Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 25-01-2015, 06:40   #916
Eternal Member

Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 848
Re: Production Boats Fit For Blue Water

Quote:
Originally Posted by Polux View Post
On topic again: Mass production boats that have circumnavigated or sailed extensively and this time two Hunters with the same sailor, a famous one, Mick
Harker. He had three Hunters, started with a 34 that he sailed on the East US coast down to Mexico and up, passed to a Hunter 466 that was sailed extensively crossing several times the Atlantic and finally to his last boat, a Hunter 49 with whom he circumnavigated. He was obviously satisfied with Hunter sailboats and said nice things about them. About the 466:

ďMy Hunter has sailed through three gale force storms, It hasnít had a crack or a creak.My 466 is one of the best boats out there. Itís got a light displacement, itís fast, maneuverable, stable and solid. Iím so happy with my choice, I tell people about it all the time!"
Hmmm, funny that there's no mention of the rudder loss Harker suffered on his 466 enroute to the Marquesas... Not the most convenient spot to have a new one shipped in from the Hunter factory... :-)



As a result of that experience, he specified a complete spare rudder to be carried aboard his next boat, the 49...

I had the great pleasure of meeting Mike briefly in Miami years ago... A wonderful, fascinating, very self-effacing gentleman... But he was also an extremely savvy entrepreneur, and in becoming Hunter's 'Poster Boy' during the era when their advertising tag line was "We Go The Distance", I suspect he had worked out a pretty cozy 'deal' with Hunter that made it advantageous to continue his voyaging with that particular brand...

;-)
__________________

__________________
Jon Eisberg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-01-2015, 07:04   #917
Senior Cruiser
 
Kenomac's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Somewhere in the Adriatic Sea
Boat: Oyster 53 Cutter
Posts: 7,559
Re: Production Boats Fit For Blue Water

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Eisberg View Post
Hmmm, funny that there's no mention of the rudder loss Harker suffered on his 466 enroute to the Marquesas... Not the most convenient spot to have a new one shipped in from the Hunter factory... :-)



As a result of that experience, he specified a complete spare rudder to be carried aboard his next boat, the 49...

I had the great pleasure of meeting Mike briefly in Miami years ago... A wonderful, fascinating, very self-effacing gentleman... But he was also an extremely savvy entrepreneur, and in becoming Hunter's 'Poster Boy' during the era when their advertising tag line was "We Go The Distance", I suspect he had worked out a pretty cozy 'deal' with Hunter that made it advantageous to continue his voyaging with that particular brand...

;-)
Where in one suppose to store a spare rudder onboard? Doesn't seem very practical IMHO.

My wife commented as she laughed, "where does he store the spare keel?"
__________________

__________________
Kenomac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-01-2015, 07:20   #918
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Switzerland
Boat: So many boats to choose from. Would prefer something that is not an AWB, and that is beachable...
Posts: 1,188
Re: Production Boats Fit For Blue Water

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenomac View Post
My wife commented as she laughed, "where does he store the spare keel?"
And what about the spare hull. Must have one of those too...
__________________
K_V_B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-01-2015, 07:31   #919
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 4,824
Re: Production Boats Fit For Blue Water

Now Polux if you would have done your homework you might have avoided this example?? Probably not one of the stronger votes for offshore choices, never noticed Smack bring up this one, LOL. All kidding aside it does suggest that some form of emergency rudder would make sense on boats with these lighter built spade rudders.
__________________
robert sailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-01-2015, 08:06   #920
Registered User
 
Exile's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Land of Disenchantment
Boat: Bristol 47.7
Posts: 2,525
Re: Production Boats Fit For Blue Water

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenomac View Post
Where in one suppose to store a spare rudder onboard? Doesn't seem very practical IMHO.

My wife commented as she laughed, "where does he store the spare keel?"
Uh oh . . . now you've done it . . . again!

Regardless of rudder or other boat issues, it's a great story and impressive accomplishment, especially as it appears Mike had some physical impairment due to his hang gliding accident. Btw, Shake-A-Leg Miami is an amazing organization in the heart of Coconut Grove (Miami) that gets all manner of kids -- physically disabled or not, from the inner-city or wealthy suburbs -- out sailing along with all sorts of other skill-building activities. It's founder -- Harry Horgan -- collaborated with Freedom Yachts to design & build a fleet of heavily ballasted 20' daysailors with special seats & other gear to accommodate those with physical impairments. The video Polux posted was producd by Shake's "multi-media" dept.
__________________
Exile is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-01-2015, 08:57   #921
Registered User
 
Exile's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Land of Disenchantment
Boat: Bristol 47.7
Posts: 2,525
Re: Production Boats Fit For Blue Water

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
Oh my goodness...

Pollux, you are ignoring my basic question: Is there any evidence that this licensing actually has reduced losses.

This is the fourth time I have asked it.

I guess the answer must not agree with the hypothesis that you promote.

And again: Comparing pilot and driver licenses with sailing licenses is not valid, in that the risks to non-participating people is very large in the case of aircraft and automobiles, and very small in the case of offshore sailing. You say there is no difference, I say there is a hell of a big difference.

Not wishing to prolong this discussion, so unless some new info is posted, I shall withdraw.

Jim
Back to Jim's still unanswered question, it may be noteworthy that in the US where no licensing is generally required for recreational boating, the rate of boating-related injuries & fatalities has actually decreased. As one would expect, the majority of these incidents involve small powerboats & PWCs on mostly inland & protected waters, and of course alcohol consumption remains a significant factor. Where the US draws the line, of course, is any commercial endeavor, incl. taking paying customers out on your own boat, where you become contractually responsible for the welfare of others.

While this trend doesn't account for incidents which do not involve fatalities or injuries (e.g. successful offshore rescues), it does suggest the limited effectiveness of licensing or other gov't-imposed regulatory requirements for the relatively small number of boaters who travel offshore in sailboats. Instead, it is private insurance cos. who will impose any such limits -- for e.g. minimum crew requirements, specified safety gear, etc. -- if at all.

So in countries like the US & UK with strong traditions of individual liberty & resistance to gov't. interference, the law would require the govt. to demonstrate some sort of rational basis to justify the impositon of a licensing regimen or other limits on recreational boating (e.g. mandatory wearing of pfd's). From Dockhead's comments about traditions he's observed in some European countries, however, it doesn't sound like the gov't. is required to undergo such scrutiny. Instead, questions like Jim's can go unanswered, and regs. can be imposed based on Polux's mere assumption that licensing must be beneficial.
__________________
Exile is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-01-2015, 09:04   #922
Registered User
 
Polux's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Portugal/Med
Boat: Comet 41s
Posts: 5,593
Re: Production Boats Fit For Blue Water

Quote:
Originally Posted by robert sailor View Post
Now Polux if you would have done your homework you might have avoided this example?? Probably not one of the stronger votes for offshore choices, never noticed Smack bring up this one, LOL. All kidding aside it does suggest that some form of emergency rudder would make sense on boats with these lighter built spade rudders.
Well, we all know that some Hunter models had some rudder problems. That problem was with the 466. Mike Harker had not any rudder problem in his circumnavigation with the Hunter 49. Michael and Edi Walsh circumnavigated recently on another Hunter 49 and by the Horn also without any rudder or other meaningful problem.
http://www.yacht-sequitur.ca/









And since we are talking about Hunters we should talk about the Australian Peter Keating that had circumnavigated 3 times the last one on a 1984 Hunter 34. No rudder problems either.



He says about the Hunter 34:

"I went to the east coast of the usa(Solomons) to buy a hunter34 in feb 2007. Since then I have sailed the boat across the atlantic to Lisbon via the Azores, and then down and across the atlantic to west indies and panama and across to australia and tasmania.The crossing in the pacific was not an easy year(2008) but the little hunter 34 stood up to all ocean conditions, and apart from the weather helm problem (which makes self steering a problem) she performed very well...without breakages (except for the raymarine self steerer) and in comfort....

I,ve had 4 boats in the last 30 years, including the 104ft sundancer and have circumnavigated 3 times and I,d say the hunter 34 was one of the best little boats for money that you could buy... they are certainly tough and hopefully more of you owners will hit the liquid highway with greater confidence in your machine."
Polux is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-01-2015, 09:11   #923
Senior Cruiser
 
Kenomac's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Somewhere in the Adriatic Sea
Boat: Oyster 53 Cutter
Posts: 7,559
Re: Production Boats Fit For Blue Water

So... he didn't need to use the spare rudder? What I want to know.... Where did he store that enormous object?
__________________
Kenomac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-01-2015, 09:18   #924
Moderator
 
weavis's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: SEVILLE - MALLORCA
Posts: 9,401
Send a message via Skype™ to weavis
Re: Production Boats Fit For Blue Water

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenomac View Post
So... he didn't need to use the spare rudder? What I want to know.... Where did he store that enormous object?
Silly.
It was next to the spare mast!

__________________
- Never test how deep the water is with both feet -
10% of conflicts are due to different opinions. 90% by the tone of voice.
Raise your words, not your voice. It is rain that grows flowers, not thunder.
weavis is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 25-01-2015, 10:14   #925
Registered User
 
Exile's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Land of Disenchantment
Boat: Bristol 47.7
Posts: 2,525
Re: Production Boats Fit For Blue Water

Quote:
Originally Posted by weavis View Post
Silly.
It was next to the spare mast!

Some guys just HAVE to instigate!

I'm rather astonished this is the first we're seeing other examples -- other than Sequiter that is -- of Hunters doing long voyages. Or maybe I missed them. Not that I'm surprised they are out there doing it, but that their many fans who feel "bashed" have not publicized them on the forum until now. Maybe we gave Smack's Google skills too much credit.
__________________
Exile is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-01-2015, 10:38   #926
Registered User
 
Polux's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Portugal/Med
Boat: Comet 41s
Posts: 5,593
Re: Production Boats Fit For Blue Water

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
..
All of the above-named countries were dictatorships during much of the 20th century, and absolute monarchies before that (in Greece's case, a vassal of the Ottoman Empire), and have a strong tradition of rigid state control over what citizens do, and an absence of civil liberties. These were also all very poor countries until fairly recently (and since 2008, are rapidly going back to being very poor countries again -- these are exactly the so-called PIGS countries undergoing a sustained fiscal crisis, and in the case of Greece, reverse development), and so with very limited traditions of recreational sailing, with the partial exception of Italy.
....
I don't understand what Politics have to do with this and I will not continue with that but let me just correct you in what regards your medieval image of Portugal, Spain and Italy: all had constitutional Monarchies, has the ones that still remain in Europe, centuries before dictatorship. Portugal was even a Republic from several decades before Salazar. You should also know that when a dictatorship is overthrow by popular revolutionary movements what follows is big civil liberties...some times too much of that

Saying that Italy has only partially very limited sailing yacht traditions is very funny giving the number of sailing clubs, shipyards and Yachts around. Regarding Portugal our last king was an enthusiastic yachtsman and Oceanographer and the Spanish kings have a long tradition in Yachting owning and racing them.

Regarding what are very poor countries you have also a funny notion about that. For me very poor countries are countries like Liberia, Congo, Niger and many other African countries that have a GDP per capita about 25 times smaller than Portugal and very rich countries the ones that have 50 to 100% more than the US, like Qatar, Singapore, Kuwait, Luxembourg or Monaco. Regarding that list (GDP/capita - World Bank) considering 185 countries, Portugal is on 38th, Italy on 27th, Ireland in 12th, Spain in 31th and Greece is 40th. USA is on 10th place, not far from Ireland.

That denomination of "PIGS" was meant to be offensive when created but I am sure it was not your intention in using it and your economic vision of the situation regarding those countries, particularly Portugal and Ireland, is very far from actualized.

Both countries had a rough time and needed the intervention of a troika (EC, FMI, ECB) to put finances in order (to lend money at interests below the market). The intervention on both countries has finished, neither of them needs exterior help and are economically growing above the EC average, diminishing rapidly the unemployment tax, increasing exportation and the money interests for covering the deficit is the lowest in a decade.

Both countries have strict plans to diminish and finish with the deficit (plans that are working), went over big structural reforms with cuts in state expending in about everything. Contrary to what you say they are going up and not down.

Regarding Greece I don't have great hopes since they are going to vote on a extreme left party that possibly will have a majority (today) and nothing good will come of that for the Greeks.

Anyway what happened with Portugal and Ireland is going to happen with many western countries that are globally living about what they can sustain, increasing a debt and not diminishing the deficit. Ireland and Portugal were the first two to that have managed to control that. Certainly the so called "austerity" was hard but I am no sure that it was a bad thing to be the first to have to adapt to the new reality. Probably that will give them an advantage over others that will have to pass later by the same process.
Polux is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-01-2015, 10:51   #927
Registered User
 
Polux's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Portugal/Med
Boat: Comet 41s
Posts: 5,593
Re: Production Boats Fit For Blue Water

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exile View Post
Some guys just HAVE to instigate!

I'm rather astonished this is the first we're seeing other examples -- other than Sequiter that is -- of Hunters doing long voyages. Or maybe I missed them. Not that I'm surprised they are out there doing it, but that their many fans who feel "bashed" have not publicized them on the forum until now. Maybe we gave Smack's Google skills too much credit.
I don't understand. Besides the Hunter 49 Sequitur, that circumnavigated by the horn without problems you have also the Hunter 49 Wanderlust III from Mike Harker that also circumnavigated without problems. The Rudder problem on the hunter was on a previous boat, a Hunter 466, not with the Hunter 49 that circumnavigated and besides are you not forgetting this one?:


Quote:
Originally Posted by Polux View Post
And since we are talking about Hunters we should talk about the Australian Peter Keating that had circumnavigated 3 times the last one on a 1984 Hunter 34. No rudder problems either.



He says about the Hunter 34:

"I went to the east coast of the usa(Solomons) to buy a hunter34 in feb 2007. Since then I have sailed the boat across the atlantic to Lisbon via the Azores, and then down and across the atlantic to west indies and panama and across to australia and tasmania.The crossing in the pacific was not an easy year(2008) but the little hunter 34 stood up to all ocean conditions, and apart from the weather helm problem (which makes self steering a problem) she performed very well...without breakages (except for the raymarine self steerer) and in comfort....

I,ve had 4 boats in the last 30 years, including the 104ft sundancer and have circumnavigated 3 times and I,d say the hunter 34 was one of the best little boats for money that you could buy... they are certainly tough and hopefully more of you owners will hit the liquid highway with greater confidence in your machine."
Polux is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-01-2015, 10:58   #928
Registered User
 
Exile's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Land of Disenchantment
Boat: Bristol 47.7
Posts: 2,525
Re: Production Boats Fit For Blue Water

Quote:
Originally Posted by Polux View Post
I don't understand. Besides the Hunter 49 Sequitur, that circumnavigated by the horn without problems you have also the Hunter 49 Wanderlust III from Mike Harker that also circumnavigated without problems. The Rudder problem on the hunter was on a previous boat, a Hunter 466, not with the Hunter 49 that circumnavigated and besides are you not forgetting this one?:
No, no. I got the ones you posted Polux - thanks. What I meant was that this was the first time I had seen such posts, other than Sequiter that is.
__________________
Exile is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-01-2015, 11:02   #929
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Anacortes
Boat: previous - Whitby 42 new - Goldenwave 44
Posts: 1,666
Re: Production Boats Fit For Blue Water

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exile View Post
Some guys just HAVE to instigate!

I'm rather astonished this is the first we're seeing other examples -- other than Sequiter that is -- of Hunters doing long voyages. Or maybe I missed them. Not that I'm surprised they are out there doing it, but that their many fans who feel "bashed" have not publicized them on the forum until now. Maybe we gave Smack's Google skills too much credit.
I have seen a few Hunters out and about on open seas, but not a lot. Good friends in Mexico had their rudder fall out of their new Hunter entering Paradise Village marina in Puerto Vallarta a few years ago. I don't remember what specific model it was but it was not a 466. I am not a boat bigot for sure but some boats are a better bet for offshore cruising than others. The price of the boat is not the biggest factor regarding seaworthiness.
__________________
exMaggieDrum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-01-2015, 11:08   #930
Registered User
 
Polux's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Portugal/Med
Boat: Comet 41s
Posts: 5,593
Re: Production Boats Fit For Blue Water

And off course we cannot forget Richard Bennett that also on a Hunter 34 circumnavigated at about the same time the previous Hunter 34.

He says about the voyage and the Hunter 34:

"Now home and back with the family. To do the Atlantic singlehanded in my Hunter was great, and certainly challenging ( and rewarding!) I relied on the Radar (which failed 5 days out from Norfolk) and the autopilot ( which failed about 10 times during the crossing) and my sea anchor ( a para anchor that blewout also 5 days out from Norfolk.

The weather was a bit tough at the start as I got caught in the tail end of Andrew and had 38 kts true with 15 ft waves. The rain was hard and the autopilot couldn't cope so ran with the wind with the sea anchor out. Recovering the anchor found that 2 panels had blown out but it still provided enough drag to steady everything down.

The 34 performs really well in these heavy conditions like this and much better than trying to heave to or lying ahull...

..The weather from bermuda to the azores was also pretty poor with easterly winds up to 30 knots for 14 days. Eventually got to Horta after 22 days. Had a couple of times when the crests of waves went over the boat but generally the boat coped really well. On one occasion a wave hit the side so hard water sprayed inside the boat from the portlight gaskets but the hinges and catches were secure and it was just water pressure that forced the water through the hatch gaskets. (Bowman 12 x 5's)

The boat is a standard 34 with the 5'6 keel and B&R rig. I rigged the reefing lines so that they came to the cockpit. the only other mods are the addition of a IN cockpit dodger. The rudder is the original but reinforced with a sheathing of 2 layers of 2 oz GRP. The engine is the original Yanmar GM3 but have uprated the alternator to the 60 amp. I also fitted an Air-X windgenerator that gave usually only a few amps charging but did give 25 amps in 30 Kts. I turned the nav table hinges and added a nav table pedestal seat. I also strengthened the washboards (and added lines to secure them to the boat).

I had an Icom IC 718 SSB radio and the AH4 tuner which worked great. I was able to talk to herb all the way across and was downloading weather grib files every day. I also talked to my radio club in England every evening with 5 and 9 reports almost every evening.

The 34 is a great boat in my opinion. Structually I think it's built strongly and will withstand the ocean conditions without hesitation. The rig is big so reefing is required early but she goes really well in light conditions. The interior woodwork leaves a lot to be desired but its not structual and I intend to replace parts as I go along. ..."
__________________

Polux is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
water

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Production Boats vs Custom Boats seaturkey Monohull Sailboats 64 07-01-2015 07:23
Older, Higher Quality vs Newer Production Boats scevrog Monohull Sailboats 62 21-10-2010 03:23
Hunter 37.6 - Fit for Blue Water Cruising ? saltiepaw Monohull Sailboats 10 22-07-2010 14:12
production boats vs blue water cruisiers judithanne Monohull Sailboats 30 29-09-2005 07:53
More production boats BC Mike Monohull Sailboats 2 24-03-2005 18:29


Our Communities

Our communities encompass many different hobbies and interests, but each one is built on friendly, intelligent membership.

» More about our Communities

Automotive Communities

Our Automotive communities encompass many different makes and models. From U.S. domestics to European Saloons.

» More about our Automotive Communities

Marine Communities

Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

» More about our Marine Communities


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:49.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.