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jimp1234 · 26-05-2019, 14:21

I need to replace some out of date fire extinguishers so in doing some research I came across what I'm calling "Next-Gen" fire extinguishers. The two products I've listed below use a potassium based chemical process to extinguish the fire, don't expire, are non-toxic, have a smaller form factor than regular extinguishers, and don't make a huge mess when deployed. Anyone familiar, or use either of these products? Do they meet CQ requirements? TIA

-Jim

https://maus-se.com/products/1001-1-maus-xtin-klein
https://elementfire.com/

**GordMay** · 26-05-2019, 14:43

I didn't see any information on the fire suppression agent, in those extinguishers.

FWIW: Class K fire extinguishers are filled with a complex blend of potassium acetate and potassium citrate, that forms a soapy foam, as it is applied to the cooking oil or other substance, quenching the steam, vapors, and the fire’s risk of re-ignition. These fire extinguishers are used in commercial kitchens, and can effectively combat fires fueled by cooking oils, fats, and grease. This extinguisher sprays its chemicals in a mist so the oils are not splashed. The mist also creates a barrier between the heat source and the oxygen that could reignite it.

Class K fires have certain similarities to Class B fires (those fueled by petroleum products), due to the fact that they both involve flammable liquids. Class K fires grow at a rapid pace when liquids and material such as cooking oils, cooking grease, animal fats, and vegetable fats serve as the fuel source.

jimp1234 · 26-05-2019, 16:47

Thanks GordMay. However, while these extinguishers may have something in common with the Class K extinguishers you mentioned, at least the elementfire unit is rated A,B,C,and K.

mickt243 · 26-05-2019, 21:58

Can’t say anything about the maus unit - can’t read (German, I think)

On the other hand, the “element” website is full of lies and impossibilities - whilst their unit may in fact work, the way they describe it cannot. Their description says that it spreads potassium nitrate on a fire.... potassium nitrate is the major component in gunpowder (not smokeless powder) and many fireworks - it’s a powerful oxidiser, I dare you, I double dare you to try and extinguish any fire with some - the usual result is a massive flare up, sometimes maybe an explosion.

**GordMay** · 27-05-2019, 04:20

Who’d a thunk? Not me, but live and learn:

Evidently, Potassium Nitrate (KNO3) IS being used in Water-based Aerosol Fire Extinguishing Agents.

➥ https://www.researchgate.net/publica...guishing_Agent

➥ https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/611...f2c0ed1b51.pdf

➥ Suppression Principle - Dynameco® Aerosol fire extinguishers
➥ https://www.firestryker.com.au/fires...-distributors/

wrwakefield · 27-05-2019, 10:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimp1234

I need to replace some out of date fire extinguishers so in doing some research I came across what I'm calling "Next-Gen" fire extinguishers. The two products I've listed below use a potassium based chemical process to extinguish the fire, don't expire, are non-toxic, have a smaller form factor than regular extinguishers, and don't make a huge mess when deployed. Anyone familiar, or use either of these products? Do they meet CQ requirements? TIA

-Jim

https://maus-se.com/products/1001-1-maus-xtin-klein
https://elementfire.com/

Jim,

We supplement with some MAUS fire extinguishers. I recently used one in anger on a small [but serious] electrical fire on a neighboring boat with excellent results [and no clean-up for him...]

To my knowledge MAUS do not count toward the USCG minimums. [But neither do our choice of offshore inflatable PFDs with harnesses...]

NordFire is the distributor in North America we purchase our MAUS units from. [Note the accessory 'funnel' for shooting a MAUS extinguisher through a small opening— like an engine room fire port...]

We supplement our AB and ABC extinguishers with MAUS because they do not require any cleanup after use. They work best in a closed environment as fire is suppressed as long as the MAUS smoke remains suspended in the air... [Fill it with the MAUS smoke and leave...]

We keep them in the several areas including the galley, sleeping areas, and engine room [to aid in escape in the event of a flash fire... The goal being to exit before the automatic Halon system activates...]

One trade-off is a MAUS extinguisher is all or nothing. Once you set it off it runs for 10+ seconds and is done. The one time I used one it projected 'MAUS smoke' a good 15 feet.

For a detailed analysis by a veteran cruiser, read this article on Attainable Adventure Cruising. [The small membership fee is well worth it to us...]

More details [and additional resources] about our fire fighting equipment and strategies are included in this blog post the Admiral wrote about our general safety strategies.

I won't hesitate to continue keeping some MAUS units onboard as clean supplements to the other fire extinguishers we have.

May none of us ever need them!

Cheers! Bill

PS: I attached the Maus SDS for the curious.

sailon46 · 27-05-2019, 11:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by mickt243

Can’t say anything about the maus unit - can’t read (German, I think)

On the other hand, the “element” website is full of lies and impossibilities - whilst their unit may in fact work, the way they describe it cannot. Their description says that it spreads potassium nitrate on a fire.... potassium nitrate is the major component in gunpowder (not smokeless powder) and many fireworks - it’s a powerful oxidiser, I dare you, I double dare you to try and extinguish any fire with some - the usual result is a massive flare up, sometimes maybe an explosion.

It’s potassium citrate not nitrate
Check your facts

boat driver · 28-05-2019, 05:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by sailon46

It’s potassium citrate not nitrate
Check your facts

um- no- it is potassium nitrate

stnick · 28-05-2019, 06:56

I installed a fire port In my ladder back board which opens to the engine.
My extinguisher is Haylon and i carry 3 regular marine extinguishers.
My back round is telephone and electronics .

**GordMay** · 28-05-2019, 07:06

DESCRIPTION OF OPERATION
Element is a manual, portable aerosol fire extinguisher (Class ABCK). It uses a Potassium powder jet (a unique method among fire extinguishers) that employs the vaporization of the powder in the environment followed by the condensation of its extinguishing substance. Element works by interrupting a fire’s chain of reaction (the “auto-catalyst” of the fire).
The extinguishing agent being used is composed of Potassium Nitrate, organic oxidizer, and plasticizer resin.
When Potassium Nitrate (KNO3) discharges from the extinguisher it vaporizes in the environment followed by the condensation of its extinguishing substance. When it reacts (inside the body of the extinguisher) it breaks down and the aerosol that is formed is made up primarily of free radicals of Potassium K+, of Nitrogen N (an inert gas), and water vapor.
The aerosol that comes out of the unit reacts with the fire. Potassium radicals (K+) capture the Oxygen of the combustion thereby extinguishing it.At the end of the extinguishing process the following is discharged to the atmosphere:As a solid: particles of Potassium (that have reacted with the Oxygen of the fire) having a size between 3-4 microns. These particles are invisible at sight and heavier than air. They disperse in the atmosphere and tend to deposit on the ground in no appreciable amounts. As a gas: As Nitrogen; an inert gas already present in the air we breathe at more or less 78%.As water vapor (and lastly) extremely minimal toxic by-products that are a result of the combustion process.
See ➥ https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/30...67154874779486

Conventional Class K fire extinguishers are filled with a blend of potassium acetate and potassium citrate

winschwab · 28-05-2019, 11:39

Does anyone out there use CO2 for non-messy extinguishers, particularly for use with an engine room fire port?

**GordMay** · 28-05-2019, 11:52

CO2 is an an asphyxiate, whose concentration at even 9%, would make a person unconscious within minutes.
Special care should be taken before, and AFTER, using in confined spaces.

hellosailor · 28-05-2019, 17:39

It sounds all peachy keen. And ignoring USCG certification, which mainly centers around how an extinguisher is mounted to the bulkhead, while I'm not seeing is UL or other certification.

Those troublesome people at insurance companies and the like actually DEMAND UL or similar certification to accept fire extinguishers. I would guess landside fire codes require that also.

So any manufacturer with a good product, who really wants to market it, starts out by getting UL certification in the US market. (And I'd expect whatever the local equivalent is, elsewhere.)

**GordMay** · 29-05-2019, 03:02

Originating in Italy, Element has been certified for sale in Europe by CE and TUV. Institutionally it has been tested and certified for use by multiple international military and police groups who have adopted it for active use.

In North America, Underwriters Laboratories (UL) is responsible for the certification of fire extinguishers. UL does their testing to a standard that contains a form (physical shape) component followed by a performance component. Because Element's form does not fit inside of UL's guidelines of what a traditional fire extinguisher looks like (i.e. compressed gas cylinder with a hose and measurement gauge) it is immediately passed over for performance testing. At present UL is being campaigned to update its standards to recognize the different form offered by Element and allow it an opportunity to be tested and certified.

Until the standards are updated Element cannot be used to substitute extinguishers in regulated environments that require a UL (or UL endorsed) certification. Element can however be freely used as an supplement to the extinguishers used where regulation exists.

There are no restrictions in non-regulated environments (car, home, personal garage, etc.) allowing Element to be used freely.