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Old 15-10-2015, 14:23   #151
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Re: Pirate attack Phillipines ?

pi, if you are wealthy expect attempts and be prepared. Business owners are extorted and know how to navigate those waters. But a foreigner, in southern PI, who doesn't know all of the in-and-outs....unbelievable risk.
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Old 16-10-2015, 00:09   #152
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Re: Pirate attack Phillipines ?

It is true the Italian was not a sailor, however sailors have been discussing this kidnapping in a different light. Unlike tourists or a cruising yachtie, this was an expat who established a business in the Philippines. It is one thing to scare away the former and entirely a higher level of seriousness to scare away expats. Expats will think twice of investing their life savings and years of work to found a business here in the Philippines.

Retail operators in general are exposed to some personal risks from elements in their community. Certainly shop owners around the world get robbed and harmed in all countries. What makes this so important is that ransom money is not simply used as some ill gotten gain. Instead it is used to fund terrorists and to continue a cycle of violence.

I found another more recent article on this particular kidnapping that says police have identified the primary kidnapper as being from a local gang.

Oct 10, 2015

A suspect in the kidnapping of Italian former priest Rolando del Torchio was arrested in Pagadian City Friday night while a suspected member of the Abu Sayyaf allegedly involved in the 2002 kidnapping of Jehovah’s Witnesses was captured in Zamboanga City Saturday morning, police said.

At the same time, Senior Superintendent Cleve Taboso, spokesman of the unit tasked to recover Del Torchio, 56, said they had identified the kidnapper's boss, known as "Commander Red Eye," and four of his relatives based on closed-circuit TV footage of the abduction.
The footage shows armed men shoving their captive as well as several restaurant patrons out of the pizzeria's door as they flee the scene.

He said Red Eye had been arrested for another abduction in 2014 but managed to post bail.

Taboso said he did not believe the gang had taken him to the extremist stronghold of Sulu, where any rescue would be more difficult.

Many smaller kidnapping groups have often taken their hostages to the island of Jolo, some 400 kilometres from Dipolog, to hand them over to the Abu Sayyaf who ransom them off for huge sums.

****
The good news in this story is eventually some of these "masterminds" are being caught. The bad news is the justice system in this case released someone back onto the street a terrorist that should have been locked up.
****
Early this week a tryke driver was remarking about the giant reward money awaiting the informant that turned in the two Reyes brothers. Money helped motivate the informant to provide detailed information as to their hideout in Phuket.

So little money was seen as a giant sum here. That leads me to question why reward money has not been offered in these cases.

The "big money" locals here saw to turn in a former provincial governor and a former mayor was about what I paid to remodel my bathroom and resurface my swimming pool. Specifically it was 2,000,000 peso a head. That is less than $50,000 USD a head.

So what do you think guys....

If we offer 20,000,000 peso for information that leads to convictions of the masterminds behind these kidnappings, and 1,000,000 per conviction of grunt workers, would the waters of the Philippines be safer?
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Old 16-10-2015, 01:00   #153
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Re: Pirate attack Phillipines ?

Alan Smith
In 2014 in the US waters there were 610 reported boating deaths, and over 4,064 accidents reported to US Coast Guard. The greatest risk in US waters isn't failure of the vessel nor weather. It is alcohol and drunk boating (108 deaths). I am unaware of a single visiting yachtie who died in Filipino waters in this same period from other than natural causes while on shore. I.E Older sailors dying of old age.

So if we are going to discuss places of unbelievable risks, lets not forget US waters. Further how many sailors were killed in the US while on shore in cities that we consider to be safe, yet in reality are less safe than most of the Philippines?
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Old 16-10-2015, 18:04   #154
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Re: Pirate attack Phillipines ?

The bottom line risk statistic would I think relate to Intentional Murders per 100, 000 population.
USA =5
PHILIPPINES =9

Data worldwide found here

http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/VC.IHR.PSRC.P5

This lists the worst 25 which the Philippines do not even come close, but a number of Caribbean nations make the worst 25.

http://list25.com/25-countries-with-...-in-the-world/
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Old 16-10-2015, 20:39   #155
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Re: Pirate attack Phillipines ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pbmaise View Post
Alan Smith
In 2014 in the US waters there were 610 reported boating deaths, and over 4,064 accidents reported to US Coast Guard. The greatest risk in US waters isn't failure of the vessel nor weather. It is alcohol and drunk boating (108 deaths). I am unaware of a single visiting yachtie who died in Filipino waters in this same period from other than natural causes while on shore. I.E Older sailors dying of old age.

So if we are going to discuss places of unbelievable risks, lets not forget US waters. Further how many sailors were killed in the US while on shore in cities that we consider to be safe, yet in reality are less safe than most of the Philippines?
So what was the cause of death for the 502 souls that didn't perish in a boat accident because of the alcohol? This is an astounding number. And Id be interested to know how many of these were sailors as apposed to motor boaters. Finally how many of the sailors perished because of sinking boats or rough seas? Does the Coast Guard give more of a breakdown on these boating deaths?
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Old 16-10-2015, 21:35   #156
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Re: Pirate attack Phillipines ?

[So what do you think guys....

If we offer 20,000,000 peso for information that leads to convictions of the masterminds behind these kidnappings, and 1,000,000 per conviction of grunt workers, would the waters of the Philippines be safer?]

After spending much time in the PI, I wouldn't offer money for anything. Who would you offer it to? The government, the army, local constabulary? My fear would be creating another layer of corruption. I would rather hire a certain mercenary group to go in and extract those folks. Don't know if it would be possible, but would trust them more than the locals or gov. Maybe I'm wrong here and things have changed.
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Old 16-10-2015, 23:33   #157
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Re: Pirate attack Phillipines ?

Going walkabout
Yes the number of deaths in boating is high. Google this term

Recreational Boating Statistics 2014

To find full report about 5.5 MB pdf file.

In brief, yes other deaths broken down further than I list here:
108 Alcohol
7 Drugs
23 Speeding
26 No one looking
1 No navigation lights
14 violation navigation rules
82 operator distracted or inexperienced
1 operator view blocked
3 turned too sharply at high speed
2 started in gear
4 improper anchoring
59 vessel overloaded, unbalanced, people hanging off edge
27 boat or equipment failure like hull breach, engine problem, mechanical failure
112 Environmental factors, waves, dams, reefs, "hazardous" waters
141 other, unkown, medical condition
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Old 17-10-2015, 01:37   #158
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Re: Pirate attack Phillipines ?

Pelogical

Compare BVI versus Philippines in murders per 100,000

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List..._homicide_rate

The reason people think BVI is "safe" is compared to neighboring countries the rate is low.

The Philippines is among the world's safest places like Singapore and Japan. Even Malaysia is about on par with Canada. Therefore, the rate in Philippines appears high.

Yet both BVI and Philippine rate is nearly the same 8.4 and 8.8.

How anyone can go to places like St. Thomas at 52.6 is beyond me.

No matter how you compare the Philippines, it is still one of the safest places to travel.

Keeping it safe and making it safer by catching the ring leaders is key.

Tom Lewis...
Reward money goes to whomever the police say turned in the critical evidence used in the trial that gained the conviction. The purpose of that money has been met if a conviction of the ring leader is obtained. It then becomes something future ring leaders can think about before making plans. If they know what they plan means a reward to someone that rats on them they may have second thoughts. These tiny rewards in our eyes are large enough for the informant to have his entire family relocated to another island. The informant goes under an established witness protection program. Yes there is a risk for becoming a rat. However, many a potential informant could be busy snapping pictures on a cell phone when pretending to be doing text messages.
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Old 17-10-2015, 01:46   #159
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Re: Pirate attack Phillipines ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pbmaise View Post
Pelogical

Compare BVI versus Philippines in murders per 100,000

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List..._homicide_rate

The reason people think BVI is "safe" is compared to neighboring countries the rate is low.

The Philippines is among the world's safest places like Singapore and Japan. Even Malaysia is about on par with Canada. Therefore, the rate in Philippines appears high.

Yet both BVI and Philippine rate is nearly the same 8.4 and 8.8.

How anyone can go to places like St. Thomas at 52.6 is beyond me.

No matter how you compare the Philippines, it is still one of the safest places to travel.

Keeping it safe and making it safer by catching the ring leaders is key.

Tom Lewis...
Reward money goes to whomever the police say turned in the critical evidence used in the trial that gained the conviction. The purpose of that money has been met if a conviction of the ring leader is obtained. It then becomes something future ring leaders can think about before making plans. If they know what they plan means a reward to someone that rats on them they may have second thoughts. These tiny rewards in our eyes are large enough for the informant to have his entire family relocated to another island. The informant goes under an established witness protection program. Yes there is a risk for becoming a rat. However, many a potential informant could be busy snapping pictures on a cell phone when pretending to be doing text messages.
I think you meant to say, PARTS of the Philippines are safe to travel. For me it is Cebu up.

It would be naive to think all the Philippines Islands are safe for a non Filipino and nominally Christian, AND/OR Rich.
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Old 17-10-2015, 07:43   #160
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Re: Pirate attack Phillipines ?

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I admit I upset sailors when I claim I nodded my head politely and didn't disagree when they made claims that Davao was "safe". The fact of the matter was I am American and in part considered Davao to be unsafe...which is exactly what it proved to be.

Some now say the marina in Davao is now safe after all the steps taken. Some claim it is now really safe. I again nod my head politely and don't disagree..however this time at least they can point to the new measures as evidence they are safer.

Yes, once South of Davao on Mindanao and all Islands South of Mindanao are sadly no go areas. Further there are parts of Palawan that are no linger areas. i.e. One shouldnt drop anchor for two weeks in remote areas of Southern Palawan either. However, dropping anchor for a night should be fine. It takes time to plan an attack that comes from far away and if someone is in the area less than a day they should have zero worries.

It is both sad and good to speak of kidnappings here as planned undertakings. It is sad to think there are men capable and evil enough to do this. It is good that the undertakings are not random nor spur of the moment. This isn't like Somalia where you are attacked sailing a few hundred miles off the coast by pirates sitting and waiting in ambush.

Mexico according to a guide I read had 1600 kidnappings last year.

If you are coming up from Borneo a stop at the mostly Muslim Island named Balabac is still considered safe. It is also considered safe to make one day stops in Brooks Point, Roxas, Narra. Or just sail up to Puerto Princesa direct.

I used to claim the entire West Coast of Palawan is safe. However, if coming from the South, I no longer recommend even short stops at the Southern town of Tagbita. I was there in 2013, 2014, and August 2015 and had very nice visits. I was there maximum 2 nights.

It is information I learned in September 2015 that changed my mind. No incident has occurred. However, based on what I heard, I recommend no overnight stops until about 30 km south of Quezon area. Visit Tabon Caves. The area on the map may say South Bario or Sawmill.

Note:
Before calling one area of the Philippines safe and another unsafe....we should also take into account weather. Tonight Luzon is about to be pounded by a typhoon packing 150 knot winds. It is like the 4rth to hit Luzon this year. Here is Wind Guru gust forecast numbers for Subic Bay:

44 48 51 51 50 50 46 44 43 42 41 38 36 37 35 34 31 28
As you can see Subic isnt going to get the highest winds, however these are still plenty high.

Meanwhile Puerto Princesa Palawan has a highest wind forecast of 18 maximum wind gusts. Tonight for certain I would rather be on Palawan.
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Old 17-10-2015, 08:12   #161
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Re: Pirate attack Phillipines ?

One of the reasons that I do no go by international polls, is simply because the facts of occurrences in matters of safety cannot be accurate. I am pretty sure many details of murders and killings are NOT included from the southern Islands in the collation of the figures.
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Old 17-10-2015, 10:15   #162
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Re: Pirate attack Phillipines ?

Phillip, thanks for all your information on PI. I agree with many of the things u stated about safety and perceptions.

Filipinos are wonderful friendly people. Worked with them most of my adult life in a clinical laboratory setting. Lived in PI only two years and Guam for a couple of more. I know the people well. Travelled there as recently as 2013.

Murder statistics were quoted comparing BVI to PI. These facts are not being disputed. I am addressing the context of those statistics though. Much of the murders going on in BVI are turf wars among young black on black drug territorial disputes. Their may be an occasional yachtie getting snuffed. Do not know. But I can not remember any instances of 3-4 yachties being kidnapped in BVI, or Carib., for ransom by Muslim militants, can you? That is the thing about southern PI, which you readily conceded about Palawan, points south of Davao, and other areas of southern PI.

I quoted my own stories of murder in PI for 50 dollars by a jealous wife of a local mayor done to one of my coworker's family member. Hotel chef slain because she reported one of her subordinates to hotel management for theft of beef and lady was fired. They found the chef slain on the hotel property 2 weeks later. Filipinos can run very hot when "face" loss occurs.

Phillip you are smart and cautious...that is how I meant it. I think the PI islands are lush and beautiful. I love the people and much of the culture. It is just freaking scary to be a yachtie in the s. PI and know that you are a possible lifetime financial windfall for the right captors. Just sayin'
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Old 17-10-2015, 11:43   #163
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Re: Pirate attack Phillipines ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pbmaise View Post

Note:
Before calling one area of the Philippines safe and another unsafe....we should also take into account weather. Tonight Luzon is about to be pounded by a typhoon packing 150 knot winds. It is like the 4rth to hit Luzon this year. Here is Wind Guru gust forecast numbers for Subic Bay:

44 48 51 51 50 50 46 44 43 42 41 38 36 37 35 34 31 28
As you can see Subic isnt going to get the highest winds, however these are still plenty high.

Meanwhile Puerto Princesa Palawan has a highest wind forecast of 18 maximum wind gusts. Tonight for certain I would rather be on Palawan.
Me too.... As it has been upgraded to a Super Typhoon

Subic is going to be miserable.....we already are getting frequent outer band blasts

But the SBYC is really well protected.....an inner harbor within an inner harbour within a very narrow entrance Bay

We never feel any swell at the marina or even waves...just spume at the worst.

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Old 17-10-2015, 21:39   #164
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Re: Pirate attack Phillipines ?

This typhoon, that made landfall today packing gusts of 160 knots, will be deadly mostly due to the second typhoon that is going to hold it in place over Luzon. Winds and rain will batter Luzon for days. As much as 60-80 inches of rain will fall in parts during this typhoon. It will be days before some areas can be reached owing to expected mudslides, bridges out etc.

Meanwhile if you missed the other Filipine related story...the search is now called off for Europa. The story is in Scuttlebutt thread. This sailboat left Hong Kong and was expected in Subic around Oct 5 2015. On Saturday Oct 2 they set off their EPIRB but efforts to find them turned up empty handed. 5 lost. Robyn Wyatt, British, 2nd British, 1 each American, Canadian, Filipino. Vessel 18.2 meter Oceanis monohull. Storm also claimed many Filipino fishermen.
Anyone have names?www.usno.navy.mil/NOOC/nmfc-ph/RSS/jtwc/warnings/wp2415.gif
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Old 18-10-2015, 02:34   #165
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Re: Pirate attack Phillipines ?

Spent the morning at the boat in Subic.

For those wondering what it is like at SBYC yacht basin....photo taken this morning....occasional spume sprouts, but mostly flat waters
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