Really bad boat survey

[Mike Banks]

Did you buy this boat through a broker? I had something similar happen with far more serious potential for disaster. In my case the surveyor was incompetent and had done nothing but step aboard and have a brief look around. That cost six hundred dollars and nearly saw us shipwrecked.

I suspect some, perhaps many surveyors work for ensuring a sale for the broker--that is where they get their references. Some are just useless bastards who need to be struck from the register before they kill someone by consequence of a missed defect..

[JPA Cate]

Flipz1,

Don't bother with sandbags. Wait till you've got the dinghy, the outboard, the spare lines, the outdoor use fluids (turps, gas, o/b oil) stored in the lazarette before you start shifting other stuff. It is where you may also store cockpit awnings, all outdoor items.

Ann

[Suijin]

Originally Posted by Flipz1

My question to you guys is - if this normal? Most of these things I found in just a few hours of routine maintenance work getting ready to launch. Now I'm wondering if the guy spent less than 10 minutes on board and just wrote a lovely review for the money.

Any suggestions? And what might it cost to get the boat level or get the AC/heat ventilation right? This could be a lot of cash for things I should have been informed of before purchase.

As you can tell from the first three replies on this thread, there are surveys and then there are surveys. In the US, a "full survey" lasts about 8 hours, in water and out of water with sea trial and the operation of every mechanical system tested. If you paid for that, then it sounds like you got less than you paid for. But there are levels of survey. If you just paid someone to come and check the hull when the boat was on the hard, that's all you would have got.

Getting the boat level? Move stuff to the other side. Seriously, lol.

As to get the AC right, depends on what's wrong with it. Could be a lose hose clamp and a vent duct that fell off. Could be something more. Impossible to tell.

[Three Sisters]

Originally Posted by Flipz1

The boat was in the water for three days and I was charged nearly $1,000

You may have to repeat this several more times for the sake of clarity,

[Robert Tilbury]

Happy new year and well done on the new purchase ,
First realy apart from the aircon/heat and the Auto Pilot that to me are minor fixes (fix then you know your good to go for years )
Would these faults stopped the Purchase ?
I doubt it I know it wouldnt have for me ,,,maybe a haggle in the price for a few hundred dollars but thats about it ,,,
I hope you get her sorted and enjoy the heck out of a beautiful Yacht ,,,,,

can you post some pictures for us all to see ,,
Cheers and happy sailing ,

[Bean Counter]

I am surprised he missed the inoperative propane solenoid, I would have thought any surveyor would also do a simple leak test. Having failed to do just this would give me serious doubts about the quality of the survey in toto.

[Rorzech]

You weren't there to watch and communicate . Strike One
You didn't have a check list for him. Strike Two
You expected to make a silk purse from a sow's ear. Strike Three.
I think you got your money's worth. Be thankful that you don't need a new diesel engine, Mast, Rigging, or a new keel. You should be happy he left you all the little stuff so you can get used to finding troubles on your own. Give the guy a break. I think he covered the serious stuff. Be glad it didn't sink like Wicked Salty's new boat, right after launch.

[seabreez]

Originally Posted by crankysailor

Yeah but that can quickly land the customer on the wrong end of a libel suit... as unfair as that might sound.

I think not being there was a bad idea.. it probably worked as an incentive for a bad apple to not spend a lot of time on the boat and not being thorough.

I have to jump in here... I was present for my survey and the insurance company had ordered me to get a survey for the age of the boat. I wanted the survey done and the insurance company told me it was my responsibility. I called three surveyors and only got one who would come out this far for the job. I was understood that I wanted a good survey for two reasons: one for insurance and two for an evaluation for resale value. It was clear before I hired the surveyor that he was very competent and gave me two references. I checked and both references were good. The surveyor came in and 20 minutes later he was done. The surveyor did not want me on the boat for the time of the survey. I was surprised at this. The boat was stored on blocks. The surveyor came with no note pad. I supplied him one. He left and mentioned that he would write it up and come back to me. There were no top (new) on the boat (storage) Offer to him to see this, refused. No electronics (new) (storage). Offer to him to see this, refused. No compression done (mentioned that he was no mechanic). I had the black water tank redone (new) refused to take my pictures of the replacement. I had the water tank removed checked inspected and reinstalled, refused to take pictures, and the same was done with the gas tank. I wrote on the tanks the date of replacement or inspection. On his return, I had to pay before I saw the survey, I paid(very pricey). Surprise! I was not happy, under priced, many negatives, and the insurance did not want to insure for the price I wanted, nor the top nor the electronics. And further more I was told to fix an oil leak. It was lubricant to the cables that had leaked on top of the engine... Whow! I then hauled the boat to another surveyor that a friend trusted and got the survey redone, That survey was very good and under price of the first surveyor... go figure! Now ask me for a surveyor in my area...

[Fore and Aft]

Here in Australia surveyors do not inspect the propane installation. That's a job for a licensed gas fitter.
Your surveyor sounds very incompetent, but I can imagine he might have been overwhelmed looking at all the issues your yacht has after sitting on the hard for three years. That's why you need to be there to help him out. It is much easier if the buyer is there to help empty lockers and get the systems running.
You said you brought well so it sounds like it all turned out well for you.
Cheers

[Bean Counter]

For interest: in the USA at least
Marine Survey Checklist – Courtesy of www.sailboatsurveys.com |

[Bean Counter]

Originally Posted by Fore and Aft

Here in Australia surveyors do not inspect the propane installation. That's a job for a licensed gas fitter.
Your surveyor sounds very incompetent, but I can imagine he might have been overwhelmed looking at all the issues your yacht has after sitting on the hard for three years. That's why you need to be there to help him out. It is much easier if the buyer is there to help empty lockers and get the systems running.
You said you brought well so it sounds like it all turned out well for you.
Cheers

Because in Australia you can't sell a propane fitted boat without a Gas Certificate (In Queensland anyway). I presume the OP is not in Australia as he referred to Propane rather than gas or LPG.

[Cool Hand Luke]

Another vote for "be there for the survey." I know we can't turn back time, but as said before. Use it as a learning lesson.

I bought my 5-year old Jeanneau Sun Odyssey 409 a year ago and flew down to the BVIs just for the survey. I was in the Caribbean for less than 24 hours and that's coming from New Jersey. I also saw things that the surveyor didn't catch and he was happy to take the information from me and put it in the pre-purchase report.

But, the flickering LED floor lights and rusty 12-volt receptacle would not be replaced nor would a discount be given. Oh well. It sucks but it didn't make me walk away from. The vessel.

As for your surveyor, either he's lazy and he knew he could cut corners because you weren't there or he's incompetent or a little bit of both. Let's face it. It's human nature to start slacking when nobody's watching.

Use it as a learning lesson for your next boat. Start learning and start fixing your current vessel now.

And finally - CONGRATULATIONS AND POST SOME PICS!!!

[MarkSF]

Originally Posted by Flipz1

Great suggestion! I hadn't thought of simple sand and I'm fairly sure that's a lot cheaper than lead.

Don't do anything for now. 2.5 degrees is not a serious list, and you have no idea how the list varies with load. Is the head holding tank on one side? Is it full? Empty? Maybe the boat lists the other way when it's full. Same for water, fuel, load (sails), and so on. So do nothing, and monitor.

Adding useless weight is the worst possible fix. Weight - loss of performance. Move stuff around, or add a battery or two. At least they have another use.

[Island Time O25]

I could never understand not being there during the survey. For me it's like getting married without ever meeting your bride/groom.

As to the list of the missed stuff I don't think it is unimportant, especially given the fact that the list is long and all unnoticed items add up. OP's surveyor certainly did not pay for himself in his output.

That being said I still think all of the mentioned items should have been caught by OP BEFORE he ever contacted the surveyor. Unless you are offshore or in a hospital with no ability to get to the surveyed boat before it is purchased by someone else, I think if you don't have the time, money, inclination or the seller's permission to thoroughly go over the boat yourself before ever hiring a surveyor - you have no business of buying the boat at that time. May be later, when you have time and $$ for that boat.

[valhalla360]

The seacocks and solenoid valve are concerning that they were missed. Those are standard items to check and key safety items.

The other items are either very minor or not typically included:
- Engine issues: Engines are not normally part of the survey unless included separetly.
- Hinges/Latches: Assuming you saw the boat beforehand, why did you just notice the issue? Odds are he simply didn't close those doors, so never noticed. These are very minor, nice if they catch them items but not really something the surveyor is focused on.
- Heat/AC: If it turns on and air of the correct temp difference is coming out, it's working. The effectiveness of the duct installation is beyond a typical survey just like if he doesn't like the sail plan but the sails are in good condition, it's not an item normally noted.
- VHF: They typically just turn it on and flip to the weather station. They don't typically go thru each and every function. (radio check calls usually get a nasty response from the CG).

Good luck getting money back as they come with a nice disclaimer about how they can't find everything.

Just out of curiosity: What issues did he find? Was it an issue where there were so many other things that these slipped thru the cracks?