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Old 28-09-2015, 15:34   #106
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Re: Pirate attack Phillipines ?

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Thanks, but no thanks. if I'm ever your neighbour in a similar situation, please don't go Rambo on my account.

I'm ex-infantry with many years of command experience and I'm firmly in the Weavis camp. To reduce casualties, you would be the first to go down.
Ex-military here and very much agree. I will never forget my first combat situation where people who thought they where hardcore quickly became the most paralyzed with fear, some unable to keep from wetting themselves.

No amount of polishing your gun and reading survival magazines while day dreaming Rambo scenarios will ever condition you to react properly. And this is also a situation where training would absolutely dictate you not fight under the circumstances that played out that night.
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Old 28-09-2015, 15:43   #107
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Re: Pirate attack Phillipines ?

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That was an interesting article to read.

The info and quotes about Duterte and his POV is interesting. As I mentioned before, I have been trying to learn about Davao area, so thanks for posting in this thread and adding the links.
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Old 28-09-2015, 15:53   #108
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Re: Pirate attack Phillipines ?



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Old 28-09-2015, 16:38   #109
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Re: Pirate attack Phillipines ?

RoknRich, man, that was good. You get extra points for that.
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Old 28-09-2015, 16:59   #110
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Re: Pirate attack Phillipines ?

There is but a very fine line between bravery and stupidity.

For those of us, with military backgrounds, who collectively and instinctively would make the decision to NOT engage the attackers, I think this video might shed some light on what Officer training for command is like, and what would motivate a person to refrain from interaction despite having an extensive and superior ability for combat than the kidnappers.

The most brutal and demanding course physically and mentally I have ever had the misfortune to undertake. Any one of the female officers could cause permanent damage to an attacker and out think a person at lightening speed. Most cadets have a degree to get in. The physical demands are unreal.

The video does not show all of the training. Those with specialist skills have extra tutorage in their respective field. All British Officers have to do this. The Officers that are accepted, are those that, in addition to the physical requirements, can demonstrate situational assessment and leadership skills to an extraordinary level.

A soldier is a person who does not ignore reality and will do what is necessary in the situation and not believe his preferred outcome will happen because he/she wants it so.

A hat tip to the sailors in the marina that did the right thing in the face of overwhelming odds, as heartbreaking and frustrating as it was to be helpless. Better to live and fight another day and find the missing personnel than be killed in a doomed to fail rescue attempt.

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Old 28-09-2015, 17:00   #111
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Re: Pirate attack Phillipines ?

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Cap Erict3, I am not a whiner or a pisser of my pants type of guy either. When faced with 11 men with automatic weapons and you have a steak knife or a flare gun, what do you propose for not getting yourself killed but anyone else in the general vicinity of yourself killed by interceding? Because they will spray the whole area if they go mental...u know that, right?


The men who took down that 911 flight knew everyone on that plane stood a good chance to die. But they also understood that several hundred people were a small price compared to what the two planes had exacted from the twin towers. So, operationally speaking, Cap Erict, what would you have done to save everyone from these 11 men? I am curious how you would have saved everyone. I want to know exactly what you would have done to accomplish that.

Pardon the old man ferocity.

I carry a few innocuous pistols for close work on my boat and would not plan further than the first shot. I rage at those that prey on the helpless.

A lone man that walks calmly while others panic can make a surprising difference.

Put my loved ones with me and my tactics will change.




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Old 28-09-2015, 17:21   #112
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Re: Pirate attack Phillipines ?

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...... As I mentioned before, I have been trying to learn about Davao area, so thanks for posting in this thread and adding the links.
Steady...It is also interesting to look at the whole (non- Christian) coral triangle region from a development point of view.

Research the marketing efforts primarily funded by the Sultan of Brunei under;
BIMP-EAGA to see how conflicted they are to attract tourism and foreign investment.

The challenge is to be more open... yet not offend their Muslim Sharia Law.


http://www.adb.org/countries/subregi...rams/bimp-eaga

http://www.bimp-eaga.org/

http://www.bruneibay.net/SailBIMP-EAGA/
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Old 28-09-2015, 17:59   #113
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Re: Pirate attack Phillipines ?

Fair enough Cap. This world is going to heck in a hand basket. I understand your anger.
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Old 28-09-2015, 18:01   #114
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Re: Pirate attack Phillipines ?

Weavis, tx for the clip. The Brits have a long history of excellent military leadership. Of course we, Yanks, had to help u out a couple of times...but that's what brothers are for...smile....
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Old 28-09-2015, 18:02   #115
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Re: Pirate attack Phillipines ?

[QUOTE=weavis;1925238]There is but a very fine line between bravery and stupidity.



For those of us, with military backgrounds, who collectively and instinctively would make the decision to NOT engage the attackers, I think this video might shed some light on what Officer training for command is like, and what would motivate a person to refrain from interaction despite having an extensive and superior ability for combat than the kidnappers.



.......



A hat tip to the sailors in the marina that did the right thing in the face of overwhelming odds, as heartbreaking and frustrating as it was to be helpless. Better to live and fight another day and find the missing personnel than be killed in a doomed to fail rescue attempt.


/QUOTE]





Out of the 11 how many have had weapons practice? Have a clue how to field strip the weapon? If they have cartridges are they allowed to chamber one?

I have dealt with rag tag types and there is a lot of bluster and cruelty, dropping of loaded weapons with the safety off and entire security teams than ran into the bush at the first sound of gunfire.

I won't regale you with tales of combat. It's enough that I know where I have been and how far I will go.

Every situation is different. I cannot say what my actions would have been because I was not present. I can say that practicing dropping to ur knees is unlikely to dissuade future violent kidnappings.


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Old 28-09-2015, 18:28   #116
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Re: Pirate attack Phillipines ?

I honestly cannot see what is to be gained by rehashing aggressive/passive tactics when attacked..... So far...no one has been killed and that is a positive which I pray will end with the safe release of those taken.

What does interest me is what our community thinks of the future of Samal marina?

Would you make that a destination?
Would you keep your boat there?
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Old 28-09-2015, 20:07   #117
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Re: Pirate attack Phillipines ?

Pelagic, by all accounts a nice marina and run well and cared about. The problem mentally for most, I suspect, would be it's proximity of being "in range" for this deeply disturbing event. To be fair about it is there any real place left on this planet that is safe? The second thing that comes to my mind is the trend up or down on increase or decreased "scary" activity...and which way do you think it will be in the next couple of years? That is why I feel bad for the PI owners who have invested so much effort to design, build, and administer this facility.
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Old 28-09-2015, 20:39   #118
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Re: Pirate attack Phillipines ?

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......To be fair about it is there any real place left on this planet that is safe? The second thing that comes to my mind is the trend up or down on increase or decreased "scary" activity...and which way do you think it will be in the next couple of years?
Those Alan are i think the key points.

Craziness and disenchantment abounds everywhere, so when traveling we pick our desired location, get to know the risks and adjust to changing threat levels.

This incident has embarrassed the PI and I agree with Gary, that they will make it as safe as possible.... but will a heavily guarded compound instill fear?... You find the same in many marinas like in Acapulco.

My decision will be to go there and show support. Encourage the owners to create a sailing scholarship program for local kids (as we successfully did in Puerto Galera) to win over the hearts, minds and dreams of all the local families.

As I mentioned before, upcoming elections are a period of uncertainty and political terrorism, but the PI has a booming economy and I hope that will help to promote a peaceful trend after the elections.
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Old 28-09-2015, 21:30   #119
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Re: Pirate attack Phillipines ?

Please forward this open letter to Manila Rescue Co-ordination Centre, Headquarters, Philippine Coast Guard.
Hello, This past week 11 heavily armed men entered a Philippine marina on Samal Island near Davao. Hostages were taken the attackers at ample time to flee by sea with no intervention. One person reported trying to reach coast guard on VHF on channel 16.

Question: At the time of the incident, how many coast guard officials were on duty?

Question: Was channel 16 being monitored, and can the call from a typical VHF radio aboard a sailboat be heard from a monitoring location.

Question: Approximately when did coast guard learn of the attack. I.E. 20 minutes after it began at local time ___.

Question: How long did it take coast guard officials to go to sea? Was a vessel already in the water?

Question: Was there any call to obtain assistance from others. When did they begin to assist searching for fleeing vessel(s)?

Question: Was a helicopter used to try and find the fleeing vessel. When was it airborne and could they communicate to any coast guard vessels?

Question: Had one or more yacht owners activated an EPIRB device, how long would it have taken for notice of a problem to reach the Davao coast guard? What would they have done?

Question: Is there any planning on the part of the coast guard to anticipate where problems may occur?

Question: Did the coast guard believe such an attack may have been possible? If so, were the owners and manager of the marina informed?

We have noticed some good changes in coast guard attitudes to visiting yacht owners after the 2014 kidnapping off the Island of Palawan of two German sailors. We also have noted more active involvement to keep yacht owners from traveling to certain areas. Thank you.

Question: In light of this most recent event, what went wrong?

Question: If a similar incident took place in one of the other areas there are many foreign yachts, please advise for the following areas
A. Cebu Yacht Club Mactan
B. Bonbonon Bay Negros
C. Abanico Yacht Club, Palawan
D. Puerto Galera, Mindoro
E. Coron
F. Boracay

For each of the above areas
1. Is channel 16 monitored by coast guard at a location that can be heard from a sailboat under attack?
2. Is their a local coast guard office manned 24/7?
3. Are enough men kept on duty to give chase?
4. Does the coast guard have a vessel ready and in the water?
5. How long does it take to have armed men in a vessel at these locations?
6. Does the coast guard coordinate with any helicopter that can observe and communicate what is going on? How long does it take to get a helicopter into the air?

I apologize that these are difficult questions. Safety of foreign vessels in the Philippines is a challenge and more so owing to the fact many owners are highly independent and do not believe problems can happen to them.

I have posted these questions on the internet on cruisers forum.com. I look forward to posting your answers soon.

Regard
Philip Maise
Puerto Princesa Bay
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Old 29-09-2015, 00:28   #120
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Re: Pirate attack Phillipines ?

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Capn Eric said:

Out of the 11 how many have had weapons practice? Have a clue how to field strip the weapon? If they have cartridges are they allowed to chamber one?

I have dealt with rag tag types and there is a lot of bluster and cruelty, dropping of loaded weapons with the safety off and entire security teams than ran into the bush at the first sound of gunfire.

I won't regale you with tales of combat. It's enough that I know where I have been and how far I will go.

Every situation is different. I cannot say what my actions would have been because I was not present. I can say that practicing dropping to ur knees is unlikely to dissuade future violent kidnappings.

.
Its not about dissuading 'future violent kidnappings'. Its about saving as many lives in the present situation as possible. This is not politics, this is survival.

Please post a schedule of where you are located and I and others will head in the opposite direction............
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