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Old 13-04-2014, 14:05   #196
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Re: Rebel Heart's Contribution to the Cruising Community

In regard to the topic of what contributions the RH has made to the cruising community, I would think
of this event as a huge opportunity for Eric to contribute lessons learned from his experience.
In order to do this, one has to be honest with oneself. At the end of the day, all the scrutiny in the world faced by RH means nothing, it is the scrutiny one lives with when they put their head on their pillow at night that counts for the most. IMO, self scrutiny is a major part of growth.
As a mother, grandmother, I know there are many experiences I have gone through and learned from
in regard to the care my children, that I now have the opportunity to pass that wisdom on to my children regarding their own. Whether on land or at sea, we make decisions regarding our kids, that we learn from, hindsite is 20/20 in most cases. The bottom line is if we are not honest with ourselves, we lose an opportunity for learning, growth, and the future imparting of wisdom passed down.
As a friend, mother, I am fiercely loyal, and will stick by you whether I feel you are right or wrong.
I may not agree with you, but I will stick by you.
That to me seems like the greatest part of the marine community, they stick together.
Hopefully once the dust settles, and the crew of RH, have had some quiet time to reflect on all that has happened, they will honestly impart whatever lessons this experience has taught them.
As the old saying goes, “Those who don't learn from history are condemned to repeat it.”
We all can have our opinions on this whole event, (and boy are there a lot of opinions!)
but not a one of us was there. Hopefully in the days ahead Eric & Charlotte will share their experience
in an honest way, the good, the bad, and the ugly, so that future cruising families can learn from their experience. There is always a lesson to be learned in any situation in life, and life throws curve balls,
the best laid plans go awry, and **** happens, through no fault of our own. There is also, in any situation, an opportunity to learn & grow, and figure out how we could have done things better.
I am hoping Eric & Charlotte are willing to share that.
In the meantime, so very glad the crew of RH are safe, warm, and healthy and together
where they belong.
Meme

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Old 13-04-2014, 14:27   #197
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Re: Rebel Heart's Contribution to the Cruising Community

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Originally Posted by Horror Hotel View Post
She's been saying no to a cat from the minute she joined up over a year ago. She has a mental pic of herself in a big ass yacht and the cat has no place in her vision. She's literally stated it a hundred times.
Well, ya got that right I am NOT a fan of the catamaran, which I have voiced waaaayyyy more times than 1. I do put much emphasis on comfort and in my opinion cats are not as comfortable as some other boats that I have looked at.

Big ass yacht. Sure. Remember, I have 7 people, four of whom are teenagers. Space is a MUST.

But, this thread really isn't about me.
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Old 13-04-2014, 14:42   #198
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Re: Rebel Heart's Contribution to the Cruising Community

Ok, so this thread appears to be nearly dead but I'll put in my penn'o'worth anyway.
Deck officer. I really don't think Rebel Hearts problems will affect the increase or otherwise of people taking up cruising. These days it is generally access to greater incomes to the younger generation and individual dreams. Modern technology has given a false sense of security along with "possibley" ill conceived training programmes which teach some people how to sail but do not teach sailing and seamanship. This only comes with experience and the prudent would take small steps to gain that experience.
You asked about cruising 20 years ago..well..without admitting my age it was different. Today we have communication and information overload which tends to surpass common sense. If you can't sail without batteries then perhaps you should take up knitting. Self sufficiency is the answer and if you can't fix it if it's broke then it may be better not to have it.
Medical problems are another one. If you are broke, can you fix it? Before my partner and I set off ocean sailing our 'mad' local GP instructed us in everything he could think of...I would hate to have to remove an organ but think? I could and would if it really became necessary...we also carried an extensive medical kit. Again all part of the necessary learning experience.
Kennomac. Agree with you wholeheartedly and your bullet points..my thoughts exactly..probably as he had lambasted a good friend of mine with his greater than thow attitude!
Galaxy Girl. Unfortunately Eric's balls of steel were greater than his frontle lobes, but that is typical alpha male stuff and there are many break ups after an ocean crossing where the wife/friend/partner did not really want to go in the first place. Cruising with children appears to be a good thing but it also appears to be age dependent. Kids up to about age 14 make great ambassadors and with good home 'skooling' are far in advance of the kids at home. Good or bad? I don't know. Much older than 14 and you get the typical teenager, but that's part of growing up. Here I need to admit that this is pure observation and conversation in my many years of cruising with the best girl in my world. Good luck in your endevours and keep it simple.
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Old 13-04-2014, 14:53   #199
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Re: Rebel Heart's Contribution to the Cruising Community

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Well, ya got that right I am NOT a fan of the catamaran, which I have voiced waaaayyyy more times than 1. I do put much emphasis on comfort and in my opinion cats are not as comfortable as some other boats that I have looked at.

Big ass yacht. Sure. Remember, I have 7 people, four of whom are teenagers. Space is a MUST.

But, this thread really isn't about me.
Comfort if you mean space, then yes a 65' super beamy mono will have more space.

Comfort as in vessel motion, cat wins hands down. If you always plan on being in a marina slip in a protected area, all that space will be comfortable. If you want comfort during passage and anchorage, then consider vessel motion. If you remember me telling you, I did my thesis on minimum wetted surface vessels and back in the day for commercial marine, this meant catamaran ferries. What the early adopters discovered that in their quest for more speed (which appeals to ferry traffic) and less energy consumed, (good for their bottom line), they found the motion was such that their new cat ferries were only using a fraction of the sea sick bags vs the rest of their fleet.

I can understand you coming to CF to learn from as many here as possible. What I have a hard time understanding is when someone with my experience on very large vessels makes a suggestion to go with as light of displacement that will fit the size of your crew, you won't even consider it. Please believe me when I tell you there is a world of difference between a 100,000 lb boat and one that is 1/4 of that displacement.
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Old 13-04-2014, 15:49   #200
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Re: Rebel Heart's Contribution to the Cruising Community

All this thread has taught me is:

1) Don't discuss your plans in a blog or online. It will only end in grief. Only discuss your boat with insiders you can trust won't throw you to the wolves.
2) Our choice in a "small" 38 foot boat for cruising the world was a mistake. I should have gone for a 60 foot catamaran with 400 gallons of fuel and a years supply of fresh water.
3) Don't ever expect to cross an ocean unless we pay in countless years of blue water cruising first as a mate and an RN.
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Old 13-04-2014, 17:16   #201
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Rebel Heart's Contribution to the Cruising Community

Quote:
Originally Posted by deckofficer View Post
Comfort if you mean space, then yes a 65' super beamy mono will have more space.

Comfort as in vessel motion, cat wins hands down. If you always plan on being in a marina slip in a protected area, all that space will be comfortable. If you want comfort during passage and anchorage, then consider vessel motion. If you remember me telling you, I did my thesis on minimum wetted surface vessels and back in the day for commercial marine, this meant catamaran ferries. What the early adopters discovered that in their quest for more speed (which appeals to ferry traffic) and less energy consumed, (good for their bottom line), they found the motion was such that their new cat ferries were only using a fraction of the sea sick bags vs the rest of their fleet.

I can understand you coming to CF to learn from as many here as possible. What I have a hard time understanding is when someone with my experience on very large vessels makes a suggestion to go with as light of displacement that will fit the size of your crew, you won't even consider it. Please believe me when I tell you there is a world of difference between a 100,000 lb boat and one that is 1/4 of that displacement.
I don't think she likes Cats.
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Old 13-04-2014, 20:11   #202
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Re: Rebel Heart's Contribution to the Cruising Community

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Sorry, that was a very misleading quote. The average Cessna from 20 years ago had more advanced systems than the average yacht today. A 10 year old 747 (which is mostly what is flying today) is incredibly advanced compared to the few small rinky-dink systems on your average yacht being sold today.

I think the comparison was in state of the art integrated systems on modern yachts. As compared to non glass cockpits on 747. In that case it's an apt comparison

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Old 13-04-2014, 20:18   #203
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Re: Rebel Heart's Contribution to the Cruising Community

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Comfort if you mean space, then yes a 65' super beamy mono will have more space.



Comfort as in vessel motion, cat wins hands down. If you always plan on being in a marina slip in a protected area, all that space will be comfortable. If you want comfort during passage and anchorage, then consider vessel motion. If you remember me telling you, I did my thesis on minimum wetted surface vessels and back in the day for commercial marine, this meant catamaran ferries. What the early adopters discovered that in their quest for more speed (which appeals to ferry traffic) and less energy consumed, (good for their bottom line), they found the motion was such that their new cat ferries were only using a fraction of the sea sick bags vs the rest of their fleet.



I can understand you coming to CF to learn from as many here as possible. What I have a hard time understanding is when someone with my experience on very large vessels makes a suggestion to go with as light of displacement that will fit the size of your crew, you won't even consider it. Please believe me when I tell you there is a world of difference between a 100,000 lb boat and one that is 1/4 of that displacement.

I'm surprised she hadn't lashed out at you, it's been a year and you sound like a broken record. Listen to what you say in this post "thesis" and "someone with my experience" . Give me a break, you of all people should know that boats are a personal taste from the heart kinda thing over supreme logic. Your at the point of insulting her with the "I know best " routine. I bet she's more bitter than you think, hell I've watch you do it and I couldn't keep my mouth shut about it. She just came out and denounced cats, and was very clear, it's done, she's firm, over.
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Old 13-04-2014, 20:19   #204
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Rebel Heart's Contribution to the Cruising Community

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A common quote we used time and time again in the mountains was "if it doesn't kill you, it can only make you stronger". That was way before Kelly Clarkson made it famous.

It is true within reason of course. Bad things are never planned, but should be expected. How we deal with it builds character and strengthens us. Too most living in a bubble society, they cannot comprehend this and thus post negative non sense as we have witnessed.

I think the issues are a bit more nuanced, for me ,speaking personally, while I can cross and done so, oceans, I would not place my wife and very small kids in that position. At the very least I would have added a crew member at worst. I wouldn't make the trip like that.

But be clear that's my personal opinion , I'm not eric. He makes his choices , but equally he must lie in that bed. Including taking some flak when it comes wrong. It's called "being the skipper. "

I don't beleive the general public are living in a bubble, voyages like these ( and others) do raise questions and issues. Outsiders may not understand the nuances of course.

Personal attacks on RH are of course below the belt, but rational discussion of the issues is fair comment. The line of course can be hard to see at times.

I read a fair bit f the press coverage and the comments. The blog actually seemed to attract far more highly charged comments then the press coverage. I thought the blog was WAY too personal for public consumption and not a good idea. Public blogs should contain smiley people and happy stuff. Keep the 3am panicked thoughts for a private reading

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Old 13-04-2014, 20:23   #205
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Re: Rebel Heart's Contribution to the Cruising Community

Touche!

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I don't think she likes Cats.
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Old 13-04-2014, 20:31   #206
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Re: Rebel Heart's Contribution to the Cruising Community

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I think the issues are a bit more nuanced, for me ,speaking personally, while I can cross and done so, oceans, I would not place my wife and very small kids in that position. At the very least I would have added a crew member at worst. I wouldn't make the trip like that.

But be clear that's my personal opinion , I'm not eric. He makes his choices , but equally he must lie in that bed. Including taking some flak when it comes wrong. It's called "being the skipper. "

I don't beleive the general public are living in a bubble, voyages like these ( and others) do raise questions and issues. Outsiders may not understand the nuances of course.

Personal attacks on RH are of course below the belt, but rational discussion of the issues is fair comment. The line of course can be hard to see at times.

I read a fair bit f the press coverage and the comments. The blog actually seemed to attract far more highly charged comments then the press coverage. I thought the blog was WAY too personal for public consumption and not a good idea. Public blogs should contain smiley people and happy stuff. Keep the 3am panicked thoughts for a private reading

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By bubble I am referring to risk adverse to anything that may involve some sort of risk. Crossing oceans is risky. Riding horses over 9000 ft passes with grizzly s tracking you is risky. Doesn't matter the event, the general public will think your nuts, and will jump on you the moment you stumble. I think one reason may be because it shows something different than what they see as normal. You never seem to hear about the major success's in the media. Just the failures.
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Old 13-04-2014, 20:35   #207
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Re: Rebel Heart's Contribution to the Cruising Community

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By bubble I am referring to risk adverse to anything that may involve some sort of risk. Crossing oceans is risky. Riding horses over 9000 ft passes with grizzly s tracking you is risky. Doesn't matter the event, the general public will think your nuts, and will jump on you the moment you stumble. I think one reason may be because it shows something different than what they see as normal. You never seem to hear about the major success's in the media. Just the failures.

Certainly this side of the pond, the exploits of rock star sailors gets a lot of press.

The issue is of course children, people get very emotional when they feel children are put in danger. ( leaving aside the nut jobs that just wanted RH to pay for their rescue ). I can understand the publics reaction. Understand it, not agree with it , especially the more lunatic CPS stuff.

After all that has died down, issues remain, and CF is about the best place to discuss them.

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Old 13-04-2014, 20:40   #208
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Rebel Heart's Contribution to the Cruising Community

Another thought on that Dave. I have not crossed an ocean. I have thought many times of it. I would probably do it myself and a couple crew. I would leave my wife and 17 year old at home. The reason is straight forward I think. But that works for me and its because of my lack of confidence. I can't expect Eric to do the same as his confidence level is at a higher level, I can only assume. So I find it pointless to debate that.
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Old 13-04-2014, 20:53   #209
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Re: Rebel Heart's Contribution to the Cruising Community

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Another thought on that Dave. I have not crossed an ocean. I have thought many times of it. I would probably do it myself and a couple crew. I would leave my wife and 17 year old at home. The reason is straight forward I think. But that works for me and its because of my lack of confidence. I can't expect Eric to do the same as his confidence level is at a higher level, I can only assume. So I find it pointless to debate that.

I agree to a point , the issue has progressed to the point where it really needs a Eric to contribute and he may or not. The debate , well the rational one does through up some interesting issues , not about kids, but about men and dreams maybe.

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Old 13-04-2014, 21:00   #210
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Re: Rebel Heart's Contribution to the Cruising Community

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I'm surprised she hadn't lashed out at you, it's been a year and you sound like a broken record. Listen to what you say in this post "thesis" and "someone with my experience" . Give me a break, you of all people should know that boats are a personal taste from the heart kinda thing over supreme logic. Your at the point of insulting her with the "I know best " routine. I bet she's more bitter than you think, hell I've watch you do it and I couldn't keep my mouth shut about it. She just came out and denounced cats, and was very clear, it's done, she's firm, over.
Your right. On her very first post on CF, I was one of the few that respected her dreams and was supportive. This much time later I've become a pushy ass, but the message is sincere.

I am slowly learning that pleasure boats are "a personal taste", and not mission specific.
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