Raymarine's Customer Support Stinks!!

[gbgreen59]

Originally Posted by ramblinrod

A pro does not use wire nuts. That would be a schmo. A schmo

The work performed on my boat was done by a marine boat yard that houses at least a couple of hundred boats in the winter. They do have "qualified" service people. In my opinion, large marine places end up hiring people with low qualifications. I couldn't choose who worked on my boat. Obviously, that person was not a pro, but the work was done by a "reputable" marine yard. The work should have been overseen/inspected by a "pro", but it wasn't. All of the items I listed in my previous post were performed by a reputable boat yard that should have been professionally done. The work performed on my boat was not up to ABYC standards. It was very frustrating. I know many others who have had shotty work performed on their boat by other "reputable" boat yards.

It would be nice to know the qualifications of the people working on your boat prior to hiring the work out. Maybe I should have asked around the marina before having the work done. I am sure that you (ramblinrod) and your organization are reputable. I am confident that your work would be "top notch".

[DotDun]

Originally Posted by ramblinrod

Gimme a break.

The OP made no reference to age of equipment when asking a question pertinent to a new installation.

At the same time implying the company "took the money and run", also seemingly new equipment.

Only after reading through the thread did we find the equipment is so old, it is no longer supported, and yet top notch customer suppprt expected.

This stuff is like 10 years beyond its life expectancy.

so tired of hearing folks complain about the service of pros when they have never hired one. A pro does not use wire nuts. That would be a schmo. A schmo
is someone completely unqualified to perform work for pay, but is hired anyway, because the owner failed to exercise due diligence.

And that was my point! No break deserved! The OP told us in post #7, but yet you obviously didn't know it when you authored your diatribe in post #18.

[kudukuguam]

This problem appears to be solved but I'd just like to make a comment:

Over the years I have watched Raymarine be sold and resold (and renamed). This may be due, in part, because of being JRC's love child. I don't know. I try not to get involved in morality.

It is comforting to note, however, in a world that is constantly changing and confusing for us (the older set) that we can count on the traditional lack of compassion or competence from them. I think it may be an inherited trait.

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by DotDun

Yes, I've seen as many if not more problems from dealers/professional installations than DIYs. I was crew picking up a brand new sailboat with a friend. The delivery person was going over the boat systems and the friend asked "why doesn't the AP have 'wind mode'". The professional summoned his Raymarine engineer who very confidently answered, "This model AP doesn't support that!" I changed the unit from power boat mode to sail boat mode as soon as we left the dock, magically wind mode appeared.

Even Ramblinrod in the above post - he lambastes the OP about DIY installation when if Rod had even read the thread, the OP isn't asking about installation, he's trying to troubleshoot a problem with a most-likely professional installation.

Hire a pro so it'll be done right!!!

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by basssears

I have had decent success with the Raymarine Forums too... there are a few knowledge private people who respond there and there are actual Raymarine techs who respond as well, sometimes the responses are a little on the basic side but they're still responses which sounds like more than you're getting on the phone right now!

I joined the Raymarine forums as well when I had a question about connecting my Raymarine speed and depth to my NMEA2000 network. Got an answer same day from a Raymarine tech (maybe engineer?). The answer was actually quite detailed and technical enough I had to read through it a couple of times to get the details.

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by Terry107

If you think Raymaine is bad try dealing with B&G or Simrad one they have your money they forget you exist.

This is the exact opposite of my experience. In the last 12 months I researched and purchased a new Simrad autopilot. I had a number of questions before and after the purchase and called their tech support line a number of times. Every call except one I spoke directly with a very qualified tech within 3-5 minutes, most of the time in less than one minute. The one time I got a message that all reps were busy, left my number and they called me back in about 30 minutes.

The guys I spoke with always answered all my questions, didn't try to hurry me off the phone and completely understood all of the issues.

So far Navico (parent of Simrad and B&B) has been some of the best service and tech support of any company I've every dealt with.

Of course this is a US based opinion. Maybe different in other countries.

[ramblinrod]

Originally Posted by gbgreen59

The work performed on my boat was done by a marine boat yard that houses at least a couple of hundred boats in the winter. They do have "qualified" service people. In my opinion, large marine places end up hiring people with low qualifications. I couldn't choose who worked on my boat. Obviously, that person was not a pro, but the work was done by a "reputable" marine yard. The work should have been overseen/inspected by a "pro", but it wasn't. All of the items I listed in my previous post were performed by a reputable boat yard that should have been professionally done. The work performed on my boat was not up to ABYC standards. It was very frustrating. I know many others who have had shotty work performed on their boat by other "reputable" boat yards.

It would be nice to know the qualifications of the people working on your boat prior to hiring the work out. Maybe I should have asked around the marina before having the work done. I am sure that you (ramblinrod) and your organization are reputable. I am confident that your work would be "top notch".

That is my recommendation.

Before anyone boards or lays hands on your boat, ask to see their qualifications (certifications and experience) and commercial liability certificate.

If they have them, it means they are dedicated to, and have invested in, their craft, and they will be happy to present them because they have so much invested and it sets them apart from the schmos.

At the very least, the work should be done by an apprentice, working alongside, overseen and signed off by such a person.

You actually have to be leery of big yards. Size has nothing to do with quality. If their pay or employment conditions are substandard they will have trouble keeping skilled staff. This is why shopping low price, usually hurts you.

I generally give my customers good, better, and best options. All are proper and ABYC compliant.

My customer base is about 80% repeat and referral.

New customers are actually a bit of an issue.

About 40% are great. They need something fixed and are willing to wait their turn in the service queue, and pay a fair price to have it done right.

We are very careful to screen out the other 60%, as we know that in the end they will complain about some aspect of the service, regardless how fantastic it was. They end up going somewhere that doesn't have a full service queue, and will cut them a deal to get the work to keep the lights on a little longer.

[Flyingriki]

From a guy that has been all over:
But I constantly replace broken Raymarine gear with Garmin. I believe it is superior. The real kicker for me is that Garmin has many international service points with 5 day turnaround normal. I have waited months on Raymarine service

[ramblinrod]

Originally Posted by DotDun

And that was my point! No break deserved! The OP told us in post #7, but yet you obviously didn't know it when you authored your diatribe in post #18.

Correct, I am way too busy installing Raymarine products in customer boats to read through every post in every forum thread before responding.

I was responding to the OP. If it had included the most pertinent info, (I have X that is doing Y and I wish to confirm Z) I would have responded quite differently.

In that case, I would have indicated that if the device had been working properly for 20 or so years, it is unlikely that the wire gauge (which doesn't suddenly change) was the issue, and would have directed to measure the voltage at the battery, then the device, with all loads that could affect operating. If normal voltage at battery but low voltage at the device, check for high voltage drop at connections to isolate.

My original response was 100% for a new install and in fact for a repair.

If one does not know marine electrical basics, they should not be laying hands on it.

Only after significant research and skills development should one attempt to install or repair marine electrical and electronic equipment, especially that related to safety, such as navigation equipment.

In an emergency, if they "fix" something, they should have it inspected by a qualified person at the earliest convenience.

This would eliminate the plethora of unsafe wiring I see on 90% of the DIY work I inspect.

While it would eliminate the failed survey mitigation work I perform, I would be much happier knowing that the majority of boats on the water are safe, which most certainly is not the case as we speak.

[David M]

FLIR just purchased Raymarine. Give them some time to get things sorted out. Raymarine is entry level marine electronics...so they are going to have problems and lots of them. FLIR may not have anticipated the massive amount of service calls that they were going to get and so understaffed their call center from the beginning.

When the word gets out that their tech support is horrible and people start going to Garmin, Simrad and Furuno, FLIR may get their act together.

I agree that Furuno has by far the best tech support out there. Furuno is more expensive but this is also where you start getting into professional grade marine electronics.

[BandB]

Originally Posted by ggordon1250

Raymarine was acquired by Flir. They are not an investment company. On the contrary they should be providing better customer service. George G

Raymarine has long had the poorest customer service reputation in the industry. They were in serious financial trouble and in administration/bankruptcy. FLIR knew of their problems and has expressed plans to address them. I was hopeful. However, the sale took place in 2010. Garmin also bid to acquire them.

Some have reported the service improving. I don't know, but still prefer their competitors.

[BandB]

Originally Posted by gbgreen59

It would be nice to know the qualifications of the people working on your boat prior to hiring the work out. Maybe I should have asked around the marina before having the work done. I am sure that you (ramblinrod) and your organization are reputable. I am confident that your work would be "top notch".

Reputable and good are often not the same thing. If reputable, I'd ask who says? Who have you talked to who has used them and recommended them. Sometimes we see size or how long they've been around and then use the word, "reputable." I spoke initially with industry professionals, captains, engineers, yacht managers, even boat builders. Then I personally talked to them, interviewed I guess one would say. I asked hard and direct questions. I asked about the certifications and experience of those who would actually be working on the engines and those doing other things. I also searched for people who hadn't had work done right the first time to find out how it was resolved. I didn't find many, but one who was very helpful.

Most places also have mixed reputations when you get to those who have used those services. You'll hear things like "they're slow or expensive, but they get it right the first time" or "I like their engine people but think there are better painters elsewhere."

We're very fortunate by being in a great location surrounded by many excellent yards. Only issues with most yards around us are price and time.

[Roniszoro]

Thank you all for your input. I've got a good place to start (once the temperature here in South Florida starts dropping below 90*) With the exception of Ramblinrod, your input has been constructive and valued and I very much appreciate it. I've found this board to be a real value and try to be helpful myself when I feel I can make a meaningful contribution.

As to Raymarine, my problem is not with the personnel. I've had wonderful support over the years from the guys in Nashua, NH. It is getting to them which is the problem. (BTW, they never called back.)

Some thoughts/observations:
- I enjoy puttering on the boat. A professional will do a better job of just about anything I tackle and do it much faster, but I have fun working on my boat. Also, I sometimes go far afield so having done the installations myself can be of value if something goes wrong and there is no one to hire to try to solve a problem
- I installed the radar myself about 15 years ago and it worked fine until recently.
- The Raymarine chart plotter manual does have wire specifications but my question related to a buss that I thought I'd use
-As to the safety related to a non-professional installing a chart plotter, I will use it as a supplement. I have and use paper charts and have redundancy in GPS units, some in the vessel's system and some hand held. I also have a sextant, an accurate watch, the Nautical Almanac and HO 249 although I will certainly admit that I'm rather rusty.
- As to Ramblinrod's quote: "Correct, I am way too busy installing Raymarine products in customer boats to read through every post in every forum thread before responding", the responding before reading approach is certainly an interesting way of participating on the board.

I will try Raymarine again today. Perhaps I'll have better luck. Thank you all again for your input.

Capt Ron

[David M]

Of all the brands of marine electronics out there, I have read of more problems and complaints in this forum about Raymarine than any of the other brands by far. It's not even close.

I also don't like how Raymarine attempts to lock out its customers from purchasing other brands by having a proprietary language. I see that as an underhanded sales ploy. Their proprietary language has absolutely no benefit to its customers. Standard NMEA 2000 works just fine as does the more primitive NMEA 0183.

If I were to choose one brand, for electronics for pleasure boats I would go with Garmin. Of course picking one brand of marine electronics devices that need to communicate with one another rarely makes sense. With more commercial vessels, I would go with Furuno where reliability and customer support is extremely important. Yes, you do pay a price premium with Furuno for that reliability and customer support.

My very complex marine electronics system on the research boat is both Furuno and Garmin with 5 Airmar and 4 Furuno transducers thrown in to make my life even more complex.

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by David M

Of all the brands of marine electronics out there, I have read of more problems and complaints in this forum about Raymarine than any of the other brands by far. It's not even close.

I also don't like how Raymarine attempts to lock out its customers from purchasing other brands by having a proprietary language. I see that as an underhanded sales ploy. Their proprietary language has absolutely no benefit to its customers. Standard NMEA 2000 works just fine.

If I were to choose one brand, for electronics for pleasure boats I would go with Garmin. Of course picking one brand of marine electronics devices that need to communicate with one another rarely makes sense. With more commercial vessels, I would go with Furuno where reliability and customer support is extremely important. Yes, you do pay a price premium with Furuno for that reliability and customer support.

One nitpick, I think Raymarine SeatalkNG is language compatible with NMEA2000, at least according to Rarmarine and a couple of forum members with extensive experience with their gear.

The issue, as I think I understand it, is they use proprietary connectors (this I know for a fact) and a different way to power their backbone. Bottom line, whether it's language or other reasons, you have to use adapters and special cables and such to get Rarmarine gear to talk to standard NMEA2000 hardware. Unlike my Garmin plotter and Simrad autopilot that were totally plug and play.