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Old 03-01-2015, 07:32   #76
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Re: Production Boats Fit For Blue Water

Perhaps a thread is needed titled: Blue Water Boats Fit for Coastal Cruising?? Seems there are very very few folk interested in a "production" boat for circumnavigating but quite a few folk who would consider a blue water boat for coastal cruising... even though the production boats would seem to fit the coastal criteria much much better that most blue water ones. Race cars and the family sedan will both go around a race track with the car designed for the track stomping the family sedan. Which one would serve the most folk in the most ways in most conditions? Not the race car.
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Old 03-01-2015, 07:34   #77
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Re: Production Boats Fit For Blue Water

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Originally Posted by TanzerTom View Post
Perhaps a thread is needed titled: Blue Water Boats Fit for Coastal Cruising??
Wouldn't that, by any definition, include all of them?

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Old 03-01-2015, 07:53   #78
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Re: Production Boats Fit For Blue Water

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Originally Posted by robert sailor View Post
I agree with some of your comments but I can tell you that while weather reporting has improved by leaps and bounds there are many times each year that the best meteorologists get fooled. Sailing in the trade wind belt is generally pretty easy but even in the South Pacific we and the weather gurus were surprised when we ran into a convergence zone that saw winds over 50 knots. A boat 30 miles in front of us was knocked down 3 times. Fortunately we were not that far out of Niue so only had to deal with it for 14 hours. We got our butts kicked going into New Zealand when a little low popped up out of nowhere so while I do really watch the weather I still plan for the worst in some areas we have sailed. Your Benni is a wonderful boat and is quite quick but I think if you average 150 miles per day on a long passage you are doing well..200-250 days are not in the cards unless you have some crazy current behind you. Also keep in mind you have a stick built boat which shares nothing with todays full liners although it wouldn't surprise me if your boat did last another 30 years.
Didnt say on a long passage, I said If something unexpected comes up I can be 4 to 5 hundred miles away.. under power, we motor at 7 to 8 knots, thats over 200 miles per day..
And we did spend time in Canada and Alaska and wished we had a steel pilothouse.. So I do have an open mind..
The way I look at it is like driving a 1949 ford 1 ton truck VS a 2014 Toyota Prius..
The truck will climb throu a ditch without any issues where the Prius would be leaving parts all over the area, but do we all go out and drive ford 1 ton trucks..NO, because we dont figure on driving throu ditches.... They are slow, safe, last forever,( almost), and are easy to maintain.. and can be used to haul great loads of gear, indrustable in any weather condition.. But why arn't we all driving them..
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Old 03-01-2015, 07:54   #79
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Re: Production Boats Fit For Blue Water

So what is the debate if we all agree that any production boat can and do cross oceans???
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Old 03-01-2015, 07:55   #80
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Re: Production Boats Fit For Blue Water

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Originally Posted by Julie Mor View Post
So is the question,
Or is it, "Can a production boat make an ocean passage safely?"

What a silly question -- yes oh and yes and yes it can -- and have been for a long time
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Old 03-01-2015, 07:58   #81
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Re: Production Boats Fit For Blue Water

I have no doubt that my Jeanneau can safely circumnavigate.

I however have doubts about whether the captain can
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Old 03-01-2015, 08:03   #82
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Re: Production Boats Fit For Blue Water

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Originally Posted by robert sailor View Post
So what is the debate if we all agree that any production boat can and do cross oceans???
Not sure, but it can probably be resolved -- for the OP at least if not others -- with a simple poll:

Ultimate Bluewater, Anchor, Mono/multi Poll - Cruisers & Sailing Forums
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Old 03-01-2015, 08:06   #83
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Re: Production Boats Fit For Blue Water

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Didnt say on a long passage, I said If something unexpected comes up I can be 4 to 5 hundred miles away.. under power, we motor at 7 to 8 knots, thats over 200 miles per day..
And we did spend time in Canada and Alaska and wished we had a steel pilothouse.. So I do have an open mind..
The way I look at it is like driving a 1949 ford 1 ton truck VS a 2014 Toyota Prius..
The truck will climb throu a ditch without any issues where the Prius would be leaving parts all over the area, but do we all go out and drive ford 1 ton trucks..NO, because we dont figure on driving throu ditches.... They are slow, safe, last forever,( almost), and are easy to maintain.. and can be used to haul great loads of gear, indrustable in any weather condition.. But why arn't we all driving them..
I hear ya! The real long term sailors that travel all over the world and sometimes around the great Capes rarely if ever use the modern cheaper production boats and I expect that the choices they make are closer to your one ton truck although many of them want to have it all and choose very well built boats that are both very strong and fast to boot. For most folks these days a trip around the Caribbean and maybe over to the Med and back is about as much sailing as they want to do and the large cheaper production boats will handle this with few problems in the short run so why bother spending the big bucks? Well some people have the big bucks and so they enjoy owning a much better built boat and others have a need to own a much better built boat because of the mission they have chosen as in, areas less traveled. Great world when we have so many choices! Happy new Year, R
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Old 03-01-2015, 08:28   #84
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Re: Production Boats Fit For Blue Water

Another Oceanis, this time a smaller one a 393 that circumnavigated, this one with a well known sailor on these parts:
http://ourlifeatsea.com/mark.html

He says about his boat:

"Our boat, the beautiful Sea Life is a Beneteau 393. She is 39 feet (11.9 meters). She is a spacious owners version with 2 cabins and 2 heads. Sea Life is a very beamy (wide) boat with a spacious cockpit perfect for catching up with friends both new and old. We have 12 opening hacthes, with an extra 8 windows and a large companion way which light the sunshine and ocean breeze flow through. We have loads and loads of storage space for provisions and 4 HUGE lazerettes (3 deep enough for Nic to disappear in standing up). She is a very fast and dry boat at sea, very comfortable at anchor and underway.....we just love her so much....we even give her cuddles...and she likes that!"



Some more information regarding the choice of a boat for cruising extensively given by this circumnavigator and living aboard cruiser on an interview:

With the benefit of hindsight, what are the boat selection criteria you would use to purchase a boat for long term cruising?

"We were extremely lucky to be able to buy a production boat ex-charter. Production boats have put good cruising boats at a price-point low enough so many people can set off, and ex-charter boats are even cheaper."
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Old 03-01-2015, 08:33   #85
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Re: Production Boats Fit For Blue Water

Quote:
Originally Posted by TanzerTom View Post
Perhaps a thread is needed titled: Blue Water Boats Fit for Coastal Cruising?? Seems there are very very few folk interested in a "production" boat for circumnavigating but quite a few folk who would consider a blue water boat for coastal cruising... even though the production boats would seem to fit the coastal criteria much much better that most blue water ones. Race cars and the family sedan will both go around a race track with the car designed for the track stomping the family sedan. Which one would serve the most folk in the most ways in most conditions? Not the race car.
That exactly is the point to view. I think the discussion is useless as one who wants to buy a boat should stick his damn nose quite deep in the facts.

Let me give you some:

1.) as a producer what would I want?
a.) reducing production cost as much as possible (Hullthickness 1980 30mm, now 6-8mm i.E.)
b.) satisfy my customers as much as possible
ba.) enable safe? cruiser-racing getting them +10knots for sportsmans (finn keel, skiff underwater design for speed)
bb.) icreasing comfort to the standards of luxury mobile homes (increasing width and height, 2 wheels, aft bathing platform, blade rudder for perfect rudder control)

2.) as charter crew - mainly at coastal waters (95% of the crew stays there)
a.) well much of the designs the manufacturers provide.
b.) cold beer at any time
c.) hot shower at 250l/each
ca.) a wellness hole instead of a toilet bath shower something
cb.) rooms instead of cabins + tv-sets and aircondition
cc.) the above on a <30ft boat to reduce the charter fees.
cd.) sails - ahm yes up with that something all the day we want to live our adventure - nothing more (skippers fault if the wind is < 3 knots)

---------------------------
So as a charter skipper in croatian water (Adriatic, Med) I faced this about ten years and it is ok for me - if it is ok for the crew in coatal waters.
---------------------------
As a romatic dreamer I bought my own ship this year:
Vagabond 47 ketch, long keel, 20 tons - hull thickness above water 20mm, below water from 25mm to 40mm increasing. Middle cockpit and Pilothouse
- yes I have to renew a lot including steps astern to fix the gangway in 4 positions
- no bathing platform
- sturdy beast below 10 knots <= 3 knots stw .... unsteerable
- bowthruster required to steer her in reverse

safety conclusions:
had 60knots at a mistral at sardignia - of course downwind - what else and the ship showed me that it liked it... was like sitting in a cinema and terrific nice to sleep with her movements. genny 6m out and main 2 reefs and no more that a few times 25° at heel

A lot of same experiences in Croatia with Beneteaus and Bavarias with forces up to 60knots alike. Sorry folks above 35knots I am going to fell uncomfortable with these constructions hammering in the waves rolling nervous with 3-4 reefs in the furlingmain and just a meter of the genny out.

rigging: today 7-8mm for 120mē, mine 12mm
----------------
Well I am glad to have some sort of traditional ship wit 47' to liveaboard.
Would not consider less than 40ft on any boat I want to live on an do some bluewater cruising.

Fact even with the V47 middle cockpit the last of three 8m sisters kissed my back once.

My conclusion:
I am so glad to have a real Bluewater Yacht Builders SHIP and I never ever will look at another boat as long as I can afford her!

fair winds and clear skies - willi
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Old 03-01-2015, 08:34   #86
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Re: Production Boats Fit For Blue Water

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Hey Smack. I thought you must have been banned or off sailing, actually leaning more to the banned. Happy new year to you and the boys.

Sent from my GT-N7105T using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
Heh-heh. I do tend to nick a ban here and there, but alas I'm still around delighting the unwashed masses...until they go off the handle and get my damn thread locked.

Anyway, same to you Simon! Cheers!
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Old 03-01-2015, 08:39   #87
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Re: Production Boats Fit For Blue Water

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Originally Posted by chuckr View Post
Smackdaddy and a few others got it right me thinks.. lots of dockqueens and armchair sailors have for a long time told us we do not have the right boat, equipment, costs, you name it.

i guess going on 8 years now as 24/7 cruisers who have done most of the caribbean, a 2 person atlantic crossing and now year 2 in the med (and by the way did over 3,000nm last year) we should get that perfect bluewater boat -- not.

we love our Jeanneau ds40 and would take her anywhere but then again what do we know.
Exactly!!! If one were to believe that crowd, your boat should have fallen apart and sunk 3-4 years ago. It's ridiculous.

BTW - I love the Jeanneau DS. Nice ride.
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Old 03-01-2015, 08:40   #88
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Re: Production Boats Fit For Blue Water

Come on, back with the straw man argument again. Please show me where anyone on this forum has ever said production boats are not suited for "blue water" or passage making. I've never seen it. As has been said in this thread and elsewhere ad nauseum, it's the crew not the boat. Hugo Vihlen went transat in a 6' boat long ago. The record is now 3' 11". People have crossed in kayaks and rowboats, and my friend Jordan makes regular long ocean passages in small rowboats. Any boat at all can do it, it's just a question of for how long, with how much maintenance, and with what sort of comfort factor. Not everybody is a Tom McNally.


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Old 03-01-2015, 08:44   #89
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Re: Production Boats Fit For Blue Water

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Some mobile homes are better built than some of the "production boats for blue water" being mentioned here.
Which ones?
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Old 03-01-2015, 08:46   #90
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Re: Production Boats Fit For Blue Water

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Originally Posted by Kenomac View Post
No Julie, on these kinds of threads is more my boat X is as good as your boat Y even though I only spent Z.
Actually, that's not right. On these kinds of threads it's typically - "my boat X is better than your boat Y because I spent Z".

Julie - boatman and randyon answered your question best above. Listen to them. They know.
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