Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 14-04-2015, 13:32   #1
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Groton, CT
Boat: Bristol 29.9
Posts: 236
Questions for a boat broker

We're researching our "next" boat, and we have our eye on one that is listed on Yachtworld. We've already gone to see it once to see if the headroom and berth length would work for my husband, who is 6'4". I had e-mailed the broker and told him we were still a few years away from pulling the trigger (which was true at the time) so we just wanted to see if we should keep it on the short list.

Now that we've seen it, we're thinking maybe we could move our time frame up. However, before we go to look at it with a more serious eye I was thinking I should e-mail the broker with additional questions about when certain items have been replaced, etc. The boat is almost 40 years old and is definitely overpriced, so I was hoping to get some information on the condition of various systems to support our offer (should we end up making one). The Yachtworld listing has a few details, but not a lot.

We bought our current boat - our first boat - directly from the owner through sailboatlistings.com, so we're not entirely sure how this next step would work with a broker (besides the fact that I'm not sure I would believe his answers given that he represents the seller - maybe that's too cynical). We would get a survey, of course, if we decided after the next visit to move forward.

I was thinking of asking the following questions, but was wondering what, if any, I should add or delete?

Has the standing rigging been replaced? If so, when?
How old is the running rigging?
Has the engine been rebuilt? If so, when and how many hours does it have since the rebuild?
Has the electrical system been updated?
How old are the batteries?
Are the thruhulls and seacocks original?
How old are the sails?


Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks!
__________________

__________________
Cthoops is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-04-2015, 13:50   #2
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Long Beach, CA
Boat: Tayana Vancouver 42
Posts: 1,853
Re: Questions for a boat broker

You might also ask about the age of the refrigeration, water pump and bilge pump. You should get as complete a list as possible of what is included with the boat such as how many dock lines, fenders, anchors and rodes, PFDs, dinghy and outboard, etc.

However, I wouldn't rely on information from the broker. You will have a surveyor and depending on the boat, an engine survey and a rigging survey. It might also be worthwhile to have a marine electrician go over your systems.


S/V B'Shert
__________________

__________________
Tayana42 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-04-2015, 15:22   #3
Registered User
 
ranger42c's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Maryland, USA
Boat: 42' Sportfish
Posts: 2,982
Re: Questions for a boat broker

Were it me, I think my going-in assumption would be that everything is original... and I'd develop an offer (or not) accordingly after viewing the boat and assessing condition for myself. (Original and not well maintained; probably no offer. Original and well kept, maybe.)

If, during that viewing, the broke is interested in selling the boat, I would expect any updates/rebuilds/etc. will be highlighted as positive sales points.

-Chris
__________________
Selby Bay, South River, Chesapeake Bay, USA.
ranger42c is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-04-2015, 16:01   #4
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: In Myrtle Beach, then southbound
Boat: Lagoon 410
Posts: 368
Re: Questions for a boat broker

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cthoops View Post
We're researching our "next" boat, and we have our eye on one that is listed on Yachtworld. We've already gone to see it once to see if the headroom and berth length would work for my husband, who is 6'4". I had e-mailed the broker and told him we were still a few years away from pulling the trigger (which was true at the time) so we just wanted to see if we should keep it on the short list.

Now that we've seen it, we're thinking maybe we could move our time frame up. However, before we go to look at it with a more serious eye I was thinking I should e-mail the broker with additional questions about when certain items have been replaced, etc. The boat is almost 40 years old and is definitely overpriced, so I was hoping to get some information on the condition of various systems to support our offer (should we end up making one). The Yachtworld listing has a few details, but not a lot.

We bought our current boat - our first boat - directly from the owner through sailboatlistings.com, so we're not entirely sure how this next step would work with a broker (besides the fact that I'm not sure I would believe his answers given that he represents the seller - maybe that's too cynical). We would get a survey, of course, if we decided after the next visit to move forward.

I was thinking of asking the following questions, but was wondering what, if any, I should add or delete?

Has the standing rigging been replaced? If so, when?
How old is the running rigging?
Has the engine been rebuilt? If so, when and how many hours does it have since the rebuild?
Has the electrical system been updated?
How old are the batteries?
Are the thruhulls and seacocks original?
How old are the sails?


Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks!

From a broker....Ask, ask, ask. Any and all questions are fair game. Answering questions is a very important part of our job. We do it every day. Just a few days ago I answered an email from another broker who had a client with a list of twenty some questions about one of my listings. Answered them all, even the one about why did the owner have a Danforth anchor when the new generation anchors are so popular. I believe brokers try to be as honest as possible in their answers, but remember those answers come from the owner who may not be as upfront. Granted, there are some less then honorable brokers out there, but usually the survey tells most if not all.

If you're really interested in the boat but don't want to put her under contract just yet, see if the owner will let you do an "in the water" survey that will determine her true condition and a basis in which to make an offer. Some will, some won't without the boat being under contract, which of course a full survey/sea trial would be in order. If you are not using a buyers broker you really should consider it. It costs you nothing and now you have an advocate looking out for your best interests in the deal.

Hope this helps a little, good luck and let us know how it goes...
__________________
In Florida headed south for the Keys, then north...
www.elcaminoblog.com
Sid at SailAway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-04-2015, 16:12   #5
Senior Cruiser
 
Cheechako's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Skagit City, WA
Posts: 19,342
Re: Questions for a boat broker

Quote:
Originally Posted by ranger42c View Post
Were it me, I think my going-in assumption would be that everything is original... and I'd develop an offer (or not) accordingly after viewing the boat and assessing condition for myself. (Original and not well maintained; probably no offer. Original and well kept, maybe.)

If, during that viewing, the broke is interested in selling the boat, I would expect any updates/rebuilds/etc. will be highlighted as positive sales points.

-Chris
Yeah, often the brokers seems to know little, unless the owner has specifically noted it. If he did it would usually be on the data sheet for the boat. Often. even then... you may know more than the broker remembers.

I would suggest a second look at the boat after you develop some good questions. If you are serious ask the broker if the owner could meet you. I've found owners have trouble keeping their mouths shut sometimes... which is good! or....Take a cell phone and take a picture of the registration etc... you can then track down the owner and ask directly.

Has the standing rigging been replaced? If so, when?

How old is the running rigging?
Running rigging condition should be obvious from looking at it.
Has the engine been rebuilt? If so, when and how many hours does it have since the rebuild?
Has the electrical system been updated? Are terminals on the panel corroded? Do they look old? Wires too?
How old are the batteries? Most have a date on top. Figure they last about 5 years , or less if not used much.
Are the thru hulls and seacocks original? Try opening/closing them.
How old are the sails? Look at some portion of them, look for stitching that is very worn etc. Also very soft flexible fabric is old.

High expense items:
Bottom blister history or currently.
Tanks that are going bad (especially if under the floor)
Sails
Standing rigging/chainplates
Keel bolts (if that boat has them)
Rudder issues
Water in the decks or core if a cored hull.
engine/transmission/shaft.
Evidence of water leaking in/portlites, hatches, deck to hull joint.
__________________
"I spent most of my money on Booze, Broads and Boats. The rest I wasted" - Elmore Leonard











Cheechako is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-04-2015, 16:22   #6
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: In Myrtle Beach, then southbound
Boat: Lagoon 410
Posts: 368
Unhappy Re: Questions for a boat broker

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheechako View Post
Yeah, often the brokers seems to know little, unless the owner has specifically noted it. If he did it would usually be on the data sheet for the boat. Often. even then... you may know more than the broker remembers.

I would suggest a second look at the boat after you develop some good questions. If you are serious ask the broker if the owner could meet you. I've found owners have trouble keeping their mouths shut sometimes... which is good! or....Take a cell phone and take a picture of the registration etc... you can then track down the owner and ask directly.

Has the standing rigging been replaced? If so, when?

How old is the running rigging?
Running rigging condition should be obvious from looking at it.
Has the engine been rebuilt? If so, when and how many hours does it have since the rebuild?
Has the electrical system been updated? Are terminals on the panel corroded? Do they look old? Wires too?
How old are the batteries? Most have a date on top. Figure they last about 5 years , or less if not used much.
Are the thru hulls and seacocks original? Try opening/closing them.
How old are the sails? Look at some portion of them, look for stitching that is very worn etc. Also very soft flexible fabric is old.

High expense items:
Bottom blister history or currently.
Tanks that are going bad (especially if under the floor)
Sails
Standing rigging/chainplates
Keel bolts (if that boat has them)
Rudder issues
Water in the decks or core if a cored hull.
engine/transmission/shaft.
Evidence of water leaking in/portlites, hatches, deck to hull joint.

I'd like to add to the above.. If you want to open and close sea cocks, DON'T do it yourself! Ask the owner and then if one snaps off in his hand and the boat starts taking on water it's his issue, not yours. Ask me how I know...
__________________
In Florida headed south for the Keys, then north...
www.elcaminoblog.com
Sid at SailAway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-04-2015, 06:29   #7
Registered User
 
denverd0n's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 3,948
Images: 6
Re: Questions for a boat broker

I would suggest getting Don Casey's "Inspecting the Aging Sailboat."
http://tinyurl.com/mvzo3jp

Compared to the price of a boat it is pennies. It will give you a very good idea of what you should be asking. It will also help you on your next inspection to determine for yourself if this boat is worth making an offer on, and worth spending the money for a survey on.

Good luck.
__________________
denverd0n is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-04-2015, 06:36   #8
Moderator
 
a64pilot's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Albany Ga.
Boat: Island Packet 38
Posts: 17,032
Re: Questions for a boat broker

I'm confused, you said the boats definitely overpriced.
Are you willing to pay more than market value for the boat?
__________________
a64pilot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-04-2015, 07:17   #9
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Groton, CT
Boat: Bristol 29.9
Posts: 236
Re: Questions for a boat broker

Quote:
Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
I'm confused, you said the boats definitely overpriced.
Are you willing to pay more than market value for the boat?
No. I'm just looking to gather as much information as I can about age of parts (before ponying up for a survey) so I can support my well-under-the-asking price offer.

Unless I'm mistaken, I think the offer comes before the survey? And then depending on what the survey turns up there may be further price adjustments?
__________________
Cthoops is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-04-2015, 07:44   #10
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Groton, CT
Boat: Bristol 29.9
Posts: 236
Re: Questions for a boat broker

Quote:
Originally Posted by denverd0n View Post
I would suggest getting Don Casey's "Inspecting the Aging Sailboat."
http://tinyurl.com/mvzo3jp

Compared to the price of a boat it is pennies. It will give you a very good idea of what you should be asking. It will also help you on your next inspection to determine for yourself if this boat is worth making an offer on, and worth spending the money for a survey on.

Good luck.
Thanks for the suggestion. We actually have that book - it's a good one! I'll definitely be rereading it before we go back for a second look.
__________________
Cthoops is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-04-2015, 09:21   #11
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Alberta
Boat: Gozzard 36
Posts: 86
Re: Questions for a boat broker

Also ask about the make, model number and age of the electronics (radio, depth, wind, speed, chartplotter, radar etc) ---as these not only can be very expensive to replace but also with constantly new technology updates can become 'obsolete' or 'aged' in a surprisingly short time. Also age and date since last recertification/inspection of any life raft ---recertification/inspection of a liferaft can be surprisingly expensive

Just my two bits
Good luck
__________________
foothillsailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-04-2015, 09:22   #12
Senior Cruiser
 
nautical62's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Live Iowa - Sail mostly Bahamas
Boat: Beneteau 32.5
Posts: 2,264
Images: 12
Re: Questions for a boat broker

The broker is simply going to ask the buyer to provide this information and the seller does not have your best interests in mind. Rather than rely on their word, I'd inspect what you can yourself. Look at the sails, turn the instruments on, turn the stove on, give the head a few pumps, use the windlass, take a look at he cushions, etc. I'd keep the questions to a few important things you may not be able to easily determine for yourself, like the engine, rigging and if the boat has blisters.

Most importantly, when you are serious about buying the boat, hire a good surveyor. That's the person who will give you the most professional, unbiased information.
__________________
nautical62 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-04-2015, 09:47   #13
Moderator
 
a64pilot's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Albany Ga.
Boat: Island Packet 38
Posts: 17,032
Re: Questions for a boat broker

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cthoops View Post
No. I'm just looking to gather as much information as I can about age of parts (before ponying up for a survey) so I can support my well-under-the-asking price offer.

Unless I'm mistaken, I think the offer comes before the survey? And then depending on what the survey turns up there may be further price adjustments?
Your correct, good luck, from my buying experience it seemed boats that the price was well over market value, the seller wasn't yet motivated and I was wasting my time. Maybe you will have better luck
__________________
a64pilot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-04-2015, 09:49   #14
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Seattle, WA
Boat: C&C Landfall 38
Posts: 255
Re: Questions for a boat broker

You should definitely ask if there's a prior survey that he's able to show you. Some sellers won't permit sending an electronic copy but will allow viewing of the physical copy on the boat. It's definitely worth it if you can. If there's been a survey by a well respected surveyor in the last 5 years, then there's a good chance you won't have any big surprises if/when you survey. If there are no surveys or only cursory insurance surveys, expect bigger surprises.

Your questions are good, but I would skip:

- How old is the running rigging? (you should be able to easily assess their condition yourself)
- How old are the batteries? (batteries are a regular maintenance item, and relatively cheap compared to any serious issues)

You should add a question about the bottom:
- When was the last time the bottom was redone or painted, and zincs replaced? (if it's been a really long time you can expect it to be pretty messy when you haul, and bottom jobs are expensive)

I agree with others that said you need to talk to the seller if you want a better chance of getting more questions answered accurately. In my experience buying a boat four months ago, even good brokers simply don't have that much time to answer and research dozens of questions - selling old, cheap boats (cheap relative to the brand new boats they sell!) is not where they make most of their money.
__________________
Blog: www.svviolethour.com
Tessellate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-04-2015, 09:55   #15
Registered User
 
Stu Jackson's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Cowichan Bay, BC (Maple Bay Marina)
Posts: 6,385
Re: Questions for a boat broker

In addition to that book, try this:

Boat Inspection Trip Tips - SailboatOwners.com
__________________

__________________
Stu Jackson
Catalina 34 #224 (1986) C34IA Secretary
Cowichan Bay, BC, (Maple Bay Marina) SR/FK, M25, Rocna 10 (22#) (NZ model)
Stu Jackson is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
boat broker

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Broker or no broker, that is the question. paulandharm Rules of the Road, Regulations & Red Tape 7 21-02-2013 18:36
'Do-it-yourself yacht broker' Never pay a broker again! Jort Vendor Spotlight - Great Deals for CF Members! 5 24-01-2013 10:40
If it's Better to Buy Through a Broker-to-Broker Arrangement, I Need a Broker YesIsail Multihull Sailboats 4 14-11-2011 10:00
Broker or No Broker ? Nick & LA Multihull Sailboats 12 10-05-2010 07:29
Broker or No Broker dingoman General Sailing Forum 8 26-02-2010 14:23



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:49.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.