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Old 21-01-2011, 12:06   #16
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As reported by BBC News BBC News - South Korea rescues Samho Jewelry crew from pirates

Hooray. Testicular Fortitude! The BALLS win !!!!!!!!!! Sure, it could have gone badly, but it didn't. It went well. If only that could be done 10 times in succession.
It is not a question of possibility, of resources and so on.
It is simply the question of will and determination.
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Old 21-01-2011, 12:09   #17
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I am not sure it will stop them. If you are a starving fisherman with a family to feed are you going to sit on the beach because the local waters have been raped of fish for 2 decades or take your chances of a $45k share in a profitable hijack?
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No, one push-back won't stop them. But consistently responding to violence with death will certainly reduce the amount to be distributed and the number of recipients. Starving fisherman my arse. These are PIRATES. As I recall, the penalty for piracy used to be "To be hanged by the neck until dead", including poor bloody starving fisherman.
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Old 21-01-2011, 12:33   #18
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I am not sure it will stop them. If you are a starving fisherman with a family to feed are you going to sit on the beach because the local waters have been raped of fish for 2 decades or take your chances of a $45k share in a profitable hijack?



This has been discussed at length over the past couple of years as the problem became more serious. Worth having a search through the threads on CF which has some good advice.

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I would sit my family outside every single foriegn embassy and try to get the hell out of there and move to the "US" like everyone else...
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Old 21-01-2011, 12:50   #19
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political correctness

I'm with the people who advocate killing the pirates. It's a shame that Somalia is in the shape it's in, but allowing them to extort money and kill people to make a living is ludicrous. Help them with their economy or whatever, but if they come near my boat please blow them to smithereens and then track the mother ship and blow her and all her occupants out of the water too.

If we refused to pay ransom and killed every pirate we encountered the problem would stop wouldn't it? All this misplaced, faux humanitarianism, and PC posturing is bull crap.
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Old 21-01-2011, 13:11   #20
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Ex-Blackwater, now Xe, exec and consultant Prince is reportedly training a 1000 anti-pirates funded by an undisclosed Middle Eastern benefactor. There is talk of bringing the rule of law to Mogadishu using these "consultants" - reminds me of Soldier of Fortune Simon Mann and the Wonga Coup. Sounds like rock 'n roll to me! Oh, to be a young man full of vim and vigor - training with live rounds and helicopters. How much wonga is in Somalia's oil contracts? Romantic. Lucrative. Dangerous. In Africa, it is very difficult to tell who is the pirate and who is the anti-pirate.
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Old 21-01-2011, 13:17   #21
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No, one push-back won't stop them. But consistently responding to violence with death will certainly reduce the amount to be distributed and the number of recipients. Starving fisherman my arse. These are PIRATES. As I recall, the penalty for piracy used to be "To be hanged by the neck until dead", including poor bloody starving fisherman.
The moral relativism arguement doesn't hold water. Those waters have been profitably fished for decades. If they really are out of fish, why not strike years ago. Every nation has the right to regulate fishing in their coastal waters, why didn't they excercise theirs? Also why not attack foreign fishing boats, if that is the problem. NO! they are attacking freighters and yachts neither of which compete for fish.

The problems in Somalia have nothing to do with fish, only that they never progressed beyond (hunter gatherer) stage in social developement. Their current problems are mostly due to an islamic insurgency that has nearly toppled their government, and has resorted to piracy to raise money for terrorism. Remember in the 70's when we were told that independance of Somalia from Ethiopia would bring peace and stability to the region. That Somalian Muslems just wanted their "own" country.

Piracy in order to exist needs the complicent consent in the parent society/country. Think about it. If a fisherman shows up at his fishing port towing a captured freighter, theres bound to be some questions asked. Everybody in the village will know what he did, and what he is doing. Officials and village leaders will have to be cut in and bribed to go along. Bound and gagged foreigners being led down the village streets is bound to be noticed. The ransom currency transfers will need approval from both the local and an international bank. Even as disfunctional a government as Somalia can find out where a few million dollars are being transferred to and wait there with a few dozen troops when the pirates show up to collect.

A few dozen gunboats could cruise down the Somalia coast and find and eliminate ALL pirates in a couple of weeks. We know because it was done successfully before. From what i've been able to determine local fishermen are complicit in phoning in where to find targets tips. As such they are equally guilty. Sound harsh? Reward bad behavier and you will get more of it. Piracy was eliminated the first two times in history when being a pirate was an automatic death sentence. It is always less work to steal wealth from someone else than to produce your own. It always has been and always will be. Civilization is the ablility to produce wealth without fear that it will be taken by force. Lose that, and we go back to feudalism, where you had to live in a castle so your crops wouldn't be taken by mauraders forcing you to starve. The only way we have maintained civilization is by making the penalty for crime greater than the reward.
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Old 21-01-2011, 13:20   #22
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It seems to me the best way to stop this is to be proactive. Put properly armed and trained security squads on every ship traversing the area. Adopt a NO PRISONERS policy. You attack we will kill you. No paydays,no ransoms Attempt piracy all you get is dead.
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Old 21-01-2011, 13:31   #23
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Two wrongs don't make it right, whether it is the stealing is of ones fish or ships.

The pirates motivation to steal from others cannot be stopped until a legitimate government is created allowing the government to protect their territorial waters from poachers. Doing so would also eliminate the thugs from power. Whether this is the Somalian's responsibility, the world's responsibility or both, it's difficult to say.

Anywhere in the world it is legal to kill armed hostage takers. I don't see this situation as any different.

To continue to pay off pirates only encourages them further.
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Old 21-01-2011, 14:03   #24
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The tide seems to be turning on piracy off of Africa.

South Korea kills 8 pirates, rescues hijacked crew - USATODAY.com

Interesting that a little country like South Korea could do this. Maybe what the the "big" countries should do is consider funding the South Korea's to expand this cover more. Isn't this history?
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Old 21-01-2011, 14:20   #25
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Two wrongs don't make it right, whether it is the stealing is of ones fish or ships.

The pirates motivation to steal from others cannot be stopped until a legitimate government is created allowing the government to protect their territorial waters from poachers. Doing so would also eliminate the thugs from power. Whether this is the Somalian's responsibility, the world's responsibility or both, it's difficult to say.

Anywhere in the world it is legal to kill armed hostage takers. I don't see this situation as any different.

To continue to pay off pirates only encourages them further.


I don't know what side of the fence your on. "Two wrongs don't........."

"Anywhere in the world it is legal to kill................."


The motivation to steal will always be there as long as they go unpunished. If they want to put their lives on the line to steal, then so be it.

Their lives mean nothing to me, I advocate killing them at every provocation!!! Time will tell if they learned anything or not.........lets see how motivated they are to chase South Korea's vessels in the future.


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Old 21-01-2011, 14:22   #26
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Small? Two hundred years ago, that was the United States when it cleared out the Barbary pirates. The world powers then were cowed then too.
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Old 21-01-2011, 14:30   #27
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two wrongs dont make a right, are you suggesting defense would not include the ability to attack or defend or kill your attacker???

is it wrong to kill, yes, but kill or be killed? or eye for an eye?

Is it wrong to imprison someone? or is it ok if they do something wrong to deserve it?
I would alsoway promote education and options to those 'soldiers' who are recruited and or dont believe there is another way.. and show them that there is another way, and that thier govt and their leaders are the fault... and to either flee thier govt, or to fight their govt...

workd communication is needed... and as long as some govts censor what thier citizens can and cant hear/read, there will be oppressed people.

its bad enuf that the US govt LIES to us and keeps secrets, but the only difference is that we can coose to leave it if we dont like it... can the people of somalia leave? can they fight back??

no... so until then work woards educating those poor souls, and use sufficient resources and lethality to match/prevent any world be attackers...

and while hanging them, distribute information to others who may choose to follow in thier footsteps...
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Old 21-01-2011, 14:51   #28
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man wants, men take!
WHY?
man has no natural selection,,mans only threat is man.

ponishment is a tool that only works when the ransom to pay is hier then the comited crime...in this case death.

I preach by exemple and belive that a good example is never wasted...this being said once dead only your teaching survives you...so given the choice would I take a life to save my own??? hell yes id take 100s

like you I am an animal...no better no worst...I can give love and show understanding...I can be cruel and mean if given no other choices.
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Old 21-01-2011, 15:02   #29
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although we are animal we arent... we have brains..

if there werent rules, would you take from those that coldnt defend? would you kill them when you could just take some clothes or some food?

would you rape rather then win the respect of your mate?

could you teach to gain revere?

we are better then animals, so although i understand your point, and I too would kill to save me or mine, I wouldnt kill 100's... unless each and everyone of them was trying to kill me...

eye for an eye, not an eye for a finger nail...

is death appropriate for kidnap/ransom, maybe, depends... nothing is black and white..
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Old 21-01-2011, 16:30   #30
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"In one of the most controversial rescues, Russian marines freed 23 crew barricaded on board a Russian tanker, the Moscow University. The pirates were later found dead and adrift in a small boat."

Just curous. How many Russian ships are pirated?
I was wondering what the outcome of that "release" was.

Reading between the lines of the original story, I kind of figured the "release" happened far away from land, with no food, water, or gas. Send a message.

We should practise this catch and release method more often
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