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Old 05-07-2010, 12:06   #46
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Can you describe how big it was? Was it all clumped together or spread out? Do you have any pictures? Sorry for all the questions - I'm just curious and would like to have an unbiased report.
I have heard that it is twice the size of Texas
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Old 05-07-2010, 12:14   #47
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Technology is fantastically wonderful. And just as fantastically deadly. We as a species have never learned how to achieve a balance with this. Most plastic is produced by industrial based societies, whether it be in factories at home or abroad. The ethnicity of the owner/producer is totally irrelevant. Regardless of whether the plastic has usefulness in its first iteration, its production is heavily polluting, and its life as waste product is degrading our planet's ability to keep us alive. The chances, however, of humans agreeing to stop producing something which makes lots of money for a powerful group of people is about as likely as the rational and intelligent people on this website coming to an agreement about these issues. I recommend yoga to achieve the flexibility to be able to lean over far enough to kiss our butts goodbye. {Though, actually that won't happen in my lifetime ...]
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Old 05-07-2010, 12:20   #48
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Plastic is a great thing. Most recreational boats are made from it. The problem is what we do with it.
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Old 05-07-2010, 14:12   #49
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There is quite a bit of activism disguised as science out there which hurts legitimate science and scientists. The public is quite often left in the dark as to which information comes from a truly scientific source or from an activists personal opinion. Much of the public is unaware there is even a difference.

Scientific method - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 05-07-2010, 15:53   #50
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Over many years in the Caribbean I have developed a slightly different perspective on "trash in the ocean." Little if any of it comes from direct dumping into the ocean. Each island has established garbage dumps where collected garbage is collected and burned if possible. What is happening, is garbage is collected in road-side "pens" rather than individual house locations. These road-side pens frequently become overfilled and bags of garbage are left around the outside of the "pens." First Tropical rain deluge that comes along washes most all of it into the rivers, bays, and ocean.
- - It is true that many of the little weekend get-away islands beaches have 1 meter high by 2 meter wide berms of plastic and other trash that has likewise been washed down by the rainstorms from the "picnic area" to the shoreline. The little countries have no interest or resources to go out to these places and collect the garbage so it also eventually enters the oceans.
- - I have many times been sailing along a hundred or so miles from shore and watched plastic foam cups and food containers merrily bobbing along heading west with the winds.
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Old 05-07-2010, 16:54   #51
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I think it is a evolution in our society that, as small communities, we just set the trash outside our sight, but as we develop the trash gets so voluminous that we must deal with it.

Early settlers in the US did that, they filled in ponds in lower Manhattan and turned them into slums that are now high rent districts.

I saw this as a kid in my small town and have seen it elsewhere. People just dump their trash where ever. In the woods, abandoned lots. Out of sight, out of mind.

I've been to small outports on the South coast of Newfoundland, where towns are 30 to 50 miles apart and a big one is over 300 people. They have "incinerators" near the waters edge where they burn their stuff. But much washes away. I crossed a water boundary coming in once, I could see the change in water color from off shore water to near shore water. And the boundary was full of man made crap. You gotta wonder where it all comes from. The population was literally less than 4 people per mile of coast.
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Old 05-07-2010, 18:04   #52
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When I wrote that, what was going through my mind, but did not state, is that when research gets intermingled with activism, it discredits the research. If "science" is done to try prove a point, its illegitimate science and under the definitions of the Scientific Method, is not science at all. Its why I asked the question...which are they? Because by definition they cannot be both. I did not want to come across in a negative manner but I was curious which it is.

There is quite a bit of activism disguised as science out there which hurts legitimate science and scientists. The public is quite often left in the dark as to which information comes from a truly scientific source or from an activists personal opinion. Much of the public is unaware there is even a difference.

Scientific method - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You are damn right about that!!

"Science" is the new religion.

You all need to think about that - it's deep.

There are lots of them too.
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Old 05-07-2010, 19:06   #53
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Then again there is a bit if science that gets polished to be marketable. Common sense should rule. If you use it recycle it. If you can't dispose of it don't buy it.don't buy crap that is over packaged. Yadd ahhhh dahh
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Old 05-07-2010, 19:17   #54
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Seen countless pieces of rubbish when crossing from the West Indies to the Azores. Since I did not see this amt of garbage anywhere along the West Indies nor along the S American coast, my guess is it was all coming from the US coast.

The second explanation could be it was not "coming" but simply "being" there - just like we can read about the N Pacific rubbish gyre.

Indian was nearly so polluted with plastic and big pieces of just anything. Surprisingly, the Pacific was the cleanest.

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Old 06-07-2010, 12:20   #55
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The North Atlantic Subtropical Gyre circles the Sargasso Sea, which accumulates a high concentration of non-biodegradable plastic waste, popularly known as the North Atlantic Garbage Patch.

See the 5 Gyres (N & S Pacific, N & S Atlantic, & Indian Oceans) Project website
5 Gyres - Understanding Plastic Pollution Through Exploration, Education, and Action
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Old 06-07-2010, 12:33   #56
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You are damn right about that!!

"Science" is the new religion.

You all need to think about that - it's deep.

There are lots of them too.
Einstein was both a scientist and believed in God. Although science and religion are not the same thing, they are not mutually exclusive of each other meaning a belief in the principles one does not make the other invalid.
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Old 06-07-2010, 12:38   #57
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Einstein was both a scientist and believed in God. Although science and religion are not the same thing, they are not mutually exclusive of each other meaning a belief in the principles one does not make the other invalid.
Correct.

But one always remains patent nonsense - whether you beleive in it or not. As I said to Thor only yesterday
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Old 06-07-2010, 12:46   #58
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....and you have nice hair as well Dave.
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Old 06-07-2010, 13:32   #59
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Einstein was both a scientist and believed in God...
Certainly NOT in any conventional religious sense!

“I have repeatedly said that in my opinion the idea of a personal God is a childlike one. You may call me an agnostic, but I do not share the crusading spirit of the professional atheist whose fervor is mostly due to a painful act of liberation from the fetters of religious indoctrination received in youth. I prefer an attitude of humility corresponding to the weakness of our intellectual understanding of nature and of our own being.”


- Albert Einstein to Guy H. Raner Jr., Sept. 28, 1949, quoted by Michael R. Gilmore in Skeptic magazine, Vol. 5, No. 2

Many religious theists cite Einstein as an example of a scientist who was also a religious theist like them. This supposedly rebuts the idea that science conflicts with religion, or that science is atheistic. However, Albert Einstein consistently, and unambiguously, denied believing in personal gods who answered prayers or involved themselves in human affairs - exactly the sort of god common to religious theists, claiming that Einstein was one of them.

In a letter to philosopher Erik Gutkind, Einstein remarked (Jan 1954), "The word god is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this.”

When asked by an astounded atheist, if he were in fact deeply religious, Einstein replied:
"Yes, you can call it that. Try and penetrate with our limited means the secrets of nature and you will find that, behind all the discernible concatenations, there remains something subtle, intangible and inexplicable. Veneration for this force beyond anything that we can comprehend is my religion. To that extent I am, in point of fact, religious"
— H. G. Kessler, The Diary of a Cosmopolitan, quoted in Einstein and Religion by Max Jammer


Unfortunately, unlike Albert, I have no hair.
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Old 06-07-2010, 13:41   #60
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Maybe when A Whale is done with the oil spill it can go out to the Sargasso Sea and skim plastic.
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