Pirate attack Phillipines ?

[daletournier]

There has not been a incident at Samal Island for 11 years! Its been considered very safe, this is why yachties have gone there. West side of Palawan is considered very safe yet last year there was a reported but unsuccessful pirate/terrorist attack there. There are experienced contributors to this forum that sail that way because it's "safe". My point is its a dynamic changing environment. I've loved the Philippines , fantastic cruising with great memories but my time is done. Everyone has a right to their opinion , I know 2 of the guys kidnapped and its just to close to home for me, definately has changed my view.

Sent from my GT-N7105T using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

[gramsdonna]

I'm looking for a marina in or around Puerta Vallerta Does anyone have any suggestions?

[Pelagic]

I agree with Will's assessment

.....you need to be acutely aware of your 3rd world neighborhood before you make a long stay in a known troubled area just because the tourism department and developers tell you it is safe

Find out where the wealthy locals store their yachts when not in use.
Here in the Philippines the Subic and Manila yacht clubs are the most secure

Also when cruising, give disinformation to all and move often in the opposite direction you may have told anyone who asked.

That is by far the best proactive defence.

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by gramsdonna

I'm looking for a marina in or around Puerta Vallerta Does anyone have any suggestions?

Welcome to CF gramsdonna!

Did you mean Puerto Galera?

[Cap Erict3]

Walking up to the first assailant and shooting him between the eyes might seem dramatic but it is the type of action that can send a wannabe bad ass back in the bush.

Millions for charity and zip for tribute.

I feel for and give to many of the destitute but have no respect for hoodlums.


------------------------------
Looking for another pretty place to work on the boat.

[Goosebumps]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

I agree with Will's assessment

.....you need to be acutely aware of your 3rd world neighborhood before you make a long stay in a known troubled area just because the tourism department and developers tell you it is safe

Find out where the wealthy locals store their yachts when not in use.
Here in the Philippines the Subic and Manila yacht clubs are the most secure

Also when cruising, give disinformation to all and move often in the opposite direction you may have told anyone who asked.

That is by far the best proactive defence.

How do we still label certain parts of the globe as "3rd world". If the label is stuck on because of the non-caucasan inhabitants that live in that area, so racially motivated, or is it economically motivated, or both, 1st world labeled parts of the world now have high terrorist risk as well, just mentioning the train massacre that was avoided on speed train to Paris! First worlders often think that what insurance companies tell them is true, risk can be managed, let me tell you 1st 2nd or 3th world labelling and thus using the label to limit our travel scope simply doesnt help us cruisers who circumnavigate, who enjoy pristine natural areas, often found in. "3rd world neighborhoods". Manage your risk by informing yourself as well as possible, know your limits, adopt right attiude when visiting other parts, cultures, certainly outshooting them wont work.

[alansmith]

Cap Will, u confirmed my 2 lady friends abnomiitiins of staying clear of southern PI. One nurse lives in Cagayan De Oro and deals with these menaces as a nurse who does health education in the hills on a quarterly basis.

It is asymmetric warfare as old as recorded history. Don't want to be a pawn in the next chess move between the haves and have nots. It really is a beautiful country and I like the people. Such a pity.

[alansmith]

Do u think it was by chance or plan that they got who they did? The Jaoanese woman got away. Americans won't pay ransoms or so they say. I just feel that what Cap Will said that this had inside info for location of boats for easy access, who was on which boats, and possibly even nationalities of boaters whose countries have been known to pay out. Total hypothesis... I just feel so bad for these people and so sad for the community that will now be affected by this incident. I know somebody posted about the PI Coast Guard at Puerta Princessa. Does anyone recall seeing that coverage before the attack some years ago where the tourists were butchered at Palawan? I don't remember.

U can not predict where to place protection in asymmetric warfare. USA learned that in a terrible way, as has France, Russia, Spain, Israel, And even China, and others

[CaptWil]

Yes unfortunate for us all as Php is such a wonderful country to visit with very warm and hospitable people

Impi I have been following your videos of New Caledonia as I was born there, such a wonderful wonderful place to cruise around. I would dearly say with what is happening in Php, Yachties should think of making New Caledonia an alternative destination as you will not be disappointed

And to come back to the original thread,my hopes are that these unfortunate people are safe and will eventually be reunited with their loved ones

Safe sailing to us all
Will

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by Goosebumps

How do we still label certain parts of the globe as "3rd world". If the label is stuck on because of the non-caucasan inhabitants that live in that area, so racially motivated, or is it economically motivated, or both, 1st world labeled parts of the world now have high terrorist risk as well, just mentioning the train massacre that was avoided on speed train to Paris! First worlders often think that what insurance companies tell them is true, risk can be managed, let me tell you 1st 2nd or 3th world labelling and thus using the label to limit our travel scope simply doesnt help us cruisers who circumnavigate, who enjoy pristine natural areas, often found in. "3rd world neighborhoods". Manage your risk by informing yourself as well as possible, know your limits, adopt right attiude when visiting other parts, cultures, certainly outshooting them wont work.

To clarify my simply using 3rd World in a security context:

It relates to areas in any country where there is no well trained rapid response police, no popular belief in 'rule of law' , very poor standards of health care and education, all enhanced by poverty, escapism drugs, human trafficking and death squads.

Symptoms observed are a dull but hostile look in the eyes of teenagers and young people who see no personal future.

Color or Race has nothing to do with it as proven by how well so called 3rd world immigrants have done, when given an opportunity.

Opportunity and infrastructure is the only separation of numerical advantage.


But that would have taken too long to type out on my smart phone...

[pbmaise]

1. If your boat (this means anyone reading this) was a few slips down from the first assault on a neighboring boat, and it was clear to you that there were multiple assailants with weapons (machetes, knives, guns, rifles, AK47s), what would you do?
2. What would you do if you were unarmed?
3. What would you do if you did have a single gun of some type (a handgun)?
Anyone care to answer those questions?

Yes.
It is easier to think of these things now and I hope I have the strength to do them.

#1 Activate EPIRB. If suddenly several EPIRB signals all activated at same time from a marina in Philippines hopefully responders would realize there was a problem. They might spring some action from Philippine authorities and scramble a helicopter and coast guard to tail the escaping vessel.

#2 Call on channel #16.

#3 If spotted or it looks like my vessel will be boarded then I can use my vessel's 150 hp diesel engine to make boarding it less tempting. Fear is in their minds too. If I went engine on full throttle boarding my vessel would not seem so tempting. Further, engaging it in full forwarded gear likely would cause it to destroy dock, or if at anchor it would swing in a circle, or drag anchor and run off into a reef.

An engine running would give pause to consider since they likely want to get in and out before a vessel tails them...yet here is a very large vessel that appears ready to go. Because it is always ready to go. Further it has radar to track them and 4 means to communicate. Disabling my ship might become a priority. However, they would not know how to shut down the engine.

#4 After engine on, Kick in engine room raw water line. One good kick would break off line and engine room would begin to flood. Also turn on water in kitchen. Now if they looked in engine room they would see the vessel is flooding fast. That would cause some concern.

#5 At full throttle, in about 5 minutes the radiator will boil. Isuzu engineers planned for this. They directed the overflowing radiator onto the belts. I can tell you from experience this makes a monumental noise. An extremely loud screaming noise comes from the engine room. No damage occured to my engine when this was demonstrated by accident.

#6 Hopefully the stress caused by this would reduce the time spent looking in the 100+ different compartments. Over 30 of them are large enough to hide and they dont know where they all are.

I would not know when it was safe to come out until after the engine seized.

If I had a gun I would not use it. If this was night, running lights and deck lights on. That is just a wave of the hand on circuit breakers. Similar lights off below deck. I dont think I would have time to stereo system on.

....
An alternate thought is to drop the mast. That is a bit too Hollywood since it would only be useful if the fallen mast blocked their exit from the marina.

Dropping the mast just takes a sharp bread knife across my Dyneema lines.
....

My final thought is to activate a booby trap. Or have something that explodes to create a large sound like a bomb. It is not very hard to make something that can be simply kicked into the water while being dragged off the boat. Of course something water activated would need to be planned carefully so rain isn't a factor.
.....
An alternative to the engine is to set the cockpit on fire. I already keep 70% alcohol on hand at the ready and need just to soak one coushion. This would give pause since not many would want to jump onto a ship in flames.
.....

Note: When I am sailing in certain areas, the qualifications of my Filipino crew are rather unusual. That I will not talk too much about, however, every port I take them all locals assume they are professional body guards. I wonder why? Further it is so inexpensive to have men like this aboard I wonder why others do not.

[pbmaise]

Dale wrote " West side of Palawan is considered very safe yet last year there was a reported but unsuccessful pirate/terrorist attack there."

Dale I sailed that coast in 2013 and 2014 and am located on Palawan now. I have not heard of this. Any reference? There was in 2013 an incident with Catherine and two Germans who stayed too long in the wrong remote area. Long enough to draw attention and have a party come across the Sulu sea from Jolo Jolo to nab the pair.

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by pbmaise

Dale wrote " West side of Palawan is considered very safe yet last year there was a reported but unsuccessful pirate/terrorist attack there."

Dale I sailed that coast in 2013 and 2014 and am located on Palawan now. I have not heard of this. Any reference? There was in 2013 an incident with Catherine and two Germans who stayed too long in the wrong remote area. Long enough to draw attention and have a party come across the Sulu sea from Jolo Jolo to nab the pair.

On 26 April 2014 two German Nationals were kidnapped off Palawan, the Philippines. Stefan Viktor Okonek and Herike Diesen were taken from their yacht, M/Y "Catherine".
The empty yacht was found by fishermen on April 26, 2014 off Bataraza, Palawan.
According to a state college professor, Octavio Dinampo of the Mindanao State University (MSU) in Sulu, his informants confirmed that the Germans
were being held by Abu Sayyaf (ASG) in Sulu province.
The ASG allegedly used a speedboat owned by ASG leader, Idang Susukan, to kidnap the Germans.
According to reports they have been moved between safe houses on the island.
According to Prof Dinampo they are held with European birdwatchers Elwold Horn and Lorenzo Vinciguerra who were kidnapped in Panglima Sugala, Tawi-Tawi on 31 January 2012.

➥ http://www.suritec.co.za/Suritec_Pir...t_May_2014.pdf

[alansmith]

PB, your actions remind me of the movie "Raiders of the Lost Arc" with Harrison Ford. Do u remember the scene where he is being chased and a huge Arabic man is facing him swinging one of these huge (for lack of knowledge) Sultan style swords. Harrison, if you know the background to this scene, had been suffering with a bad bout of diarrhea and was too weak, literally, to do the fight scene. So, he convinced the director to allow himself to do it impromptu....he pulled his pistol and shot the swordsman. Your ideas are all good ones. But they are merely annoyance and could get a spray of bullets. These men are trained to at least paramilitary standards. Do u think that they haven't discussed dozens of different scenarios before their attack? What to do if someone does this display to distract or confuse..."leader says, in whatever dialect they use...but pretty much "hose 'em down." I don't know if you have military training or understand the implications of fire power of what an automatic military grade rifle can do. Most of these men would be carrying at least 4 banana clips, hand grenades, and possibly even something like RPGs for anyone attempting to follow. They probably also had communication gear monitoring police, coast guard, and yacht channels.


Don't get yourself killed and others killed with heroics. Slip away and thank God that on this day it wasn't your boat and your arse on that speed boat jetting off to no one knows where. As they say...never bring a knife to a gun fight..or something like that. If I was group leader and you tried this engine thing I would just tell Jose, Rodney, and Ramon to empty a clip each into your boat. Also, in real combat scenarios when the men are a little bit excited they just spray everywhere in that direction. You saw the pictures of the marina. How many lives would be endangered by at least a hundred bullets being sprayed in your general direction? How many boats do you think an AK47 round would go through before dissipating it's kinetic energy?


It is not a sign of cowardice to recognize superior firepower. It is a sign of intelligence. There is nothing that you can do with epirbs, engines, half ass bombs, dismasting, radio calls for help, flash lights, or flare guns. Their mission was to be in the yacht club and out within 5-10 minutes. They knew where to land. They knew who was on each boat at that outward part of the marina harbor. They knew where the police were and where the nearest military were. These people aren't stupid. Give them the credit they deserve. When men want to go Rambo....it is a noble idea...but is it worth getting not only yourself killed...but multiple fatalities around you...it is a very real possibility. You stand almost a zero chance of defeating their purpose and almost a 100 percent chance of ending up dead along with the other poor suckers who were unfortunate to be caught up as collateral damage due to reactionary measure ill advised by Mr. Rambo.


Look I am not belittling you or thinking you are not right to want to protect yourself against bad men. This thing going on down there is a war. You are not part of that war between the Muslim and NPA versus PI Govt. You are simply a pawn that they can use to accomplish humiliation, gather monies, create financial havoc for tourism, and prove that they can accomplish their political agendas in spite of not having tanks, jets, gunships, helicopters, and thousands of men hunting them. That is how they fight. You are not part of that culture, nor am I. We can not think like them because we were not raised like them. You are on their soil when you visit down there. So, IMO, you are fair game. I bet they see it this way to.


You have a very large trimaran. To someone like a day worker doing construction work down there. Maybe you unload several hundred bags of cement in the morning heat. In the afternoon you are mixing mud and carrying cinderblocks up the gangways, in the heat, while a building goes up. You are one of the lucky ones who has a job. Maybe you get 10 dollars a day for back breaking work. If this guy is lucky maybe he makes 3-4K in a whole year and can only do this hard manual labor for 15 years before his back is destroyed. What do you think he sees when he sees you sitting there on your lovely 60 foot boat? I would guess that your solar panels, wind generator, controller, and water maker represent 7 or more years of bust your arse work for him. Now if you were him, and you had a part time job for NPA or Muslim paramilitary squad, would you not see that yacht as a money maker?
That is the way it is down there.


Let me share one more story for you. This is a true story that happened in Manila to one of my coworkers who I know very well for at least 15 years. His niece worked for the mayor of one of the suburbs. She was in her early 30's, married, and with two young children. She was college educated and worked as the secretary of this mayor. She was average build and average looks. The mayor's wife thought the this young woman and her husband were having an affair. She hired a killer for 50 dollars American and had this young innocent woman killed. For 5o bucks! They caught the killer. The mayor's wife disappeared and has never been arraigned or stood trial. It has been 3 years. No one knows where the mayor's wife is. That is how cheap life is down there and how complex it is to prosecute. No one is talking and no one ever will. So, how much do you think your life is worth down there? You are simply a goat in the raptor's territory...think of the scene in Jurasic Park...
Yachting in places with known paramilitary activity, ransom, beheadings, hijacking, and other things like it may never see one iota of danger...EVER....and then again one day.....

[Pelagic]

For anyone contemplating cruising the Philippines I recommend reading this:

http://bookspics.com/ebooks/culture-...e-3rd-edition/

Filipinos are great mimics of all things Western, which often fool people into believing they think same.

They have a different set of behavioral expectations that visitors must be sensitive to.

During problems and misunderstandings... Many foreigners mistake their formal politeness, respect and good humor as a weakness, but they are a strong proud complicated nation that deserves deeper understanding as to why they often purposely diffuse a tense situation with humor.

I truly love the Philippines.