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Old 05-01-2015, 18:47   #511
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Re: Production Boats Fit For Blue Water

With all the respect Pol, if a Bavaria salesman or CEO say that they last 15 years and laugh at the possibility of a early failure , that guy is a GENUINE Moron in my book....
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Old 05-01-2015, 18:58   #512
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Re: Production Boats Fit For Blue Water

Cant resist, he he, totally off topic, but i let you think where they fit in this Bavaria the real backstay.... lifelines??
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Old 05-01-2015, 19:01   #513
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Re: Production Boats Fit For Blue Water

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You have just confirmed what I said. When I talked to the maintenance Bavaria guys to know if a 5 year old Bavaria needed new seacocks they laugh at the idea and as you say with reason, since they would last 3 times more. That explains also why my old Bavaria, now with 13 years has yet the same seacocks.
According to a prior post by Dave/goboatingnow, this discrepancy in the life of brass seacocks may have more to do with marina ac systems in the US vs. Europe & their respective levels of electrolysis. I hope I'm restating what he said correctly. Still, it seems like there's broad consensus that bronze or Marelon are more desirable, and the CE/ISO std. will soon be amended accordingly. Unfortunately, the fact remains that brass is cheaper and dangerousy susceptible to failure in some areas of the world. This is probably just another example of building a boat to a price point, but that's just one of the trade-offs in buying a lower-end boat. The upside is that these boats are more affordable to a greater number of people, but only so long as they are aware.
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Old 05-01-2015, 19:05   #514
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Re: Production Boats Fit For Blue Water

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Cant resist, he he, totally off topic, but i let you think where they fit in this Bavaria the real backstay.... lifelines??
I know its the backstay Neil because I have seen them but as I recall they are split. Even so its bloody scarey how lightly built some of those boats are.
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Old 05-01-2015, 19:17   #515
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Re: Production Boats Fit For Blue Water

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I know its the backstay Neil because I have seen them but as I recall they are split. Even so its bloody scarey how lightly built some of those boats are.
What size of boat was that backstay on? There is no evidence of any chain plate worthy of the name.

Next time I'm at the Miami boat show I'm going to look at these issues. That's almost negligent to send a boat out with that kind of rigging.

Very scary.

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Old 05-01-2015, 19:20   #516
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Re: Production Boats Fit For Blue Water

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Not need anything?? 3-4 additional years with almost no maintenance on a boat that's already 5 years old?? We are talking about a BOAT here, no?

And so are you saying that mass-produced boats can depreciate to half their original value in 5 years? If so, then a guy like Smack who's dreaming of buying a new one for $300K-plus and then trading in (before stuff starts to break) will have to come up with another $150K every 5 years? That's $30K/year just in depreciation. Probably better off paying on a loan and, yes, buying used vs. new.
Yes, all that is true and no offense bu contrary to you I have experience with that. The first 5 years are the ones where a sailboat takes a bigger depreciation and normally are not the less expensive mass production boats that take the bigger hit but more expensive boats.

A new boat in what regards money is always a bad business, but if you have the money, nothing like having a new boat, the one you dreamed with, the best in what regard the state of the art. I don't know about you but regarding me it is the same with a motorcycle or a car. Nothing like a new one... and also a bad business in what regards money.

I bought a new Bavaria 36 in 2002 and I sold it 6 years later. I did on it only regular maintenance that on a new boat is about bottom paint and regular engine and SD maintenance.
No problems with anything except some pieces of the autopilot I had to replace and a thermostat for the freezer and that was about all. The new owner tells me that the boat still has the same sails and that he had no problems with the boat till now, except a problem with an autoprop propeller that did not come with the boat anyway. The boat had about 18000nm and about 2000 hours on the engine. I sold it for about half the price that it had costed me (lots of extras that you cannot get return when you sell the boat, about 50000 euros of them)

In 2012 I bought a Comet 41s with 5 years (600 hours on the engine) that costed new about 300000 euros for 150 000 euros. Made the 2012, 2013 and 2014 seasons, about 7500nm and regarding maintenance till now, if we except some modifications I made, it was antifouling, checking the rudder and normal inexpensive maintenance on the engine, mostly made by me.

I know of more friends with similar experiences, some others with less luck, but generally just small things. So yes, it is about it. If you buy a boat with 5 years and in almost new condition you can expect 3 or 4 years almost maintenance free.
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Old 05-01-2015, 19:32   #517
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Re: Production Boats Fit For Blue Water

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Yes, all that is true and no offense bu contrary to you I have experience with that. The first 5 years are the ones where a sailboat takes a bigger depreciation and normally are not the less expensive mass production boats that take the bigger hit but more expensive boats.

A new boat in what regards money is always a bad business, but if you have the money, nothing like having a new boat, the one you dreamed with, the best in what regard the state of the art. I don't know about you but regarding me it is the same with a motorcycle or a car. Nothing like a new one... and also a bad business in what regards money.

I bought a Bavaria 36 in 2002 and I sold it 6 years later. I did on it only regular maintenance that on a new boat is about bottom paint and regular engine and SD maintenance.
No problems with anything except some pieces of the autopilot I had to replace and a thermostat for the freezer and that was about all. The new owner tells me that the boat still has the same sails and that he had no problems with the boat till now, except a problem with an autoprop propeller that did not come with the boat anyway. The boat had about 18000nm and about 2000 hours on the engine. I sold it for about half the price that it had costed me (lots of extras that you cannot get return when you sell the boat, about 50000 euros of them)

In 2012 I bought a Comet 41s with 5 years (600 hours on the engine) that costed new about 300000 euros for 150 000 euros. Made the 2012, 2013 and 2014 seasons, about 7500nm and regarding maintenance till now, if we except some modifications I made, it was antifouling, checking the rudder and normal inexpensive maintenance on the engine, mostly made by me.

I know of more friends with similar experiences, some others with less luck, but generally just small things. So yes, it is about it. If you buy a boat with 5 years and in almost new condition you can expect 3 or 4 years almost maintenance free.
OK, I don't have the experience with this as you say, and you claim you do. Fair enough. I'm just surprised with regard to both the level of depreciation and lack of maintenance. I suppose buying a boat with fewer systems helps with the latter. I did not have the wisdom to do that, but I must confess to enjoying my creature comforts & electronic gizmos. If nothing else this is another good example of the trade-offs -- pro & con -- of buying a mass-produced boat.
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Old 05-01-2015, 19:33   #518
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Re: Production Boats Fit For Blue Water

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What size of boat was that backstay on? There is no evidence of any chain plate worthy of the name.

Next time I'm at the Miami boat show I'm going to look at these issues. That's almost negligent to send a boat out with that kind of rigging.

Very scary.

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Come on, Hunters don't have ANY backstay. This is an improvement!


(sorry, had to go there!)
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Old 05-01-2015, 19:36   #519
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Re: Production Boats Fit For Blue Water

Its just me who notice the new Minaret Avatar image?

Looks like a big Nauticat Lol!!!
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Old 05-01-2015, 19:41   #520
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Re: Production Boats Fit For Blue Water

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Its just me who notice the new Minaret Avatar image?

Looks like a big Nauticat Lol!!!
NICE! Looks more like a sailing ship vs. a mere "yacht!"
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Old 05-01-2015, 19:42   #521
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Re: Production Boats Fit For Blue Water

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Yes, all that is true and no offense bu contrary to you I have experience with that. The first 5 years are the ones where a sailboat takes a bigger depreciation and normally are not the less expensive mass production boats that take the bigger hit but more expensive boats.

A new boat in what regards money is always a bad business, but if you have the money, nothing like having a new boat, the one you dreamed with, the best in what regard the state of the art. I don't know about you but regarding me it is the same with a motorcycle or a car. Nothing like a new one... and also a bad business in what regards money.

I bought a new Bavaria 36 in 2002 and I sold it 6 years later. I did on it only regular maintenance that on a new boat is about bottom paint and regular engine and SD maintenance.
No problems with anything except some pieces of the autopilot I had to replace and a thermostat for the freezer and that was about all. The new owner tells me that the boat still has the same sails and that he had no problems with the boat till now, except a problem with an autoprop propeller that did not come with the boat anyway. The boat had about 18000nm and about 2000 hours on the engine. I sold it for about half the price that it had costed me (lots of extras that you cannot get return when you sell the boat, about 50000 euros of them)

In 2012 I bought a Comet 41s with 5 years (600 hours on the engine) that costed new about 300000 euros for 150 000 euros. Made the 2012, 2013 and 2014 seasons, about 7500nm and regarding maintenance till now, if we except some modifications I made, it was antifouling, checking the rudder and normal inexpensive maintenance on the engine, mostly made by me.

I know of more friends with similar experiences, some others with less luck, but generally just small things. So yes, it is about it. If you buy a boat with 5 years and in almost new condition you can expect 3 or 4 years almost maintenance free.
It certainly depends on how you use a boat, If you are a holiday cruiser things are going to last longer because you pick and choose your days to sail with many long rests in between.
If you take the same boat offshore on a long passage I can pretty much guaranty that your list of fix its will be much longer and more involved. Sailing 24/7 for weeks at a time is just hard on boats period.
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Old 05-01-2015, 19:49   #522
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Re: Production Boats Fit For Blue Water

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Come on, Hunters don't have ANY backstay. This is an improvement!


(sorry, had to go there!)
You mean it's a modified B&R rig?

Cool!


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Old 05-01-2015, 19:53   #523
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Re: Production Boats Fit For Blue Water

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Everybody is concerned with that and with seacoks too if that was just such a big problem as they wanted to make of it. Around here we call that sensationalism, a good way to sell magazines to the ones that are mostly chair sailors.
Au fil des milles - Bienvenue !

By the way, an old First 30 and a young French couple (Claire and GaŽtan) circumnavigating for 3 years on Ty Punch:

Ty Punch ... on Vimeo



Saint Malo sailors This year I sailed with a couple of Saint Malo sailors, two doctors just a bit younger then me sailing also on a First 30. Dam good sailors...I was always worried with the kind of weather the took with their boat. It seemed they were able to sail with the same kind of weather I sailed, just slower.

They did not like the slower part of it (I sailed later from the anchorage and waited for them for hours on the next one). Next year it will be fun: they are looking for a used Comet 41s to trade for the First
I love seeing these younger sailors out doing it. What a great way to spend some of your youth.
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Old 05-01-2015, 19:58   #524
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Re: Production Boats Fit For Blue Water

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I love seeing these younger sailors out doing it. What a great way to spend some of your youth.
Are we back to discussing the swinger's thread again?? Now Weavis will really need a new computer!!
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Old 05-01-2015, 20:20   #525
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Re: Production Boats Fit For Blue Water

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Its just me who notice the new Minaret Avatar image?

Looks like a big Nauticat Lol!!!



It's actually my old avvie. Was worn out on shark girl. Many mods to the 'house since that pic, including a nice helm chair (Zwaardvis), raised the front dash 1" to build the plenum box for the defrosters (hydronic), removed the old backup radar and installed an iPad on a mount in its place (can now use inside or outside helm with GoPro on the rail when docking), etc etc. But yup, she's a big ol' Nauticat!
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