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Old 14-09-2013, 08:02   #16
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Re: Prevent the theft of California boating dollars

"People hate nuance and the intricacies of reality." I'm thinking this comment may lack exactly the intricacy and nuance you speak of. I thought you were going to say, the police, or firemen, or social workers. or anyone of a thousand other hard working underpaid jobs that people do in our culture. Nine times out of ten these are patronage jobs. These guy are by and large the very same guys who can't get the "plush" jobs because they were at the bottom of their class while in medical school. Jobs like this attract the same group that stays in the military for life, not to take away their commitment to the service, but things are prescribed, defined, thought out for them, don't require a lot of creating thinking. Institutionalized, as you say. Please know that I am not knocking you or them. It just is what it is. And as Doc go, these folks are under paid. Most Docs are looking to get a mill+ a year at least. Those are the under achievers. And their insurance to income ratio's are in keeping with the ratios of the rest of us. The largest problem with the cost of healthcare is the cost of healthcare. Hospitals and Docs and the pharmaceutical industry are grossly over paid.
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Old 14-09-2013, 08:20   #17
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Re: Prevent the theft of California boating dollars

" And their insurance to income ratio's are in keeping with the ratios of the rest of us.hahahaha. continue to believe that--i know better The largest problem with the cost of healthcare is the cost of healthcare. Hospitals and Docs and the pharmaceutical industry are grossly over paid."


you try paying 200k usd insurance premiums out of pocket. then see who is overpaid. sorry--tis the corruption rampant in usa govt that makes the fees so high, my love. is called bought legislature and bought executive branches as lobbyists continue to bleed usa taxpayers as they buy their legislation.
also tort law!!!
---if you think 200k usd OUT OF POCKET is good price for malpractice insurance--which ALL mds and soon all rns must have to work, then address these cause.
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Old 14-09-2013, 08:43   #18
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Re: Prevent the theft of California boating dollars

Apologies for the thread drift, but...

1) I cannot document average M.D. pay in the US, so I'll leave the 1 million allegation dangling there, unsupported by data....

2) However, one thing no one mentioned is that it can really be horrifying for a "civilian" to even enter a locked facility. Some people purely freak out in that environment; and IMO, it would be stressful. It is not only what the inmates have done, but what they might do to you. Definitely not for everybody.

3) Judging by the increase in prison facilities, it is not "they" but "we" who want the prisoners in prison. Makes sense for us to pay.

Just not from boating taxes. To me, shoreline and highway funds should pay for shoreline and highway repair on a shore that must face erosioon as it faces the direction from which the main winds come, and is an uplifting shoreline, as well. There are some forces too big for us to counteract effectively over time, and those ongoing repairs, to me, should arise from our highway taxes, and the taxes on motor vehicles.

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Old 14-09-2013, 09:42   #19
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Re: Prevent the theft of California boating dollars

Quoted for truth!
I'm a therapist and have worked with offenders before (post-release). And in that job it was mostly assessment, short-term case management and referral. There are aspects of it that really wear you down. You couldn't pay me enough money to work in a prison.

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Originally Posted by rebel heart View Post
Regarding the doctor making $410:

Go talk to any doctor friends of yours. Ask them to work, unarmed, in constant direct physical contact with murders, rapists, and child molesters. Tell them they will need to work hard to save people who are guilty of crimes that the physician will feel are morally reprehensible.

He will also need to be on call, not working plush off hours. He will also need to work at a facility that will generally be out in the middle of nowhere and it will not benefit his career advancement like working around groups of other physicians (like in a hospital or larger practice setting).

You'll also need to keep this physician around as they gain institutional knowledge, which you'll only really be able to do by increasing their compensation package.

People hate nuance and the intricacies of reality.
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Old 16-09-2013, 18:34   #20
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Re: Prevent the theft of California boating dollars

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Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate View Post
2) However, one thing no one mentioned is that it can really be horrifying for a "civilian" to even enter a locked facility. Some people purely freak out in that environment; and IMO, it would be stressful. It is not only what the inmates have done, but what they might do to you. Definitely not for everybody.
Ann
Hi Ann,

No one makes them take this job... If they are "freaked out" by working in that environment, they should look for work elsewhere. I would guess that the unions (assuming unions due to the comments in the article about collective bargaining) are protecting the jobs of the incumbent doctors at the same time they are bargaining for such inflated wages. If Zeehag's comments about Self Insurance is correct, I would be willing to bet there are many doctors who would take the job for considerably less and work under the States liability umbrella...
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Old 16-09-2013, 19:00   #21
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Re: Prevent the theft of California boating dollars

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Originally Posted by Krogensailor View Post
California Prison Doctors Paid Second-Highest In The Nation

By DON THOMPSON 10/19/12 03:37 PM ET EDT











SACRAMENTO, Calif. A doctor at California Medical Facility was paid more than $410,000 last year, while a registered nurse at High Desert State Prison made nearly $236,000 more than twice the statewide average in both cases.
A pharmacist at Corcoran State Prison was paid more than $196,000, nearly double what is typical across the state.
Compensation for medical providers has soared in the prison system since a federal judge seized control of inmate health care in 2006 and appointed an overseer with the power to hire and set pay levels.
As the official begins to wind down his oversight, the medical hiring and salary increases have helped lead to an improvement in inmate care, but it has increased the bill for taxpayers too.
It has also led to criticism that the official called a receiver provided a "Cadillac" level of care for convicted felons. A state review found that only Texas pays its state prison doctors more that California.
"The problem that we had is that the receiver was not accountable to anybody," said former state Sen. George Runner, a Republican who has frequently criticized the program.
"So the receiver could just do or choose to spend whatever amount of money he thought was necessary to solve his problem, and unfortunately now the state is stuck with that," he said.
The receiver for medical care, J. Clark Kelso, said the state has been free to collectively bargain health care providers' salaries since a court order increasing their wages expired three years ago.


Have you SEEN what happens at a place like Corcoran? Look it up. My wife is a corrections nurse, and believe me, NONE of these people are over paid. They deal with some of life's harshest realities so the rest of us don't have to. They help people who seriously need help too, societies neediest unfortunately. Look at the legions of overpaid government administrators who sit at a desk all day if you want to reduce waste, but for gods sake don't even consider messing with the workers at the coal face. The stories I could tell, believe me it's not "Cadillac care". It's a whole lot of people who are batsh*t crazy and dangerous, a huge mess to deal with. Just be glad it happens where you don't have to see, and quietly pay for it. Otherwise the crazies will be in your front yard...
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Old 16-09-2013, 19:22   #22
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Re: Prevent the theft of California boating dollars

Quiet about the docs!!!

Doctors buy new or nearly new boats, then trade them in on something newer and bigger, and the rest of us buy their still-nice trade-ins at reasonable prices.

Now if we could only convince all one-percenters that they need a new boat every year...
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Old 18-09-2013, 05:44   #23
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Re: Prevent the theft of California boating dollars

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Now if we could only convince all one-percenters that they need a new boat every year...
My fried, I like where your head is at with this
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Old 18-09-2013, 06:05   #24
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Re: Prevent the theft of California boating dollars

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While none of us like paying taxes, if they go to a good use they are necessary. Boating taxes pay for (or should pay for) improvements to facilities, maintenance (think of all those navaids) and so on.

If you pay no taxes you should expect to get nothing in return.
C'mon dude. Don't be so adversarial. At least wake up to see what's going on. As the 2nd post in this thread pointed out, this is nothing new. That doesn't mean it's not happening and it certainly doesn't mean it should be allowed. Yes, the state legislature votes for earmarked funding. Then when those funds are diverted to other uses (or illegally to the gen'l fund to 'balance' a budget) no one should complain?

If you aren't part of the solution you are part of the problem.

This money grubbing is happening on the federal level (diversion of fuel surcharges for general aviation aircraft, as example) and on the state level across many states. I'm fiscally and socially conservative and I say let's band together in opposition to the fat cats in Wash DC, et al.
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Old 18-09-2013, 06:24   #25
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Re: Prevent the theft of California boating dollars

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Hi Ann,

No one makes them take this job... If they are "freaked out" by working in that environment, they should look for work elsewhere. I would guess that the unions (assuming unions due to the comments in the article about collective bargaining) are protecting the jobs of the incumbent doctors at the same time they are bargaining for such inflated wages. If Zeehag's comments about Self Insurance is correct, I would be willing to bet there are many doctors who would take the job for considerably less and work under the States liability umbrella...
California Men's Prison in San Luis Obispo is just outside city limits, right along Highway 1, and in some of the most beautiful part of CA. I know or have known guards, psych Dr, MD, and med staff at the aforementioned prison plus Avenal, Corcoran, and Tehachapi. Those folks sure do love their salary plus benefits plus pension. Often I have been offered the 'inside' road to employment at those facilities but I would go bat crazy in that job whether as bed wetter monitor or instructor in skill development (yeah right, as if the absurdly high recidivism rate doesn't exist)

Absolutely do I agree with Andy's comments.
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Old 18-09-2013, 06:26   #26
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Re: Prevent the theft of California boating dollars

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This practice of raiding and diverting (plundering??) earmarked funds is the norm not the exception with many states, like Michigan for example.
Michigan certainly has some of the nicest state marinas I have come across. Many did big upgrades in last few years when construction costs were cheap. Now, they seem to be raising rates quite a bit on transient and seasonal dockage. Not sure how the renovations were funded, but hopefully the investments in upgrades will not be a flop with declined usership.
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Old 18-09-2013, 06:29   #27
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Re: Prevent the theft of California boating dollars

Those are interesting figures, but what do y'all suggest? privatize it and get a bunch of Abu Gharib flunkies running the place of just shut them down and never leave your gated community?
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Old 18-09-2013, 07:07   #28
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Re: Prevent the theft of California boating dollars

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Those are interesting figures, but what do y'all suggest? privatize it and get a bunch of Abu Gharib flunkies running the place of just shut them down and never leave your gated community?
The town of Avenal was unincorporated when they built the first state prison in the area. Then they got the bright idea to incorporate into a city. Boy, the city limits sure has a weird shape...all clustered around city centre but a long extension out to and surrounding the newly built prison. Talk about new paved roads! Oh those were glorious days. Then the union horned in on the action. End of story.
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Old 18-09-2013, 13:46   #29
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Re: Prevent the theft of California boating dollars

California doesn't need a petition, it needs new politicians.

That reflects the blame straight onto the voters. You got exactly what a majority of California voters want.
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Old 18-09-2013, 13:52   #30
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Re: Prevent the theft of California boating dollars

From today's 'Lectronic Latitude-

Bad Precedent Avoided
September 18, 2013 – Sacramento

As predicted would happen when the Department of Parks and Recreation absorbed the Department of Boating and Waterways last year, California state lawmakers tried to dig their fingers into the Harbor and Watercraft Revolving Fund for non-boating uses. The Recreational Boaters of California and Boat US joined forces last week to alert boaters about this last-minute money grab and their lobbying paid off.

California Senate Bill 436 passed in the final hours of the state legislature's 2012-2013 session, but a key portion that would have opened up the HWRF for non-boating purposes — which would have set a troubling precedent — was dropped. Instead, the bill allows for the possibility of "a grant or loan of $1 million from the HWRF to Port Hueneme for emergency measures to prevent damage to streets and property along Hueneme Beach caused by beach erosion and flooding." The two boater advocate groups say they will continue to do everything they can to protect the integrity and effectiveness of the HWRF.


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