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Old 11-11-2011, 06:56   #1
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Production vs Custom Boats

It never seems to fail that once a boat has a problem, and it is a named production boat, that someone will start the "it's because it is a cheap made to a price point boat and we don't hear this about a Hinckley" response.

Do people ever just think about the odds of a problem when they make these statements?

Would saying that the number of front end damage to Fords compared to Rolls Royce mean anything? It seems to be the same type of statement.

There are millions of Fords at all different sizes and quality levels, while there are few Rolls total. Is it unexpected that you don't see/hear about many Rolls with front end damage (how many do you even see) cmared to Ford's?

Would a production model with say 20 boat problems out of a build run of 500 be better /worst than a limited production model having 2 out of 50? Bet you hear it put as 20 of X boats had a problem while only 2 of Y boats did. Probably no one ever even hears about the 2 at all. But it's is the same odds.

I bet that the total number of current and past mass production boats (Hunters, Catalinas, Beneteau, Jenneua, Pearsons, Gulfstar, Irwin, Erickson, O'Day, Cal, Endevour,, etc) greatly overshadow the semi mass producted/custom boats. So it would be expected to hear about more problems. But it doesn't mean anything.

Now I'm not saying that some mass producted boats aren't a little crappy. But everyone understands that a Chevy Metro isn't a Cadillac. Just because GM made both doesn't mean you can point to the Metro to call the Cadillac a crappy boat. And it doesn't mean that a car in the middle of the line isn't a very good car, becasue in the modern production line it is in fact a very good quality one. And the Metro is a pretty good car considering it's price etc. Why can not some believe that same is possible in boats?

This high end boats never having a problem is just a BS agruement and isn't really anything other than a class warfare type of statement.
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Old 11-11-2011, 07:11   #2
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Re: production verse custom boats

Ah wintertime. The time of the year when I get the dehumidifier out of storage, make sure all the heating systems work on the boat, and confine myself to the Engineering & Systems and Liveaboard portions of CF to avoid all the horse flogging and subsequent cat wrangling.
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Old 11-11-2011, 07:21   #3
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pirate Re: production verse custom boats

Don.... don't let it get you down mate...
Its a carry through of the land based elitism that makes folk re-do perfectly good kitchens just because their friend/neighbor has... or get the latest model car.. every year..
Moving onto a boat does not create a magical change of personality...
An Anus is an Anus still... and a Snob a Snob...
The point to remember is... a 21 ft production boat can go most places a 50ft Oyster can and or a custom super yacht...
Its so nice anchoring next to one in a far flung place... and so funny watching them pretend your not there... it offends their sense of superiority
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Old 11-11-2011, 08:19   #4
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Re: production verse custom boats

Quote:
Originally Posted by boatman61 View Post
Don.... don't let it get you down mate...
Its a carry through of the land based elitism that makes folk re-do perfectly good kitchens just because their friend/neighbor has... or get the latest model car.. every year..
Moving onto a boat does not create a magical change of personality...
An Anus is an Anus still... and a Snob a Snob...
The point to remember is... a 21 ft production boat can go most places a 50ft Oyster can and or a custom super yacht...
Its so nice anchoring next to one in a far flung place... and so funny watching them pretend your not there... it offends their sense of superiority

Maybe CF should retail these:-



The Frost Report T-Shirt from RedMolotov.com

So everyone knows where they are

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Old 11-11-2011, 08:25   #5
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pirate Re: production verse custom boats

Quote:
Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey View Post
Maybe CF should retail these:-



The Frost Report T-Shirt from RedMolotov.com

So everyone knows where they are

The 2 Ronnies.... Brilliant.. nice one DOJ
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Old 11-11-2011, 08:58   #6
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Re: production verse custom boats

Ahhh!!--for the good old days. Hancock, Haughtry, Williams, James,Horn, et al.
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Old 11-11-2011, 09:02   #7
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Re: production verse custom boats

Let it go Don, just let it go man.
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Old 11-11-2011, 09:04   #8
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Re: production verse custom boats

It is simply the "Law of averages"... more built the more you have a chance to her about problems...the fewer the less chance ..they all have problems sometime..just fewer people talking about them..so the less we hear...
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Old 11-11-2011, 09:09   #9
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Re: production verse custom boats

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Don.... don't let it get you down mate...

Hey I'm not down, other than the boat is getting winter hauled next week.

a different version of those shirts have potential!
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Old 11-11-2011, 13:26   #10
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Re: Production vs Custom Boats

Aloha Don,

I think I have to agree with you but you left out a few companies in your list that were notoriously bad and their reputation deserved it. I'll just let that lay there without naming them too for fear of coming under flak.

kind regards,
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Old 11-11-2011, 13:58   #11
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Re: Production vs Custom Boats

I've followed these arguments for a few years now - and for the most part, they're crap.

I agree with you Don. Production boats are fine.
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Old 11-11-2011, 14:20   #12
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Re: Production vs Custom Boats

hey Don
Just taking to someone about this a few minutes ago.. I'm doing a new interior package on a Bayliner 32.. over 3000 of these models were built in production and the story is that they only changed the design because it was hard to sell the new boats with the older models of the same design were out there..
He said that some bad mouth the bayliner but in my openion, they are probably one of the best built as the guys building them know how to lay up the glass, how its to be done, how the wood interior is to fit together without question.. as they have done it hundreds of times befor.........
Years ago I owned a body shop, and when looking for a painter, the person I looked for was one from "EARL SCHIBES"..
and you think WHY as they have a rotton rep for paint jobs.. You have to look at it at a different prospective.. that painter probably painted 10 plus cars a day and if he was there for more that 3 or 4 days, he's got the experance of painting 30 to 40 cars.. and if he worked for them for a couple years, can you imagine the experance he had, and where else could you find a painter that could paint a car and use less than two quarts of paint.. they have to be good...
so back to the production boats.. after awhile they are going to get it right or be out of business.......
Now the thing that chaps my hide..
Thats when someone starts knocking a production boat for the rigging or the winches.. The production boat has the same rigging as the high end boat and Lewmar is Lewmar, weather its on a Shannon or a Hunter.......
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Old 11-11-2011, 15:00   #13
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Re: Production vs Custom Boats

Positive, Sir.

They are all mass produced. Just the mass differs. Sometimes it is thousands, sometimes dozens. No virtue in low numbers if they are designed by lame designers and built by untrained workforce.

Moreover, there is a clearly visible tendency for the better built boats to match down to the pop-ups. Sad, but true.

True one-offs and small series customs suffer from their own set of troubles. Like not being able to benefit from rapid prototypization. Some companies try to walk around this issue by providing lines of 'bigger than ever' yachts. Say Helmsman. The newer ones have a good chance of being the better ones then. Alas, good chances tend to be wasted too.

A boat is a boat is a boat.

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Old 11-11-2011, 17:15   #14
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Have a good story that I think spells out an example of the kind of differences between semi custom and more production oriented designs.

We sold a Jenneau 40 DS, a wonderful design, earlier this year. During seatrial, there was some confusion, and the boom vang blew out. The vang was aluminum, and the leverage of the fully extended inner shaft tore through the soft aluminum outer shaft. It was the standard vang by US Spars which you will find on Beneteaus as well.

To complete the sale I tracked down a replacement vang for the owner. I first checked West Marine's catalogue. I fond a perfect replacement by ForeSpar which cost $800 which was stainless. I finally tracked down the exact replacement. Cost? $200.

If she was equipped with the ForeSpar vang which is standard equipment on Tartans for instance, the vang would not have broken. Then again it is pretty unlikely the situation would occur where the vang was blown out, and you can purchase four aluminum vangs for the cost of one stainless vang.
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Old 12-11-2011, 06:37   #15
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Re: Production vs Custom Boats

I better example is the use of a "skilled worker" who does something by hand. First just how "skilled" is the worker being used in a boatyard. What does "skilled" really mean and who says a worker has it? You can call any worker "skilled".

Can any "skilled worker" do a task better than a CNC machine?

"Skilled workers" get used by operations that are too small to purchase the CNC machine.
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