Production Boats Fit For Blue Water

[RTB]

Originally Posted by JulieMac

Why is it that all the videos of fair weather fun are shot by people in light duty, production boats? Whereas the Force 8 videos are shot by people on large ships or heavy displacement sailboats?

A light disp. S&S 34-


A J Boat? Or....?


Ralph

[TanzerTom]

Originally Posted by colemj

Wouldn't that, by any definition, include all of them?

Mark

No. Few of the accepted Water boats">blue water boats will fit my needs due to poor maneuverability around tight docks and the ICW, upwind performance, ease of sail handling, and cost. I see little evidence of the majority of sailors actually needing a boat capable of extended off shore work. For those that do, fine. But they have to be a small number, relatively. Before looking at the discussions on this thread and gathering other data, opinions, and hard data, I assumed a "blue water" boat was a better boat, period. Depends on one's definition of "better". The attributes I listed above are my needs and boats that fit them are "better" for me. I think Smackdaddy touches on that but spends too much time arguing that coastal cruisers are often fine for circumnavigating. I think that is the wrong argument to make. Buying the boat that best fits an individual's needs is what so many have said. A blue water boat does not fit my needs... unless it's a Contessa 32, and that is more an irrational love affair :-)

[smackdaddy]

Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY

HELP....'
SMACK....why do you keep the myth of Production Boats vs BlueWater boats going, when you said there was no such thing?

It's like you want this difference so you can then argue about it.....WTF...

As for personal shots....come on....after the personal attacks you posted in the Rebel Hear thread....Amigo....you should back off of crying Wolf....

What "personal attacks" are you talking about on the RH thread? Linky please.

I didn't say there was no such thing as "the Production Boats vs BlueWater boats" bias/debate. Others said it was a "myth". Not me. I'm absolutely certain it's here - just look at this thread.

Originally Posted by RTB

A J Boat? Or....?



Ralph

This is one of my all-time favorite photos, Ralph. Comfort factor turned pucker factor.

[smackdaddy]

Originally Posted by TanzerTom

No. Few of the accepted blue water boats will fit my needs due to poor maneuverability around tight docks and the ICW, upwind performance, ease of sail handling, and cost. I see little evidence of the majority of sailors actually needing a boat capable of extended off shore work. For those that do, fine. But they have to be a small number, relatively. Before looking at the discussions on this thread and gathering other data, opinions, and hard data, I assumed a "blue water" boat was a better boat, period. Depends on one's definition of "better". The attributes I listed above are my needs and boats that fit them are "better" for me. I think Smackdaddy touches on that but spends too much time arguing that coastal cruisers are often fine for circumnavigating. I think that is the wrong argument to make.

That's not my argument at all, Tanzer. I'm saying Category A rated production boats are fine for blue water cruising - including circumnavigation. Period. That's been shown to be the case over and over and over. It's fact. Just look at Polux's posts in this thread for a start.

How is this in any way "arguing that coastal cruisers are often fine for circumnavigating"? That would be silly - and, yes, the wrong argument to make. In fact, it's those claiming in this thread that it can be done in bathtubs and kayaks - and even Catalina 27s - that are making such arguments - not me. And they don't even own "coastal cruisers" from what I gather. Strange isn't it?

[smackdaddy]

Originally Posted by Polux

Regarding the choice of the best boat to cruise extensively, taking into consideration their vast experience they said:

"We have always believed in the phrase, “a fast passage is a safe passage”. We have always had borderline racing boats. A teak interior is beautiful but you are going to want to move without running an engine constantly, choose a boat that can sail. "
H20Notes - community weblog - Sailing


They changed boat in 2009 and the choice show that their convictions remain, they had chose a recent and very fast Tripp 47 and the reasons had to do with the kids that are now grown ups and need more space and privacy to receive friends.
[/COLOR]



You can follow them here:

Sailing with Celestial's Tripp

This is cool. Thanks Polux.

[Exile]

Originally Posted by TanzerTom

Buying the boat that best fits an individual's needs is what so many have said. A blue water boat does not fit my needs... unless it's a Contessa 32, and that is more an irrational love affair :-)

I think they are all irrational love affairs, or should be! So long as one's emotional investment doesn't prevent them from acknowledging the trade-offs. All boats have them, whether cheap or expensive.

[smackdaddy]

Originally Posted by Exile

I think they are all irrational love affairs, or should be! So long as one's emotional investment doesn't prevent them from acknowledging the trade-offs. All boats have them, whether cheap or expensive.

Bingo.

[TanzerTom]

Originally Posted by smackdaddy

That's not my argument at all, Tanzer. I'm saying Category A rated production boats are fine for blue water cruising - including circumnavigation. Period. That's been shown to be the case over and over and over. It's fact. Just look at Polux's posts in this thread for a start.

How is this in any way "arguing that coastal cruisers are often fine for circumnavigating"? That would be silly - and, yes, the wrong argument to make. In fact, it's those claiming in this thread that it can be done in bathtubs and kayaks - and even Catalina 27s - that are making such arguments - not me. And they don't even own "coastal cruisers" from what I gather. Strange isn't it?

Okay. Not sure you didn't contradict yourself from the first paragraph to the second, but I think I get what you're saying. I don't need a blue boat to go up and down the coastal Carolinas and in to Oriental. If I were going to travel the world, well, that's a different story. Would a coastal boat do it? That's apparently a proven point. Would I want to do it in a coastal boat? Not me. Perception is reality until reality bites.

[Exile]

Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY

As for personal shots....come on....after the personal attacks you posted in the Rebel Hear thread....Amigo....you should back off of crying Wolf....

C'mon now, Smack's highly probative "investigation" of the RH incident was merely another public service he was doing to try and prevent others from repeating the same "mistake" (whatever that was). We know it had absolutely nothing to do with reassuring himself that it could never happen to a guy as smart as him (whatever happened, that is).

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by RTB

A light disp. S&S 34-


A J Boat? Or....?
Attachment 94839

Ralph

G'Day Ralph,

Nice photos, but teh S&S 34 is not a "light" design by most standards. It is pretty conservative in all respects, as were nearly all of the S&S designs of that era. Really great boats, despite (!) having a fin keel and skeg rudder.

And the flying J boat... it is hard to imagine the exact conditions that lead
to that leap. Must have been a big bang very shortly thereafter!

Jim

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

And the flying J boat... it is hard to imagine the exact conditions that lead
to that leap. Must have been a big bang very shortly thereafter!

Jim

Motoring out over a bar? or maybe passing McHaffies ( Westernport ) outbound under power on the ebb? ( Don't ask me why I think that.... )

[RTB]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

G'Day Ralph,

Nice photos, but teh S&S 34 is not a "light" design by most standards. It is pretty conservative in all respects, as were nearly all of the S&S designs of that era. Really great boats, despite (!) having a fin keel and skeg rudder.

Jim, I was only looking at displacement - S&S 34 sailboat specifications and details on sailboatdata.com

I'm sure that The Pink Lady was no stock boat, and had plenty of mods done. But yeah, the S&S 34 is a pretty stout little yacht. I'd love to find a fixer-upper, but they are scarce.

Ralph

[smackdaddy]

Originally Posted by TanzerTom

Okay. Not sure you didn't contradict yourself from the first paragraph to the second, but I think I get what you're saying. I don't need a blue boat to go up and down the coastal Carolinas and in to Oriental. If I were going to travel the world, well, that's a different story. Would a coastal boat do it? That's apparently a proven point. Would I want to do it in a coastal boat? Not me. Perception is reality until reality bites.

I think the difference is that you seem to directly equate "coastal boat" with "production boat". That's not necessarily correct.

Again, to be clear, this thread is about Cat A rated production boats. Those are not "coastal boats" - they are "blue boats" to use your terminology.

[DumnMad]

Originally Posted by Randyonr3

Guess you didnt read my post Julie, why would anyone in their right mind want to ride out a Force 8 storm... You dont have to.... unless thats your goal, and if so, better buy a really heavy, very slow, non-performing slug..

Force 8 is a gale, not a storm!

Maybe some people live in places where you have a choice to keep below force 8, but I'm from NZ. My sailing skipper got tired of waiting and so we cruised through Force 9 and he tells everyone we had a smooth crossing.

I admit it wasn't scary but gusting up to 54knots and waves 6 to 8m high kept us on our toes.

All these posts and I still don't understand what Blue Water Boat means.
Does Blue Water Boat mean it can handle seas where winds are under Force 8,
and a Green Water Boat mean it can handle seas up to Force 12?

[smackdaddy]

Originally Posted by DumnMad

Force 8 is a gale, not a storm!

Maybe some people live in places where you have a choice to keep below force 8, but I'm from NZ. My sailing skipper got tired of waiting and so we cruised through Force 9 and he tells everyone we had a smooth crossing.

I admit it wasn't scary but gusting up to 54knots and waves 6 to 8m high kept us on our toes.

All these posts and I still don't understand what Blue Water Boat means.
Does Blue Water Boat mean it can handle seas where winds are under Force 8,
and a Green Water Boat mean it can handle seas up to Force 12?

Just like the general definition of "production boats" above, the general definition of "blue water boats" typically runs as follows:

Hans Christian
Swan (though debated)
Oyster
Moody
Morris
Hinckley
Island Packet
Valiant
Bristol
Etc.

I too would be interested to know if these boats are also "Green Water Boats". I was surprised to learn that F8 was a super scary thing.