she was hysterical M'lud "
Where have you seen that? All I see are comments claiming that "twice a day" and "every few hours" are grossly incompatible versions of the story, rather than normal variations.
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Old 14-04-2014, 13:57   #270
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Re: Rebel Heart's Contribution to the Cruising Community

Quote:
Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
With the greatest respect to you, and others here. Firstly , everyone can point to exceptional people that can and do exceptional things. Equally in a marina of cruising sailors it's most unusual to have two female ocean going singlehanders. They are outliers

Rather like the spurious argument about statistical relevance. Since we are unlikely to ever have any sort of " data set" of any size , such comments are therefore meaningless , just
Iike the bounty accident , these things are analysed in isolation, primarily to use as a guide line for others following in their footsteps.

Whether we know the full story or not. I think what most people will take from this, is that setting off on a very long ocean trip with your wife and two very small kids requires a significant degree of thoughtful introspection. Some may still go, others may go sailing elsewhere. I respect all those decisions including RH. Personally I may agree or disagree with them. That's just my view.


What does concern me, is that, leaving aside the nutters ( and I see no evidence of them here on CF ) , like those that screamed "make them pay", or "where is CPS", is that there seems a intensive campaign present RH as idealist cruisers who had a small problem. This seems to be because a few here , seem to know them well. Yet funnily, such support was not forthcoming for say Wolfhound or, the couple rescued last year, or the delivery skipper on the Alpha. Strange that !

The other thing that strikes me as odd, is that the council for the defence repeatedly try to " wish the blog away", like its almost it's an embarrassment. They even talk after the latest blog post by Charlotte ( which ads to the perplexing situation ) that somehow her personal perspective and the truth could be different. That's strikes me as almost like saying, "she was hysterical M'lud "

I've been on this forum for over 9 years ( two usernames) and I've commented on many of a Eric postings, several of which I didn't agree with,others I did. So I've seen most of his postings.

But there is a danger of the " emperor has no clothes" delusion. It's clear to an logical person reading the blogs and following the rescue, that unfortunately despite their best intents and dreams, this was a voyage whose various difficulties exceeded their abilities to handle it.

Theres nothing wrong in that admission, nothing wrong at all and in that regards RH deserves our sympathies, AS does all those forced to abandon their boat and possibly their dream.

I know the usual positive filibustering debate will follow this post from the same people, who's own intentions I find hard to fathom. It would seem there are those that would like all debate on this voyage to cease or turning it all into a group hug.

Neither of which does justice to the " elephant in the room " question, do we as men , subject our families to inappropriate pressure to follow the dream, even when deep down we know it has serious issues that we'd prefer not to tackle.

This isn't about kids on boats , it's not about wife's or family on boats, it's a not about the preparedness of crossing oceans on small boats . It's about it all together, a holistic view of what decision we should take

Dave


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have at it guys
,i think the media has pretty much lost interest now
,so no danger of fanning the flames,
the RH's seem to be recovering nicely from their ordeal
,and charlotte is posting publically,
so at this stage it is probably a que for eric to speak.
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