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Old 05-01-2015, 12:07   #406
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Re: Production Boats Fit For Blue Water

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Originally Posted by Polux View Post
Contrary to other EC countries they also don't need boat licences to sail so that goes with liberty package that some other countries see as irresponsibility.
Not all the other EU countries.. Thou there was talk about licences couple of years ago in Finland but none required...
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Old 05-01-2015, 12:36   #407
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Re: Production Boats Fit For Blue Water

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Originally Posted by Polux View Post
I could but I don't want. I am fed up with you asking about confirmation regarding what I say. You should know UK is not properly EC, I mean they are in but they have a foot in other out and may probably go out as a result of a referendum they plan to make. Contrary to other EC countries they also don't need boat licences to sail so that goes with liberty package that some other European countries see as irresponsibility.
HOld hard there.

The UK is part of the EEC. I pay EEC contributions and abide by EEC laws in Britain.

Factual errors like this (and several others) have deleted you from my list of 'go to' guys.

Why should I take your word for it? Who are you that I should entrust my boating knowledge and information base to? Your performance in the facts dept of late has been less than stellar.

Sorry, Either you have the facts to back up your statements, which in this instance, and in several others, is totally incorrect and cannot be rectified with a half baked excuse as above....

Im in medicine. If I gave you false information that could easily be checked.... believe it or not on the internet....... how long would I have patients?

Being well informed is one thing. Blustering your way through an excuse is another.

I come here to get the facts. You have let me down. Get a grip man and supply them or please stop with the drivel.
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Old 05-01-2015, 12:50   #408
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Re: Production Boats Fit For Blue Water

Lol, whilst there will be a few of us who might wish to be out of the EU, sadly we are in for a while yet. Today the Dailymail (always an authoritive paper) has the PM looking for the UK to be part of the EUs future.
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Old 05-01-2015, 12:54   #409
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Re: Production Boats Fit For Blue Water

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Originally Posted by weavis View Post
HOld hard there.

The UK is part of the EEC. I pay EEC contributions and abide by EEC laws in Britain.

Factual errors like this (and several others) have deleted you from my list of 'go to' guys.

Why should I take your word for it? Who are you that I should entrust my boating knowledge and information base to? Your performance in the facts dept of late has been less than stellar.

Sorry, Either you have the facts to back up your statements, which in this instance, and in several others, is totally incorrect and cannot be rectified with a half baked excuse as above....

Im in medicine. If I gave you false information that could easily be checked.... believe it or not on the internet....... how long would I have patients?

Being well informed is one thing. Blustering your way through an excuse is another.

I come here to get the facts. You have let me down. Get a grip man and supply them or please stop with the drivel.

Thats a bit tough.
He didn't say they weren't part of EEC.

Anyhow, when did CF have the rule "facts only"? I thought it was full of armchair opinion mixed with some personal experience and hence required some sifting.
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Old 05-01-2015, 12:59   #410
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Re: Production Boats Fit For Blue Water

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Originally Posted by Kenomac View Post
Maybe a few more pictures will convince some to replace their DZR brass fittings. You know.... those brass fittings which are A-OK with the certification process. Here's one I have personal knowledge of. See how the corrosion takes place from within the elbow. The connector coupling is what failed and has broken off. No evidence of any corrosion issue was ever seen from the outside and the same boat was surveyed only 12 months prior to the fitting failure. There's basically nothing left of the elbow to hose coupling. The elbow and through hull showed no signs of dezincification. The boat had spend only 6 years in the water when the failure took place.


Do you still think it's a good idea to place one's trust in some certification process???
Tapered bronze Spartan seacocks throughout and original to my boat. Expensive to install & replace, but no sign of deterioration after 29 years and, by all accounts, will last as long as my boat. Besides, I don't have to become a metallurgist to figure out if/when they need replacing.

I think I've read enough about this CE rating to cast my lot with a reputable boat mfg., ABYC standards, and my own due diligence. I know my approach doesn't square with the idea of glassed-in, inaccessible backing plates, trading your boat in every few years, or hiring yard guys to do simple wiring jobs, but to each their own.

While I'm sure the CE rating serves a useful function for the industry, attempting to apply it at the consumer level doesn't seem all that helpful, and may be misleading. It doesn't seem to rule much out, and so it sounds like the OP is using it the way some mfgs. probably do, namely as a superficial way to impress consumers with a "Ocean" or "Offshore" rating that they can publish in their marketing brochures.
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Old 05-01-2015, 13:03   #411
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Re: Production Boats Fit For Blue Water

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Originally Posted by DumnMad View Post
Thats a bit tough.
He didn't say they weren't part of EEC.

Anyhow, when did CF have the rule "facts only"? I thought it was full of armchair opinion mixed with some personal experience and hence required some sifting.
More like armchair opinion mixed with personal INexperience and hence requires some ignoring or correcting.

Btw, does the UK still use the British Pound for its currency?
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Old 05-01-2015, 13:05   #412
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Re: Production Boats Fit For Blue Water

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Originally Posted by Kenomac View Post
Trusting my builder had nothing to do with my decision to replace all the through hulls and connection fittings. Don't assume you know why I did something just to make your post more inflammatory.
Okay - I was just going by what you wrote:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenomac View Post
We changed out all of our through hull fittings last summer, just to be on the safe side. Unless you know for sure who the manufacturer is and the metal composition of the bronze, you will never really know what was installed on your boat. The prudent sailboat owner will change all of them if the boat is older than 5 years, it's not enough just to have them inspected.
If it's prudent to change out fittings on an Oyster and a production boat every 5 years, why are people freaking out about the CE spec for fittings lasting 5 years?

Sounds like it's actually imprudent for most of these guys to be trusting their old fittings in their blue water boats regardless of material.
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Old 05-01-2015, 13:06   #413
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Re: Production Boats Fit For Blue Water

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Originally Posted by neilpride View Post
Obvious lesson, dont pay in advance any job in your boat...
Obvious lesson 2: always be present during the job.

Obvious lesson 3: get references and ask for warranty work.
Right. Like I said - never trust a yard guy.

(PS - I did get references.)
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Old 05-01-2015, 13:07   #414
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Re: Production Boats Fit For Blue Water

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Originally Posted by Polux View Post
But that says nothing about corrosion, except that plastic does not corrode
True except the reason we are talking about corrosion is that it weakens the pieces. If we don't start with a good, strong product and installation it doesn't matter.

This also makes a good case for the Forespar 93 Seacock as way to avoid the corrosion issue. Good load strength and no corrosion. That's what I have on my boat.
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Old 05-01-2015, 13:08   #415
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Re: Production Boats Fit For Blue Water

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Originally Posted by avb3 View Post
This is an international forum, so what you think is common knowledge may in fact just apply to a small geographic area.

And no, your word is not enough. I asked for some place to read and learn, and you come back with the "trust me" thing. Remember what Reagan said to Gorbachev, "Trust, but verify".
AV - I think what he is saying is if you want the information, go find it yourself. You're expecting him to do the work (provide you links, etc.) to convince you of something he already knows.

Dude, even Reagan was willing to put some effort into the verification.

Quote:
Originally Posted by avb3 View Post
In an attempt to trust what you said, I tried to verify your statements. I could not.
I mean it's great that you're starting to do that work now - but you've just started. Keep at it. Here, let me throw you a bone to get started:

http://algarve.angloinfo.com/informa...isure/sailing/

and another

http://www.ybw.com/forums/archive/in.../t-277773.html

(It's really not that hard.)
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Old 05-01-2015, 13:11   #416
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Re: Production Boats Fit For Blue Water

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Originally Posted by Exile View Post

Btw, does the UK still use the British Pound for its currency?
Yes.
Every country had the option of using the financial monetary system of the EURO on joining or using their own. Watch what Greece will do in the near future

Britain decided to continue with their own currency.
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Old 05-01-2015, 13:12   #417
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Re: Production Boats Fit For Blue Water

Quote:
Originally Posted by Polux View Post
I could but I don't want. I am feed up with you asking about confirmation regarding what I say. You should know UK is not properly EC, I mean they are in but they have a foot in other out and may probably go out as a result of a referendum they plan to make. Contrary to other EC countries they also don't need boat licences to sail so that goes with liberty package that some other European countries see as irresponsibility.
Ireland is a full EU member. The link I provide for not verify your claim.

It is easy to make claims. To maintain credibility, most people when asked will attempt to back up those claims. I am a willing student, but I also need to see evidence when anything I find contradicts your statement.

If you are not willing or unable to back up your statements, the wise thing is not to make them at all. After all, this is a matter that either is factual or it is not. There is no wiggle room here nor is it a matter of opinion.


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Old 05-01-2015, 13:17   #418
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Re: Production Boats Fit For Blue Water

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Originally Posted by Island Time O25 View Post
Just as with cars, a brand new Kia can deliver one perfectly well from place to place the same way an older Mercedes or a Volvo can. But in a rollover which would one rather be in?

The brand new Kia of course. Modern cars are far better at protecting their occupants in accidents than older ones. Probably less likely to get in to a roll in the first place.
A brand new Volvo however, that's a different story....


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Old 05-01-2015, 13:18   #419
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Re: Production Boats Fit For Blue Water

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Originally Posted by weavis View Post
Yes.
Every country had the option of using the financial monetary system of the EURO on joining or using their own. Watch what Greece will do in the near future

Britain decided to continue with their own currency.
OK, thanks. Wonder what Polux meant when he said Britain had one foot in and one foot out? This seemed to be a separate reference from an upcoming referendum on the matter.
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Old 05-01-2015, 13:18   #420
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Re: Production Boats Fit For Blue Water

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Originally Posted by Exile View Post
Tapered bronze Spartan seacocks throughout and original to my boat. Expensive to install & replace, but no sign of deterioration after 29 years and, by all accounts, will last as long as my boat. Besides, I don't have to become a metallurgist to figure out if/when they need replacing.

I think I've read enough about this CE rating to cast my lot with a reputable boat mfg., ABYC standards, and my own due diligence. I know my approach doesn't square with the idea of glassed-in, inaccessible backing plates, trading your boat in every few years, or hiring yard guys to do simple wiring jobs, but to each their own. .
+1 about tapered bronze seacocks.
What comes to backing plates you have had your share of shitty installations on that side of the pond too.
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